Help troubleshoot the electrical issue

[funkym0nk]

To start my bike has been idling a little longer than I would have liked.
2008 Ninja 250r
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*At first there was an issue with the battery maintaining charge and I got a charger but the battery was not maintaining its charge.
*Just got a new battery and charged it but now when I turn the bike on I hear a "click" and bike does not turn on (sounds like a short circuit somehwere at this point)
*New battery does not maintain charge either
*When I jump my bike with my car the bike will turn on with no issues
*Electronics will turn on if connected to the charger.
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Other Symptoms that might are that at times the tachometer would not turn on while the rest of the bike would be running until after a few min of riding

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I checked the main fuses already. From what I have researched I think it might bean issue with the strator and ground wires but not 100% sure how to check that. Not terribly experienced with stuff like this and especially electronics. Any help would be much appreciated

[Ralgha]

A short should (in theory) blow a fuse, sounds like something is drawing power when the bike is switched off. Do you have any mods that use electricity?

[Triple Jim]

It sounds like there might be more than one problem. The battery not staying charged is either a failure of the charging system or something that's draining it when parked, but if you charge it with an external charger, it should then start and run the bike for quite a while.

As Kevin said, a short circuit is a serious thing, and will either blow a fuse, or melt wiring and start fires, and that sort of thing. When you say "I hear a "click" and bike does not turn on", exactly what do you mean? The dash doesn't light up, or it does but the starter motor won't crank the engine, (etc.)?

[sickopsycho]

You can buy a cheap Digital Multimeter at Harbor Freight if you have one in your area. Costs about $6 or if you get it on special you can even get it free with any other purchase. Take it and check battery voltage while the bike is running. Should be 13v or higher at idle, then if you rev it up should go up to like 14v or higher. You can even check for current draw while the bike is off. Set the multimeter to measure amperage then connect the meter in line with the negative post of the battery. Disconnect the negative post, then attach one of the probes from the meter to the battery and the other to the wire that connects to the battery- so you have it in series with the circuit. This will show you whats called "parasitic draw" or what the bike is drawing from the battery when it shouldnt be drawing anything. Let us know what you find, I'm curious! =)

[Triple Jim]

Watch out with the parasitic draw test. You need to have the meter set to read current (amps), and if you have too big a load, like if you accidentally activate the starter, you'll blow the meter fuse, or the meter if it doesn't have an internal fuse. It's best to start with a 12v test lamp first, and it if lights, something is trying to draw a lot of current.

[sickopsycho]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

Watch out with the parasitic draw test. You need to have the meter set to read current (amps), and if you have too big a load, like if you accidentally activate the starter, you'll blow the meter fuse, or the meter if it doesn't have an internal fuse. It's best to start with a 12v test lamp first, and it if lights, something is trying to draw a lot of current.

I was going to mention that, thanks Jim. You should be fine as long as you do the test ONLY with the bike off. Dont try to start or run it while testing. Thanks, Jim!

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by funkym0nk

To start my bike has been idling a little longer than I would have liked.
2008 Ninja 250r
---
*At first there was an issue with the battery maintaining charge and I got a charger but the battery was not maintaining its charge.
*Just got a new battery and charged it but now when I turn the bike on I hear a "click" and bike does not turn on (sounds like a short circuit somehwere at this point)
*New battery does not maintain charge either
*When I jump my bike with my car the bike will turn on with no issues
*Electronics will turn on if connected to the charger.
---
Other Symptoms that might are that at times the tachometer would not turn on while the rest of the bike would be running until after a few min of riding

--
I checked the main fuses already. From what I have researched I think it might bean issue with the strator and ground wires but not 100% sure how to check that. Not terribly experienced with stuff like this and especially electronics. Any help would be much appreciated

I suspect the regulator my be a problem also. Get a meter and run through the troubleshooting tests according to the service manual.

[Motofool]

Welcome, Miguel !!!
When using your car to start the bike up, keep the engine of the car off.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Electrical_%26_Lighting

Your charging system has a problem.

[funkym0nk]

Awesome thank you so much guys! Yeah there is harbor freight down the street. Im going to try to get the bike ready before MotoGP rolls into town

[highvoltj]

In my opinion, you should NEVER use a car battery to jump start your bike!
Due to the higher amperage level of the car battery, this can cause damage to the rectifier and other components in your bikes ignition system.
If your battery is draining, there is a short somewhere. I would chase the wiring harness and check for frays or chaffing in the harness where a conductive wire may be grounding on the frame...also...bad ignition switch?

[Triple Jim]

Actually Jon, high current capability ("amperage") does not automatically cause higher currents to flow. Voltage is what gets current flowing. A battery capable of producing 1,000 amps will not put more current into the motorcycle than the motorcycle battery itself, assuming both have a 12v terminal voltage.

One must use great caution when connecting any battery for jump starting any vehicle, however. Misplaced or reversed connections can melt copper wires, damage the components you mentioned, and burn skin very quickly.

[highvoltj]

Thanks for the "enlightenment" Jim, I have just had issue's in the past working on other's older bikes after they had attempted jump-starting from a car battery...thought it might help...diagnosing electrical issue's is always a "tricky endeavor"

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by highvoltj

In my opinion, you should NEVER use a car battery to jump start your bike!
Due to the higher amperage level of the car battery, this can cause damage to the rectifier and other components in your bikes ignition system.
If your battery is draining, there is a short somewhere. I would chase the wiring harness and check for frays or chaffing in the harness where a conductive wire may be grounding on the frame...also...bad ignition switch?

A dirty ignition switch can lead to all sorts of problems. On some bikes it's fairly easy to disassemble the ignition switch and clean it up with contact cleaner. Nope, I'm not pulling my Ninja ignition switch to examine it. :-)

Bill

[Ralgha]

Nothing wrong with jumping a bike from a car. The reason you shouldn't have the car running is not because the car will deliver too much current, but because of the differences in the generated electricity in the two vehicles.

Cars use alternators to produce AC, it is rectified to DC and smoothed by the battery. Car electrical systems are designed around this.

Many bikes still use generators, producing DC, it doesn't need to be rectified (but the battery still smooths it). Some use alternators, and need to be rectified.

The difference is that the car alternator is much stronger, and the battery(s) may not smooth the output of that alternator enough for the bike's electrical system to handle, thus potentially producing voltage spikes that could damage it.

Current is not relevant, the bike won't pull more than it needs. Just don't short the cables together (this goes for jumping any vehicles).

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Ralgha

Nothing wrong with jumping a bike from a car. The reason you shouldn't have the car running is not because the car will deliver too much current, but because of the differences in the generated electricity in the two vehicles.

Cars use alternators to produce AC, it is rectified to DC and smoothed by the battery. Car electrical systems are designed around this.

Many bikes still use generators, producing DC, it doesn't need to be rectified (but the battery still smooths it). Some use alternators, and need to be rectified.

The difference is that the car alternator is much stronger, and the battery(s) may not smooth the output of that alternator enough for the bike's electrical system to handle, thus potentially producing voltage spikes that could damage it.

Current is not relevant, the bike won't pull more than it needs. Just don't short the cables together (this goes for jumping any vehicles).

Maybe a 1951 Indian had a generator but the Ninja has an alternator AND a rectifier. I think I agree with your premise that jumping a bike off a car is OK but not with the car's engine running. I'm not trying to be a smart a$$, I just don't want readers to be confused.

Bill

[InvisiBill]

http://www.shadowriders.org/faq/jumpstarting.html explains why you shouldn't jumpstart from a running car. As has been stated here, it's due to differences in the two vehicles' charging systems. Basically the car's alternator keeps trying to pump out more power while the bike's regulator keeps trying to dump the extra power. A car battery by itself is the same as a Ninja battery, just with more capacity before you'll run it dead.


Back to the OP's issue... Usually clicking when you're trying to start it means a low battery. There's just enough power to flip the relay/solenoid and make it click, but not enough power to actually turn the starter motor. Frequently the lights will also go out when it's clicking.

Since it's a new battery, that itself shouldn't be the problem, though you'll occasionally get a DOA lemon. If the battery is good, you should be able to charge it externally, then have it work properly when you put it in the bike. If a good battery loses charge while sitting, you've got something unexpected drawing power (sometimes accessory circuits don't turn off with the ignition switch, if you've added any electric farkles). If it loses charge while using the bike, then the charging system isn't actually charging the battery like it should.

Also note that a bad connection can result in poor power flow. If you have a starter wire or a big ground that's not making a good connection, it could act like a battery that doesn't have enough charge (since it still results in the device not getting enough power).

[funkym0nk]

I got a multimeter and could not find a parasitic draw anywhere, batter was sufficient. Thought it was a faulty wire somewhere but when I was checking with the multimeter I found that on the (-) terminal there was a dead spot. I put some baking soda and how water and cleaned it off with an old toothbrush and was able to remove the slightest bit of corrosion that was causing the issue! Couldnt even see it but thanks guys for pointing me in the right direction

[Triple Jim]

Excellent. I can't count the number of times in my life when I had to clean battery terminals on a vehicle. One memorable time was during rush hour on Route 1 in College Park, MD, at a red light. Suddenly the engine just quit running, and it wouldn't crank. I pushed it off the road among blowing horns and irritated drivers, and sure enough, battery terminal corrosion had caused it.

If you put a little grease in the connection, it'll keep moisture and other bad stuff out of the joint, and add some reliability.