DIY EFI KIT for our 250r

[sendler]

Originally Posted by forbitel

update!
I will keep testing the kit as weather permits, and will let you all know.

Thanks for leading the way on this kit. I hope to be right behind you starting in January when my work dies down.

[avneet]

Wow also very interested in this. If you guys say it checks out after testing, I may buy it and have a shop install it for me.

[forbitel]

Originally Posted by sendler

Thanks for leading the way on this kit. I hope to be right behind you starting in January when my work dies down.

Glad to help, and let us know how it goes.

[greg737]

The new Injectors: Initially, the kit came with 80g/min injectors, and Ecotrons sent me a replacement for 128g/min, Matt said all the new kits will come with the new injectors. I'm hoping to see a better response at the top end, but I have not yet tested to see if the top speed got higher.

I'm guessing you got this information directly from Matt. It's a little confusing to me because I'm used to reading injector stats written in either cc/min or pounds/hour.

So to get cc/min I have to go through the following:

The 80g/min injector = 80/453.6*60 = 10.5pounds/hour which converts to 110cc/min

and the 128g/min injector = 128/453.6*60 = 16.9pounds/hour which converts to 177cc/min

(the 453.6 factor is "grams in a pound")

So the Ecotrons kit now uses 177cc/min at 43.5psi injectors. That's definitely an improvement and may actually be the perfect injector size for the EX-250. As a comparison Kawasaki uses 200cc/min injectors in the fuel injected EX-250.

The reason I say that the 177cc/min injectors might be exactly perfect for the EX-250 is this:
In my EX-250 project I used the Kawasaki OEM throttlebody and its 200cc/min OEM injectors. When I finally had my bike all up and running and properly tuned my idle-speed injector pulse-length (at fully warmed up engine temperature) is a 0.7 millisecond shot of fuel at 42psi. All of my do-it-yourself fuel injection expert sources say that you don't want to go any shorter than this at idle because below that pulse-length the math becomes problematic for the ECU and the injector itself can't react precisely enough to provide tuneability.

(As a side note: I'm pretty sure that for the fuel injected EX-250 Kawasaki just used an injector that was already in their parts-bin. They figured out that the 200cc/min injectors were just barely small enough to work, so they went with them. It's very possible that these same injectors are in the Ninja 650R.)

So with slightly smaller injectors, 177cc/min in the Ecotrons kit, you should find that they're easily tuneable for idle (it'll probably around a .9 to 1.0 millisecond shot) and they'll also have plenty of fuel flow-rate capacity to feed the bike's 125cc cylinders at 13,000 RPM.

It's in the high-RPMs that the original Ecotrons 110cc/min injectors ran into problems: At 13,000 RPM the 4-stroke engine cycle (720 degrees of rotation, which is two full engine rotations) takes .00923 of a second (60/13000=0.00461*2=0.00923). Or you can phrase it as 9.23 milliseconds. That's all the time you have to get the needed fuel through the injector and on its way down the intake tract. And you have to include "injector opening time" of about 1 millisecond for the electrical signal from the ECU to cause the injector to open. So now you're down to working with 9.23 - 1.0 = 8.23 milliseconds and the 110cc/min injectors just didn't flow fuel fast enough. Maybe it was just barely too little, but aparently it was pretty noticable in some of the early installations.

So it sounds like the Ecotrons kit is improving.

The "take-away" message for people building a do-it-yourself fuel injection project is that with injectors there is a relatively small flow-rate size range that will work for any particular engine size and configuration. If you're not careful you can end up in an un-tuneable situation with injectors that are too small or too big.

(Unlike everything else in America "bigger isn't necessarily better")

[caliente103]

group buy
Posted via Mobile Device

[k12.usmc]

So I got the cables yesterday and was able to install this evening. I got the bike completely back together around midnight and did a quick test ride. Decided to take her home. She has so much more torque and throttle response is really nice. Gonna need to do some tuning but its totally worth it.

Beware of the added torque! Can get you in trouble real quick if you have try to ride the same as before. Trust me I know! Lol

[tazz]

Thats awesome!
We here in India get the FI version.

Welcome to the club!

My question would be, is there any break-in period involved, after the install?

[forbitel]

Originally Posted by greg737

I'm guessing you got this information directly from Matt.

Yes, That info I got it from Matt/Ecotrons

Originally Posted by greg737

The 80g/min injector = 80/453.6*60 = 10.5pounds/hour which converts to 110cc/min
and the 128g/min injector = 128/453.6*60 = 16.9pounds/hour which converts to 177cc/min

Your calculations look good to me, I get 80g/min = 111cc/min, and 128g/min = 177.78cc/min

Originally Posted by greg737

The "take-away" message for people building a do-it-yourself fuel injection project is that with injectors there is a relatively small flow-rate size range that will work for any particular engine size and configuration. If you're not careful you can end up in an un-tuneable situation with injectors that are too small or too big.
(Unlike everything else in America "bigger isn't necessarily better")

I Totally agree with you, Bigger than needed Injectors will not allow you to idle correctly, and too small injectors will not supply enough fuel at the top end

[forbitel]

Originally Posted by k12.usmc

Beware of the added torque! Can get you in trouble real quick if you have try to ride the same as before. Trust me I know! Lol

Congrats man, I know, It does definitely feels with more punch with the new version of the ECU and bigger injectors.

By the way, I was able to give it a quick try to the top end. initially with the old ECU and small injectors I was able to reach a top of 95MPH not matter how much I tried, I could not pass this mark even in RICH/performance mode, with the new ECU and bigger injectors I was able to reach about 97 (needle in the middle of 100 and 95, sorry I can't be more accurate, lol) in ECO mode. I cant wait to test it in RICH mode

disclaimer: Top speeds have been legally tested off-road

[forbitel]

Originally Posted by tazz

Thats awesome!
We here in India get the FI version.

Welcome to the club!

My question would be, is there any break-in period involved, after the install?

There is not Break-in involved just a learning period.
The Kit will come with pre-set values for Volumetric Efficiency that they have found from their 250 test bike, however this values might (will) differ a little bit from engine to engine. During normal usage the ECU will command the fuel based in this initial settings and will monitor the O2 sensors to see how far it is from what it commanded, the error is used to find correction factors that will be saved for usage during future similar conditions (temp, altitude, RPM, throttle, etc).

So in short, the ECU "LEARNS" your engine as you use it. you need to consider the following:
- ECU only learns in ECO mode, so you will need to use the bike in ECO for a little while before you switch to RICH/Performance.
- The ECU only learns based on the O2 sensor feedback, so the learning will only happens after the O2 sensor have heated enough to begin to work properly, usually 5min in my case.
- The ECU will need to learn as many different condition as possible, IDLE, tip-in zone, cruise, top-end, etc. So you will want to hit as many zones of the map as possible, usually normal driving will hit them all or the most used ones.

After the learning, you can switch it to Performance and enjoy the additional power

[choneofakind]

So does this newer "learning" ECU have enough ability to change the A/F mix to allow pod filters and full exhaust without touching it? Or would the ECU have to be tuned to work right in that situation? Just curious

[greg737]

The ECU doesn't care what sort of equipment is installed on the bike. All it cares about is air/fuel ratios. It measures the air/fuel ratios with the O2 sensor(s) in the exhaust and will simply keep on correcting the fueling table until it achieves the ratios it wants. So if the bike you install the system on has pods and a 2-into-1 then the ECU will tune to the correct air/fuel ratios for that setup.

The only concern I might have would be that Ecotrons sends the ECU to you with a "basic" tune installed in it. If this basic tune is for a stock intake and exhaust setup it would be too lean for a bike with pods and a 2-into-1 setup. Of course, the ECU would immediately begin correcting it, but there would be a period of too-lean running.

Maybe it would be best if Ecotrons would ask you ahead of time about your intake and exhaust configuration and send you an ECU configured with a basic tune that corresponds to that setup.

(I know that part of the appeal of the Ecotrons kit is that it's pretty much plug-and-play on a stock EX-250, which explains why it comes with two O2 sensors and the ability to maintain two separate fueling tables, one for each cylinder. But because I'm only speaking from my do-it-yourself fuel injection perspective (Microsquirt rather than Ecotrons), I haven't worked with the Ecotrons kit and I don't know what you would have to change/reconfigure anything for a 2-into-1 exhaust which usually means you need only one O2 sensor.)

[choneofakind]

if it has 2 O2 bungs, wouldn't you just drill a hole in each header? So that would be the same with a 2-1 exhaust; just make sure you drill it in the area before they merge.

If that can learn on its' own, and doesn't need a power commander, that sounds like the way that the 250R should have come out in the first place. And this kit is what, $500? sounds good to me now I want to adapt this to my pregen, or get a newgen just for this, or both

[greg737]

if it has 2 O2 bungs, wouldn't you just drill a hole in each header? So that would be the same with a 2-1 exhaust; just make sure you drill it in the area before they merge.

Yes, that's one way to do it.

I'm just speaking from the perspective of a non-Ecotrons fuel injection project guy.

The Ecotrons kit is unique with the use of two O2 sensors on two cylinders. I've never see or heard of that in my entire exposure to the do-it-yourself fuel injection world. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. On the contrary, it's an innovative way to get the needed data from two exhausts that never really mix together (the OEM EX-250 1-into-1 dual style).

The Ecotrons ECU is the first do-it-yourself ECU that I've ever seen with the capability to monitor two O2 sensors at the same time. It's a neat package, no doubt.

I have seen installations where the guy had to move his single O2 sensor back and forth occasionally between two exhaust bungs on a project that had two exhausts that didn't mix (like a V8 engine with straight dual exhausts or a BMW "airhead boxer" motorcycle engine). But these are the exception to the rule, as most performance-type engines have exhausts that are "some-number-of-cylinders-into-one".

My point is that most do-it-yourself fuel injection guys would tell you that on a parallel twin like the EX-250 with a 2-into-1 exhaust installed, two O2 sensors really amounts to overkill. Yes, there might be very slight differences in the gas-flow characteristics between the two cylinders, but they would be only very small differences. In fact, one of the primary objectives of the designer of any quality 2-into-1 exhaust pipe is to tune the exhaust so as to create very similar flow characteristics for both cylinders.

So I was wondering if the Ecotrons guys had included an easy way to set their kit to use only one O2 sensor.

[ecotrons]

Originally Posted by greg737

The Ecotrons ECU is the first do-it-yourself ECU that I've ever seen with the capability to monitor two O2 sensors at the same time. It's a neat package, no doubt.

So I was wondering if the Ecotrons guys had included an easy way to set their kit to use only one O2 sensor.

Greg,
You are definitely one of the most knowledgeable guys here on fuel injections.

To answer your question: YES, it is very easy for us to set the kit to use one O2 sensor. It is simply calibration changes. The only problem: you will have to get a 2-in-1 exhaust pipe first.
The primary reason to use 2 O2 sensor is because the stock engine has 2 exhaust pipes. One O2 sensor can not handle that. Certainly 2 O2 sensors give more accurate fuel controls on indivadual cylinders as a plus.

In the automotive world, it is called "2 bank" system, if you look at those V6 engine, V8, V10, V12, engines, they all have at least 2 O2 sensors on the 2 banks exhaust manifolds, of course at the joint of "x-into-1" locations. Actually they all have more than 3 or 4 O2 sensors before and after the catalyst(s). It is regulatory requirements to do that, otherwise all those OEMs would fail the emissions and OBD regulations. Remember, we are in Detroit, we come from automotive industries.

The reason most motorsports people don't do 2-bank system is because 1) it's very complicated; 2) it costs more. They would rather to ask you to change your exhaust pipe.
It's our mission to make this kit a PNP, and costing the least for customers. We are good at ECU technologies. We can do that, yet with a reasonable cost.

[etiainen]

Is there a general price to suggest for welding the 02 sensors into the exhaust?

[greg737]

Thanks, your reply helps me to realize that I've only been looking at a small part of the fuel injection world, that being the "aftermarket-performance-enthusiast" segment. Within that segment you'll normally find a guy who is very performance oriented so he's almost certainly going to change the OEM exhaust out for a high-flow 2-into-1. I'm "that guy".

But I guess you (Ecotrons) will see not just the "enthusiast" like myself but another type of guy who's interested in fuel injection for reasons relating to ease of use and fuel economy.

Even with the "go-fast" stuff on my bike, K&N filter and 2-into-1 exhaust, it averages right at or just over 60 MPG in a mix of riding. My average tank of gas is burned with about equal parts highway, stop-&-go city/neighborhood, and "spirited" twisty road riding.

[choneofakind]

So the kicker question here is, could this be retrofitted to a pre-gen with minimal modification besides changing the values for the timing? We've already decided that the injectors are the right size for this engine, the throttle bodies will fit, and the O2 bungs would work (there's 2 of them, and the headers on a pregen are larger diameter than the J model headers), and the ECU will "learn" the proper mix that is needed. So all that would be needed really is to install the kit as the directions dictate and try it out right?

*edit*

just answered my own question by reading previous posts more deeply. *facepalm*...

Originally Posted by bprayogo

and you guys with Old Gen NINJA you can USE THIS KIT TOO.

*/edit*

[greg737]

And there's a good chance that with a little bit of modification the vacuum line on the bike's OEM petcock could be transformed into a return line for the fuel pressure regulator. It wouldn't even be a very tough modification to do.

I noticed a while back that the question of where and how to route the return line from the fuel pressure regulator was the messiest part of the Ecotrons kit.

Of course, if you've got a California-emissions equipped bike you can just re-purpose one of the California tank's extra ports as your fuel regulator return line. But if you don't have a Cali bike then you're faced with either finding and buying another petcock that has a return line design or drilling a hole in your tank to fit a return port (this is the scariest option, fuel tanks are delicate and just waiting to leak or rust).

I think the EX-250's OEM petcock can be easily modified to change the vacuum line into a fuel line. And a fuel injected bike does not need a vacuum actuated petcock so you're free to change it over. On my do-it-yourself fuel injection project I changed the vacuum line into a fuel line for my fuel pump's vapor/bubble line. This was simple to do because all I had to do was remove the vacuum diaphram and it's plastic housing and that turns the vacuum line into a fuel line.

The only question that has to be answered is whether the re-purposed petcock vacuum line can be modified to handle the volume of flow that the Ecotrons kit's fuel regulator needs to put through it. You can see just at a glance that the vacuum port appears large enough where the hose connects to it but inside the petcock you may have to drill/cut/re-shape/enlarge the area that it connects to once it gets inside the petcock body.

One thing that could be modified to provide enough room for the return fuel flow volume is the black plastic spacer that holds the vacuum diaphram. The main feature of the plastic spacer is an open (atmospheric) port at its bottom that allows the diaphram to operate correctly when the engine vacuum line pulls on it. This atmospheric port would have to be closed (filled in, stopped up, plugged) to prevent the petcock from leaking once the vacuum diaphram was removed. Then you could go about the job of removing the necessary metal and plastic from areas inside the petcock to open up a big enough path to handle the fuel flow volume up through what used to be the petcock's vacuum line.

There are a number of good EX-250 petcock pictures in this "Petcock Rebuild" FAQ: http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Rebuild...tcock/fuel_tap so you can see the parts I'm talking about.

I believe it's very likely that with some research a bit of ingenuity this idea would work.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by greg737

I believe it's very likely that with some research a bit of ingenuity this idea would work.

You sir are making a statement that is very dangerous threat to my wallet right now...

seriously though, great insight on this. I'll start reading looking at that. I feel like you're right; modding the petcock to no longer run on vacuum would be the easiest route to go, and just make the vacuum nipple be the return. I'm not a fan of having to put a hole in my tank. I'm also not a fan of having to track down a California model in the right color/having to paint a California model tank.

*edit to add pictures so I can visualize what you're saying*
ok so assume the pre-gen petcock is modified. this part would have to have some material removed so that there is enough flow for the return line.


Also, you said you just removed the diaphragm. (That's the black piece that looks like home plate right?) so that means this guy is gone:


Then there would be no hole to plug right? because the atmospheric hole is in the black diaphragm that just got thrown away. That's the part that doesn't make sense to me.

Would this modified petcock still work in its' original fuctions of off/on/reserve since the front of it hasn't been touched?
*/edit*

[greg737]

It still works as an On/Off/Reserve petcock after removing the diaphram to turn the vacuum line into a fuel line. When I take my fuel tank off to work on the bike I just turn the petcock off just like I did before I modified it.

Remember that when the petcock is in it's original configuration the vacuum actuated part of the petcock is only there to stop fuel flow under this single condition: Petcock set to On or Reserve and the engine isn't running (so there's no engine vacuum pull to suck the petcock diaphram to its "open" position).

And, of course, the other side of the coin is: the vacuum diaphram can only start/allow fuel to flow if the petcock is set to On or Reserve and vacuum pull is present in the petcock vacuum line.

So in both its original configuation and the vacuum-line-to-fuel-line modified configuration the petcock's Off position simply shuts off all flow before it reaches the petcock's vacuum diaphram chamber.

[choneofakind]

Thanks that visual really helped. Basically that would allow flow both ways without affecting the use of the reserve/on/off. I like it I think this kit is quite do-able for a pre-gen.


ha. In fact, the site says that it's intended for a pre-gen... wow. I do like your method of modifying the petcock instead of the method shown in the installation instructions on their site.

http://www.ecotrons.com/files/Ninja2...anual-v2_1.pdf


Do the OEM throttle bodies make a difference besides being OEM quality parts?

[greg737]

On second thought, maybe it won't work. The return flow wouldn't make it up into the tank. It would just "turn the corner" at the bottom of the petcock and go back to the fuel pump.

To make this petcock function as a true return-to-tank path you'd have to figure out some way of routing the return flow up one of the feed tubes, either the "On" tube or the "Reserve" tube. Unfortunately, the OEM petcock is so minimally cast that I can't imagine how you could modify it to do this task.

So modifying the OEM petcock is out. But I also believe that drilling holes anywhere in the fuel tank should be ruled out also.

I think that somewhere way back in this thread there was somebody saying they'd found an aftermarket petcock that would fit the EX-250 and it had a simple "feed on one side - return line into the tank on the other side" design. That would be the best solution.

[choneofakind]

I haven't been able to find what petcock with the feed/return that you're talking about. forbitel drilled into the bottom of his tank to put in a return, k12.usmc drilled the top of his tank, or something, and the other guy, diwhiteii has a california model that he hooked the return up to the California-port.

if making a custom feed/return is the way to go. In theory we could make a metal plate the same shape as the petcock base, then buy two of something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/TB-PETCOCK/dp/...1284943&sr=8-2

and then bolt them onto that plate so that they both go into the tank, and then use the oem seal from the petcock, and bolt the new feed/return into the existing hole where the petcock was. Then we would still have a functioning breather and gas gap, a tank with no permanent mods/holes/rust makers, and there would be a way to return the fuel for cooling. Is that a valid solution?

[greg737]

Okay, I finally found it. The company is called Pingle. They mainly deal in Harley stuff. And their website runs really clunky and slow, so be patient.

It's possible that you could fit one of their adaptor plates to fit the OEM petcock mounting to the tank (their "Metric Male" adaptor would be ideal because, being a 22mm size, it would thread right into the "fuel injection manifold" that they sell).

Here's their "fuel injection manifold" (technically, it's not a petcock because it doesn't have an "On-Off" shutoff switch function). It's a pretty basic item, but it would solve the return flow problem.
http://www.pingelonline.com/powerflo_7310-CH.htm

Here's their petcock-to-tank adaptor plate selection (click on "accessories"). Possibly the "Metric Male" 22mm adaptor plate (at the very bottom of the "accessories" page) could be made to fit the EX-250. I did a quick check of my bike's petcock bolt spacing as it appears to be about 34mm which matches one of Pingle's "Metric Male" adaptor plates. http://www.pingelonline.com/powerflo.htm

[choneofakind]

Nice! A little pricy, but I guess that's not bad on top of 600 for the EFi kit.

[caliente103]

Is better then making a hole in the tank
Posted via Mobile Device

[caliente103]

Its better then making a hole in the tank
Posted via Mobile Device

[ungluck]

just read through this beginning to end.

it's weird coming from a car tunning world, and see how far behind the bike world is, especially the 250 scene...the KTM guys i have grown up around( i am ktm first) are all serious shareware tuneable ECM stuff. mostly no name..but we're taling high bit, wideband fuly tuneable ECM. knock control,afr control,timing,etc.


all in all, it's awesome seeing this coming to fruitation. a power commanderIII setup would be cool..to truly be able to make maps for the community based on setup, like in the serious car world. but seeing this literally come from the ground up is super awesome, as this develops..i am getting the itchy finger to pull for it. so awesome.

i mean, i'm getting 500whp out of a 1784cc motor on 92 octane.

[el250]

Originally Posted by greg737

...
(As a side note: I'm pretty sure that for the fuel injected EX-250 Kawasaki just used an injector that was already in their parts-bin. They figured out that the 200cc/min injectors were just barely small enough to work, so they went with them. It's very possible that these same injectors are in the Ninja 650R.)

...

INP-288, as listed in service manuals, is first listed for 2007 ZX600P7F ZX-6R

49033-0013 NOZZLE-INJECTION

Checking that part number you can see the others that used the same injector.
Looking up the EX250K parts, it is the same part number.

I have a throttle body assembly and it also has injectors with the EAT288 marking.

[greg737]

Originally Posted by el250

INP-288, as listed in service manuals, is first listed for 2007 ZX600P7F ZX-6R

49033-0013 NOZZLE-INJECTION

Checking that part number you can see the others that used the same injector.
Looking up the EX250K parts, it is the same part number.

I have a throttle body assembly and it also has injectors with the EAT288 marking.

Interesting. I wonder how many motorcycles they've used (or are still using) this injector on over the years. Once it's in your parts inventory I guess it's easy enough to simply check and see if it will work in your next model. Could be quite a string of applications since 2007.

I looked again at my European EX-250 injectors: on one side "EAT288" is scribed (kind of roughly) into the plastic and on the other side "28807ZF" is very neatly printed.

I wonder if the "28807ZF" was the original part designation that Kawasaki used when they ordered the first batch of this particular injector from their supplier (obviously some company in Japan that has a license to produce the Bosch type of fuel injector)? It seems to fit with your finding that they first appeared on the '07 ZX-6R ZX600P7F.

[Daves2JZ]

I'm in on the GB for this. This should be fun. For my back ground follow the my resto mods link in my signature then follow the other links in my car forum signature. I like to mod things!

[el250]

EAT288 are made by Denso (formly known as NipponDenso) and have the NipponDenso / Sumitomo type connector.
The ECU is by Denso so makes sense.

They are not Keihin because they would have the small K logo and different part# on body as I have seen on some 636s.
The bigger bikes have primary and secondary injectors also.



The code on my EX250K EAT288 injectors is 288086C from a 2009.
I'll have to check the other throttle bodies I have.


Looking at other similar EAT28x, and many EAT2xx, injectors and what others infer, the 28807ZF can be read to 288 07 zF where 07 might be year of production and the last two are the batch?
288 must be for nozzle design, hole count, flow, etc... and refers to the part number EAT288.


Everything I know so far:


INP-288, Kawasaki part# 49033-0013 NOZZLE-INJECTION, Denso part# EAT288


Connector: Nippon Denso style / Sumitomo? type connector
Body Color: Dark Green
Markings (stamped by connector pins): LICENSE BOSCH
High Impedance
8 hole, 60 micron atomization droplet size
200cc/min @ 43 PSI (reported in this thread)


28806YJ, 2007 ZX600P7F ZX-6R
288071S
2880725
28807ZF, B3, 2008 EX250K (greg737)
288086C, B7, 2009 EX250K (mine)

[ecotrons]

Hi, Guys,
Look at below the new part from Ecotrons for this EFI kit: tank valve.
It shall replace the stock Petcock simply.
(we will add a piece of tube on the inside of the valve, for the return line, so it's a littel higher than the feed line)

NO MORE HOLE-DRILLING on the fuel tank!

As somebody mentioned, this was a pretty much a "tank project". Now it's not anymore. It is now a pretty much an O2 sensor bung-welding project. Meaning, the major installation work is now to drill 2 holes on the exhaust and weld bungs. The rest of the kit is pretty much PNP.

We, ecotrons, have gain a lot of help and suggestions from this forum, thank you all for the efforts to make this kit PNP.

Matt from Ecotrons

[caliente103]

Originally Posted by ecotrons

Hi, Guys,
Look at below the new part from Ecotrons for this EFI kit: tank valve.
It shall replace the stock Petcock simply.
(we will add a piece of tube on the inside of the valve, for the return line, so it's a littel higher than the feed line)

NO MORE HOLE-DRILLING on the fuel tank!

As somebody mentioned, this was a pretty much a "tank project". Now it's not anymore. It is now a pretty much an O2 sensor bung-welding project. Meaning, the major installation work is now to drill 2 holes on the exhaust and weld bungs. The rest of the kit is pretty much PNP.

We, ecotrons, have gain a lot of help and suggestions from this forum, thank you all for the efforts to make this kit PNP.

Matt from Ecotrons

[flynjay]

That looks like a pretty easy solution.

I don't like losing the ability to shut off fuel supply for when you have to remove the tank.

I would add valves on both the out and return lines.

For the pregens, It sucks to lose the RES function, but that is not horrible.

Good job Matt. I can't wait to get my kit with the group buy!

[ecotrons]

Originally Posted by flynjay

I don't like losing the ability to shut off fuel supply for when you have to remove the tank.

I would add valves on both the out and return lines.

True, you have to drain the tank before you swap petcock or remove the tank. But it's just one time deal.
You will have to do that any way. who is gonna to do that without draining the fuel first?
Yes, we can add the shut-off valves to the tubes, but that will add significant cost to this part. For this kit it is critical to stay economic.
thanks for your feedback.
Matt

[flynjay]

Originally Posted by ecotrons

True, you have to drain the tank before you swap petcock or remove the tank. But it's just one time deal.
You will have to do that any way. who is gonna to do that without draining the fuel first?
Yes, we can add the shut-off valves to the tubes, but that will add significant cost to this part. For this kit it is critical to stay economic.
thanks for your feedback.
Matt

I'm not saying that it should be included in the kit. What you have provided is a great improvement over letting the end user figure it out.

What I am worried about is all the other mantainence that requires removal of the tank. Like valve adjustments and such.

[flynjay]

On another note. Does anybody know what connector is used on the stock EI? I'm sure all the pickups needed for this kit can be found there.

Also since the new ECU has EI functions we could then just replace the stock EI with this ECU and plug into the stock wiring harness for all the pickups.

[ecotrons]

Originally Posted by flynjay

On another note. Does anybody know what connector is used on the stock EI? I'm sure all the pickups needed for this kit can be found there.

Also since the new ECU has EI functions we could then just replace the stock EI with this ECU and plug into the stock wiring harness for all the pickups.

Assuming EI means "Electronic Ignition", yes, the stock connectors have been already included in the harness of this EFI kit. Forbitel has done that already. For pre-gens, we also have stock connectors! No more cut and splice wires for pickups.

Matt