If you chased a Ducati.... (tires)

eddiekay · January 2nd, 2011, 05:21 PM

Ok...sometimes you gotta ask the same old question a different way.
So....if a bad terrorist, on a ducati....stole your..favorite thing and you had to chase him on your ninjette... to get it back..mainly on highways but with some, also paved and clean very twisty twisties and it might rain...before you went after him...he promised to wait...what tires would you put on the bike ?
Ones that would fit on the wheels with no fiddlin' around.

Flashmonkey · January 2nd, 2011, 05:29 PM

Alex · January 2nd, 2011, 05:57 PM

/moved to new-gen tech

Whatever comes of this thread, let's make sure someone updates it here as well:

http://www.ninjette.org/wiki/New_gen_tire_options

We really ought to have a rock-solid tire recommendations page by now, and it's getting there, but still needs a little TLC.

randomwalk101 · January 2nd, 2011, 06:49 PM

Oh no...ducati started to take off...hopped on the ninjette...crank..crank..hard start..crank crank...won't start..dammit carb clogged...Nooooo!!! Wahhhhhhh!!!!!

GiGs · January 2nd, 2011, 07:36 PM

I'll give you a head start this time

KURT · January 2nd, 2011, 08:47 PM

BT-003's... Motorcyclist just tested the ZX-10R, swapping 003's for the stockers. (How's that for a recomendation.)

And they are one of the few sets of matching performance radials, you can put on the 250R.

gfloyd2002 · January 3rd, 2011, 04:32 AM

Unless the terrorist is going to run for 7500 miles straight without stopping, using some sort of aerial refueling, leaving you no time to replace your tires during the entire chase and calling for a really long wearing tire, ditch the stock IRCs.

They are hard, and have been giving me some troubles with grip, especially when not really warmed up. And dammit, they just won't wear down so I can replace them! When I do, I'm going with Pirelli Sport Demons for their reputation in wet weather, which I get a lot of here.

HKr1 · January 3rd, 2011, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KURT

BT-003's... Motorcyclist just tested the ZX-10R, swapping 003's for the stockers. (How's that for a recomendation.)

But he mentioned it might rain..... if you have 003's, you pray it doesnt rain

JMcDonald · January 3rd, 2011, 09:19 AM

I was going to ask... the 003s are good in the rain?

How are the 016s in the rain, while we are talking about a good multi-weather racing tire?

dubojr1 · January 3rd, 2011, 09:24 AM

I can pull off 15k power shifts in the pouring rain with my 016's.

JMcDonald · January 3rd, 2011, 09:30 AM

Well then I'm sold

. I'm looking to upgrade from my Avon Roadriders in the Spring.

wvninja · January 3rd, 2011, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubojr1

I can pull off 15k power shifts in the pouring rain with my 016's.

Doesn't the lil ninja redline at like 13k or were you referring to one of your other bikes.

Edit: no hate just asking

I'm putting michelin pilot power's on this spring.

dubojr1 · January 3rd, 2011, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvninja

Doesn't the lil ninja redline at like 13k or were you referring to one of your other bikes.

Edit: no hate just asking

No biggie... Yep 15K redline on my 250r. Requires one of these though...http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...hlight=brt+tis

ztrack157 · January 4th, 2011, 09:18 PM

090's and my glock that son of a bitch stole my bunny.

KURT · January 4th, 2011, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMcDonald

I was going to ask... the 003s are good in the rain?

From the Bridgstone website...
"Longer Shoulder grooves than BT-003 Racing enhance WET grip and shock absorption on public roads."

You're chasing this Ducati on public roads, right?

GiGs · January 4th, 2011, 09:38 PM

So overall...pro's and cons of each (e.g sizes, front or rear, rain, track, street)

or did I miss a thread with that info

scotty · January 4th, 2011, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiGs

So overall...pro's and cons of each (e.g sizes, front or rear, rain, track, street)

or did I miss a thread with that info

There are a ton of threads on tires here. I just bought a Michelin Pilot Power for the rear. I'm still waiting for it to come in the mail so I cant tell you if it's any good or not yet. I know alot of people use Bridgestone tires on here and love them.

Cedilla · January 6th, 2011, 03:05 PM

BT016 /thread.

gfloyd2002 · January 6th, 2011, 03:58 PM

I'd be concerned with any wide tire not meant for the stock rims, especially if you are trying to outpace this terrorist/thief fella in the twisties rather than just try to make your bike look more like a 600.

I'd love to see some actual data, but I doubt what seems to be convential wisdom that wider = more tire = better grip = better handling. My concern is that the weight and the size would reduce power, add to unsprung weight for suspension and add some gyroscopic force that would hurt handling. I could see some potential benefits to gearing, but also a concerning change in the contact patch and designed tread contact due to the pinching.

Isn't a quick, nimble turn what makes the Ninja so fun? Why mess with that by trying to put a 150 or 140 on it? When I do a quick check of race setups - I'm finding a lot of 250 racers out there running 130s. Heck, I don't know, just starting a conversation.

ztrack157 · January 6th, 2011, 04:04 PM

140 is the widest completely useable rear. There is half an inch more useable tire than a pinched 150.

Heres the three tires discussed. Your going through wet twisties look what has better tread.

Alex · January 6th, 2011, 04:16 PM

You're not off-base. The quickest machine around a track, and the most agile-feeling machine on the street, will have the smallest, lightest, and narrowest tire available that can provide the sufficient contact patch for the power and braking capabilities of the motorcycle. It will also be the stickiest, and will completely wear out the instant 1 race is over. The narrower a tire, the more agile and "flickable" a motorcycle will feel, with not only less gyroscopic force (minor), but a quicker side to side transition due to the tire profile.

But, and it's a big one, one significant factor is the compound and construction of the tire. And the tire companies do not design the latest and greatest tires in the narrowest sizes, as the market just isn't there, from street all the way up to the racing ranks (until reaching the world level). So a hypothetically modern tire that is wider/heavier/flatter than optimal, may perform better at its limits than a hypothetically older tire that is narrower/lighter/optimally shaped for quick handling. The modern tire has a better compound, perhaps providing better warmup grip, and perhaps even better durability.

It's a bit of a tradeoff. What it comes down to though, is that people who do take the new-gen Ninjette to the track do very often choose the stickier and wider rubber, including those in the fastest classes where a second or two will matter. If Bridgestone made a 003 combo with 110/70/17 in front and 130/70/17 in back, it very well may allow better performance than that same 003 tire with a 140/70/17 or 140/60/17 in back. But it's not an option, so when making the choice between a bias-ply 130/70/17 SportDemon or BT-45; or an almost race-compound 003 in the 140 size, or even a BT-016 in the 150 size, the stickier tire often gets the nod.

On the street, I continue to prefer the standard sized tires and am quite happy with the Sport Demons. And will continue to recommend them to all. Anything the slightest bit wider will affect steering feel, and take away some amount of what I enjoy about our bikes.

V2Neal · January 6th, 2011, 04:23 PM

I've run the BT003's on the track and they worked great ... except in the wet. I'll be getting rain tires this year

ztrack157 · January 6th, 2011, 04:26 PM

Dunlop makes a 130 race tire. But they are only for sale in Japan. They were tring to bring them over and sell them here in the states or rework them into a 140 rear using their stickiest compound. But the testing was done last july here in the states. Then they never kept me in the loop after that.

gfloyd2002 · January 6th, 2011, 04:27 PM

Thanks, Alex. A thoughtful description of tire size differences that makes complete sense and deserves to be in the tires part of the wiki somewhere. And an excellent use of the two cents emoticon.

ithaca00 · January 8th, 2011, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ztrack157

Dunlop makes a 130 race tire. But they are only for sale in Japan. They were tring to bring them over and sell them here in the states or rework them into a 140 rear using their stickiest compound. But the testing was done last july here in the states. Then they never kept me in the loop after that.

Well, get back in the loop damnit! :P

rockNroll · January 8th, 2011, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddiekay

on a ducati....stole your..favorite thing and you had to chase him on your ninjette...

You better hope he's slow

January 2nd, 2011, 05:21 PM	#1
eddiekay ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: eddie Location: Lawnguylind Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): 300, WeeStrom Posts: A lot.	If you chased a Ducati.... (tires) Ok...sometimes you gotta ask the same old question a different way. So....if a bad terrorist, on a ducati....stole your..favorite thing and you had to chase him on your ninjette... to get it back..mainly on highways but with some, also paved and clean very twisty twisties and it might rain...before you went after him...he promised to wait...what tires would you put on the bike ? Ones that would fit on the wheels with no fiddlin' around.

January 2nd, 2011, 05:57 PM	#3
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	/moved to new-gen tech Whatever comes of this thread, let's make sure someone updates it here as well: http://www.ninjette.org/wiki/New_gen_tire_options We really ought to have a rock-solid tire recommendations page by now, and it's getting there, but still needs a little TLC. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

January 3rd, 2011, 04:32 AM	#7
gfloyd2002 User Title Free Since '12 Name: Floyd Location: Barbados Join Date: Dec 2010 Motorcycle(s): '10 Ninja 250R Special Edition Green Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 13 MOTM - Feb '12	Unless the terrorist is going to run for 7500 miles straight without stopping, using some sort of aerial refueling, leaving you no time to replace your tires during the entire chase and calling for a really long wearing tire, ditch the stock IRCs. They are hard, and have been giving me some troubles with grip, especially when not really warmed up. And dammit, they just won't wear down so I can replace them! When I do, I'm going with Pirelli Sport Demons for their reputation in wet weather, which I get a lot of here. __________________________________________________ "Improvement makes straight roads, but the crooked roads without improvement, are roads of genius." — William Blake

January 3rd, 2011, 09:19 AM	#9
JMcDonald ninjette.org sage Name: J Location: Oklahoma Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250R Posts: 771	I was going to ask... the 003s are good in the rain? How are the 016s in the rain, while we are talking about a good multi-weather racing tire? __________________________________________________ Factory Pro Jet Kit, K&N R-0990 Pod Filter, Sportisi VR Black Exhaust, BRT TIS Ignition, White Paint, and 16/41 Sprockets. Soon: Maybe a 37T Rear Sprocket if I get things running like I'd hoped.

January 3rd, 2011, 09:24 AM	#10
dubojr1 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Jason Location: Jacksonville, Florida Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250R SE, 07 Honda CRF230F, 06 Honda CRF150F Posts: A lot.	I can pull off 15k power shifts in the pouring rain with my 016's. __________________________________________________ 09 250R SE: Paying it forward one post at a time! Don't forget to add yourself to our Member Map

January 2nd, 2011, 05:29 PM	#2
Flashmonkey Professional belly dancer Name: James Location: Toronto Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 1992 GSX-R 750 Posts: A lot.

January 2nd, 2011, 06:49 PM	#4
randomwalk101 self wrencher Name: john Location: houston Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 250r and 07 600r Posts: A lot.	Oh no...ducati started to take off...hopped on the ninjette...crank..crank..hard start..crank crank...won't start..dammit carb clogged...Nooooo!!! Wahhhhhhh!!!!!

January 2nd, 2011, 07:36 PM	#5
GiGs ninjette.org member Name: Michael Location: Melbourne Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250r Posts: 139	I'll give you a head start this time

January 2nd, 2011, 08:47 PM	#6
KURT Resident Old Guy Name: Kurt Location: Goodyear, Az Join Date: Jul 2010 Motorcycle(s): sold Posts: 264	BT-003's... Motorcyclist just tested the ZX-10R, swapping 003's for the stockers. (How's that for a recomendation.) And they are one of the few sets of matching performance radials, you can put on the 250R.

January 3rd, 2011, 09:30 AM	#11
JMcDonald ninjette.org sage Name: J Location: Oklahoma Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250R Posts: 771	Well then I'm sold . I'm looking to upgrade from my Avon Roadriders in the Spring. __________________________________________________ Factory Pro Jet Kit, K&N R-0990 Pod Filter, Sportisi VR Black Exhaust, BRT TIS Ignition, White Paint, and 16/41 Sprockets. Soon: Maybe a 37T Rear Sprocket if I get things running like I'd hoped.

January 4th, 2011, 09:18 PM	#14
ztrack157 The Sportisi Master Name: Matt Location: Chico Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.	090's and my glock that son of a bitch stole my bunny. __________________________________________________ Sportisimoto USA is born.

January 4th, 2011, 09:38 PM	#16
GiGs ninjette.org member Name: Michael Location: Melbourne Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250r Posts: 139	So overall...pro's and cons of each (e.g sizes, front or rear, rain, track, street) or did I miss a thread with that info

January 6th, 2011, 03:05 PM	#18
Cedilla ninjette.org sage Name: Chris Location: Huntsville, AL Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250 (sold) Posts: 755	BT016 /thread. __________________________________________________ The Ninjette is not a disposable bike. You are not ever supposed to get rid of it. It is like a [friendly] herpes virus.... once you got it, you get keep it forever. Originally posted by-Headshrink

January 6th, 2011, 03:58 PM	#19
gfloyd2002 User Title Free Since '12 Name: Floyd Location: Barbados Join Date: Dec 2010 Motorcycle(s): '10 Ninja 250R Special Edition Green Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 13 MOTM - Feb '12	I'd be concerned with any wide tire not meant for the stock rims, especially if you are trying to outpace this terrorist/thief fella in the twisties rather than just try to make your bike look more like a 600. I'd love to see some actual data, but I doubt what seems to be convential wisdom that wider = more tire = better grip = better handling. My concern is that the weight and the size would reduce power, add to unsprung weight for suspension and add some gyroscopic force that would hurt handling. I could see some potential benefits to gearing, but also a concerning change in the contact patch and designed tread contact due to the pinching. Isn't a quick, nimble turn what makes the Ninja so fun? Why mess with that by trying to put a 150 or 140 on it? When I do a quick check of race setups - I'm finding a lot of 250 racers out there running 130s. Heck, I don't know, just starting a conversation. __________________________________________________ "Improvement makes straight roads, but the crooked roads without improvement, are roads of genius." — William Blake

January 6th, 2011, 04:16 PM	#21
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	You're not off-base. The quickest machine around a track, and the most agile-feeling machine on the street, will have the smallest, lightest, and narrowest tire available that can provide the sufficient contact patch for the power and braking capabilities of the motorcycle. It will also be the stickiest, and will completely wear out the instant 1 race is over. The narrower a tire, the more agile and "flickable" a motorcycle will feel, with not only less gyroscopic force (minor), but a quicker side to side transition due to the tire profile. But, and it's a big one, one significant factor is the compound and construction of the tire. And the tire companies do not design the latest and greatest tires in the narrowest sizes, as the market just isn't there, from street all the way up to the racing ranks (until reaching the world level). So a hypothetically modern tire that is wider/heavier/flatter than optimal, may perform better at its limits than a hypothetically older tire that is narrower/lighter/optimally shaped for quick handling. The modern tire has a better compound, perhaps providing better warmup grip, and perhaps even better durability. It's a bit of a tradeoff. What it comes down to though, is that people who do take the new-gen Ninjette to the track do very often choose the stickier and wider rubber, including those in the fastest classes where a second or two will matter. If Bridgestone made a 003 combo with 110/70/17 in front and 130/70/17 in back, it very well may allow better performance than that same 003 tire with a 140/70/17 or 140/60/17 in back. But it's not an option, so when making the choice between a bias-ply 130/70/17 SportDemon or BT-45; or an almost race-compound 003 in the 140 size, or even a BT-016 in the 150 size, the stickier tire often gets the nod. On the street, I continue to prefer the standard sized tires and am quite happy with the Sport Demons. And will continue to recommend them to all. Anything the slightest bit wider will affect steering feel, and take away some amount of what I enjoy about our bikes. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

January 6th, 2011, 04:23 PM	#22
V2Neal Bad-ass 250 racer Name: Neal Location: Minnesnowta Join Date: Nov 2010 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r, ATK 605, Honda CR250R Posts: 91	I've run the BT003's on the track and they worked great ... except in the wet. I'll be getting rain tires this year __________________________________________________ CRA #28. Just wave as you go by!

January 6th, 2011, 04:26 PM	#23
ztrack157 The Sportisi Master Name: Matt Location: Chico Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.	Dunlop makes a 130 race tire. But they are only for sale in Japan. They were tring to bring them over and sell them here in the states or rework them into a 140 rear using their stickiest compound. But the testing was done last july here in the states. Then they never kept me in the loop after that. __________________________________________________ Sportisimoto USA is born.

January 6th, 2011, 04:27 PM	#24
gfloyd2002 User Title Free Since '12 Name: Floyd Location: Barbados Join Date: Dec 2010 Motorcycle(s): '10 Ninja 250R Special Edition Green Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 13 MOTM - Feb '12	Thanks, Alex. A thoughtful description of tire size differences that makes complete sense and deserves to be in the tires part of the wiki somewhere. And an excellent use of the two cents emoticon. __________________________________________________ "Improvement makes straight roads, but the crooked roads without improvement, are roads of genius." — William Blake

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