Gas spills out of my 0990 Air Filter! !@#$%

00v_Lucky · September 15th, 2010, 11:21 AM

I am in need of some help from you experienced guys to pinpoint what the problem is or possible problems.

Background info on the bike:

Full Sportisi VR exhaust system
CA Kleen Air System Removed
Air box removed, 0990 K&N Filter with the stock tubes are installed
Carbs: show signs of needing sync (but i'll tune them after this problem)

Main jet 112 (DJ 108 i believe?), idle screw 3 turns out, DJ needle with clip in 3rd position

A copper fuel filter was installed

Symptoms:

-Much higher pressure in the gas tank (I found this out by opening up the tank and heard a much stronger pressure release)

-The bike runs fine, i've test road it for a couple of miles and pulled very hard, I was very happy about the results, then when I engine break or come to a stop, the engine dies and starts spilling a lot of gas

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. The bike is currently at the shop so I cannot show any pictures yet. (Long story but the mechanic doesn't have time to work on my bike anymore)

kkim · September 15th, 2010, 11:24 AM

is your fuel petcock on "prime" by any chance?

00v_Lucky · September 15th, 2010, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

is your fuel petcock on "prime" by any chance?

no, but I did prime it initially to fill the float bowls again. Do you think perhaps my petcock is faulty?

The mechanic said it is a vacuum issue of some sort but trying to get a second opinion

tjkamper · September 15th, 2010, 11:38 AM

You also mentioned an increase in perceived pressure in the Tank...

When you removed the Kleen Air system did you correctly vent the Tank on the CA model, or did you just plug up all three holes?

Front hole should be connected to the overflow hose that dangles down under the bike.
The middle hole should be capped off. The back hole should be left open or have some open form of filtration/ventilation.

00v_Lucky · September 15th, 2010, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjkamper

Front hole should be connected to the overflow hose that dangles down under the bike.
The middle hole should be capped off. The back hole should be left open or have some open form of filtration/ventilation.

Okay, I will try that. My set up of the holes right now is:

1. I left the overflow host alone

2&3 are capped off. How should I have the 3rd hole open then?

I hope that this is the only problem!!! :cross fingers

Thanks for that info tjkamper and thanks Kelly for your fast response (like always)

kkim · September 15th, 2010, 11:42 AM

easy way to see if your petcock is faulty... remove the fuel line with the petcock in the "on" position. it should not flow gas w/o vacuum applied to the backside of the petcock via that small vacuum hose.

your overflow problem could be from your float levels being off/misadjusted or a faulty fuel needle valve which controls fuel flow into the carbs.

did you redo the float levels when you did the rejetting?

edit... oops. forgot you may have a CA version bike. try TJ's suggestions first.

tjkamper · September 15th, 2010, 11:46 AM

The back hole can just be left open. Or, you can take a small inline fuel filter a PCV valve and little bit of fuel line to create a filter that keeps the gas smell down and helps filter any junk from going in through the hole. I don't have any pictures, since when I did mine I didn't have a camera. But the set up is very easy.

Length of hose\filter\length of hose\valve. Mine is only 6-7 inches long in total. I used a lawnmower filter I picked up at Orielly. and a chrysler PCV

00v_Lucky · September 15th, 2010, 12:22 PM

Okay thanks guys, if tj's way doesn't work out, i'll have to wait till my friend can get his truck over on saturday and readjust the bowl levels/ resync carbs.

kkim · September 15th, 2010, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00v_Lucky

Okay thanks guys, if tj's way doesn't work out, i'll have to wait till my friend can get his truck over on saturday and readjust the bowl levels/ resync carbs.

so, you did readjust the float levels?

00v_Lucky · September 16th, 2010, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

so, you did readjust the float levels?

no, i never touched the adjustment of the float levels. And, uncapping the 3 hole on the CA version tank didn't stop the pouring of gas out of the carbs.

Since the carbs are angled down in the the bike engine, this tells me (along with a wet spark plug) that gas has flooded the engine and I have gas inside, so I did a full on oil change. However, I am worried to try again without going over the complete range of possibilities (Or else that means another oil change

)

kkim · September 16th, 2010, 12:10 PM

meh... use cheap oil for now until you find the source of the problem. Is so much gas getting into the crankcase that you see a noticeable difference of oil level height in the sight glass?

this is strange because your fuel petcock should only be flowing fuel when vacuum is being applied to it from that small vacuum hose on the back of it when you have the petcock in the "on" position.

your main problem sounds like one of the needle float valves is either stuck or not seating well due to debris.

if this is your problem, you normally need to remove the carbs and clean out the debris that is holding that valve open. You can try tapping the side of the carb bowls with the plastic end of a screwdriver to help dislodge whatever dirt that might be the problem. If you're lucky (as your user name implies

), you'll be able to fix it using this method.

At the very least, drain your carb bowls and catch and examine the gas for any signs of dirt in any of the carbs.
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Draining_the_carbs

00v_Lucky · September 16th, 2010, 12:17 PM

thanks, will do!

and I do not think there is a such thing as cheap synthetic oil (well not cheaper than Shell which I already use.) but yes, hopefully I can finish this issue Saturday.

kkim · September 16th, 2010, 12:26 PM

until you find and correct the problem, just use cheap conventional oil. use a 10w-40 automotive oil that isn't labeled "energy conserving".

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Preferred_Brands

btw, answer my question about the oil level in the sight glass. that will tell me if if the fuel petcock is working as it should be or not.

00v_Lucky · September 16th, 2010, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

until you find and correct the problem, just use cheap conventional oil. use a 10w-40 automotive oil that isn't labeled "energy conserving".

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Preferred_Brands

btw, answer my question about the oil level in the sight glass. that will tell me if if the fuel petcock is working as it should be or not.

I wasn't able to take my bike out of the shop yesterday, only to go check it out. As for the dino oil. Is it okay to switch back to it when I've been running synthetics for over 7k miles now?

However, before I took it to the shop, the petcock was working fine. This is because when I removed the tank and put it on a piece of cardboard. There were no leaks. Or any significant leaks for that matter (just a couple of drips)

kkim · September 16th, 2010, 01:07 PM

sure, you can go back to conventional oil... just make sure it's not an energy conserving type.

okay, if your petcock is working properly, when the bike is parked/not running, the gas overflow you are seeing is most likely what is leftover from the fuel line at the petcock and down which is being allowed to flow from that stuck open float valve.

when you're riding and come to a stop, the engine is still producing vacuum allowing the fuel to flow to that stuck float valve allowing fuel to flow freely into the carb and out the air filter and into the crankcase.

I would think when starting the bike the idle is sort of not normal and the bike runs poorly until you're up to speed?

if you have the means, pull the spark plugs and I'm sure whichever cylinder has that stuck float valve will appear blacker than the other. That way you'll know which carb needs cleaning.

headshrink · September 18th, 2010, 05:20 PM

I might have this backward, but for the CA models, I believe it is SLIGHTLY more ideal to vent the middle port on the gas tank (rather than the right one), because IIRC it is a LITTLE higher inside the gas tank. I concur that it is best to put a length of tubing on it, with a generic in-line fuel filter. Without the fuel filter on the new vent tube (which is essentially now an air filter), I personally would never have peace of mind about little junk from the environment getting sucked in. The PCV valve is, IMO not at all necessary, BUT if you choose to use one, make sure it is installed in the correct direction... so air can come into the tank.

In summary:

Left gas tank side port = original overflow tube
Center gas tank side port = length of tubbing, generic in-line fuel filter, optional PCV valve (allowing flow of air into tank)
Right gas tank side port = capped off.

This may not have been necessary to restate, but for myself, these are the little details I go over and over in my mind until I understand what I am doing.

September 15th, 2010, 11:21 AM	#1
00v_Lucky ninjette.org sage Name: Howard Location: Cypress, So. Cal. Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Candy Thunder Blue Ninja 250R Posts: 618	Gas spills out of my 0990 Air Filter! !@#$% I am in need of some help from you experienced guys to pinpoint what the problem is or possible problems. Background info on the bike: Full Sportisi VR exhaust system CA Kleen Air System Removed Air box removed, 0990 K&N Filter with the stock tubes are installed Carbs: show signs of needing sync (but i'll tune them after this problem) Main jet 112 (DJ 108 i believe?), idle screw 3 turns out, DJ needle with clip in 3rd position A copper fuel filter was installed Symptoms: -Much higher pressure in the gas tank (I found this out by opening up the tank and heard a much stronger pressure release) -The bike runs fine, i've test road it for a couple of miles and pulled very hard, I was very happy about the results, then when I engine break or come to a stop, the engine dies and starts spilling a lot of gas Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. The bike is currently at the shop so I cannot show any pictures yet. (Long story but the mechanic doesn't have time to work on my bike anymore)

September 15th, 2010, 11:38 AM	#4
tjkamper ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Travis Location: Warwick, RI Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	You also mentioned an increase in perceived pressure in the Tank... When you removed the Kleen Air system did you correctly vent the Tank on the CA model, or did you just plug up all three holes? Front hole should be connected to the overflow hose that dangles down under the bike. The middle hole should be capped off. The back hole should be left open or have some open form of filtration/ventilation. __________________________________________________ Addicted to anything that has an engine and rolls.

September 15th, 2010, 11:46 AM	#7
tjkamper ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Travis Location: Warwick, RI Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	The back hole can just be left open. Or, you can take a small inline fuel filter a PCV valve and little bit of fuel line to create a filter that keeps the gas smell down and helps filter any junk from going in through the hole. I don't have any pictures, since when I did mine I didn't have a camera. But the set up is very easy. Length of hose\filter\length of hose\valve. Mine is only 6-7 inches long in total. I used a lawnmower filter I picked up at Orielly. and a chrysler PCV __________________________________________________ Addicted to anything that has an engine and rolls.

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September 15th, 2010, 11:24 AM	#2
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	is your fuel petcock on "prime" by any chance?

September 15th, 2010, 11:42 AM	#6
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	easy way to see if your petcock is faulty... remove the fuel line with the petcock in the "on" position. it should not flow gas w/o vacuum applied to the backside of the petcock via that small vacuum hose. your overflow problem could be from your float levels being off/misadjusted or a faulty fuel needle valve which controls fuel flow into the carbs. did you redo the float levels when you did the rejetting? edit... oops. forgot you may have a CA version bike. try TJ's suggestions first.

September 15th, 2010, 12:22 PM	#8
00v_Lucky ninjette.org sage Name: Howard Location: Cypress, So. Cal. Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Candy Thunder Blue Ninja 250R Posts: 618	Okay thanks guys, if tj's way doesn't work out, i'll have to wait till my friend can get his truck over on saturday and readjust the bowl levels/ resync carbs.

September 16th, 2010, 12:10 PM	#11
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	meh... use cheap oil for now until you find the source of the problem. Is so much gas getting into the crankcase that you see a noticeable difference of oil level height in the sight glass? this is strange because your fuel petcock should only be flowing fuel when vacuum is being applied to it from that small vacuum hose on the back of it when you have the petcock in the "on" position. your main problem sounds like one of the needle float valves is either stuck or not seating well due to debris. if this is your problem, you normally need to remove the carbs and clean out the debris that is holding that valve open. You can try tapping the side of the carb bowls with the plastic end of a screwdriver to help dislodge whatever dirt that might be the problem. If you're lucky (as your user name implies ), you'll be able to fix it using this method. At the very least, drain your carb bowls and catch and examine the gas for any signs of dirt in any of the carbs. http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Draining_the_carbs

September 16th, 2010, 12:17 PM	#12
00v_Lucky ninjette.org sage Name: Howard Location: Cypress, So. Cal. Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Candy Thunder Blue Ninja 250R Posts: 618	thanks, will do! and I do not think there is a such thing as cheap synthetic oil (well not cheaper than Shell which I already use.) but yes, hopefully I can finish this issue Saturday.

September 16th, 2010, 12:26 PM	#13
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	until you find and correct the problem, just use cheap conventional oil. use a 10w-40 automotive oil that isn't labeled "energy conserving". http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Preferred_Brands btw, answer my question about the oil level in the sight glass. that will tell me if if the fuel petcock is working as it should be or not.

September 16th, 2010, 01:07 PM	#15
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	sure, you can go back to conventional oil... just make sure it's not an energy conserving type. okay, if your petcock is working properly, when the bike is parked/not running, the gas overflow you are seeing is most likely what is leftover from the fuel line at the petcock and down which is being allowed to flow from that stuck open float valve. when you're riding and come to a stop, the engine is still producing vacuum allowing the fuel to flow to that stuck float valve allowing fuel to flow freely into the carb and out the air filter and into the crankcase. I would think when starting the bike the idle is sort of not normal and the bike runs poorly until you're up to speed? if you have the means, pull the spark plugs and I'm sure whichever cylinder has that stuck float valve will appear blacker than the other. That way you'll know which carb needs cleaning.

September 18th, 2010, 05:20 PM	#16
headshrink ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Bob Location: CA Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250r, '14 CBR500r Posts: A lot.	I might have this backward, but for the CA models, I believe it is SLIGHTLY more ideal to vent the middle port on the gas tank (rather than the right one), because IIRC it is a LITTLE higher inside the gas tank. I concur that it is best to put a length of tubing on it, with a generic in-line fuel filter. Without the fuel filter on the new vent tube (which is essentially now an air filter), I personally would never have peace of mind about little junk from the environment getting sucked in. The PCV valve is, IMO not at all necessary, BUT if you choose to use one, make sure it is installed in the correct direction... so air can come into the tank. In summary: Left gas tank side port = original overflow tube Center gas tank side port = length of tubbing, generic in-line fuel filter, optional PCV valve (allowing flow of air into tank) Right gas tank side port = capped off. This may not have been necessary to restate, but for myself, these are the little details I go over and over in my mind until I understand what I am doing.