brake/ tire opinions

[executor]

bike has 6786km on it. here are a couple of shots of the front and rear brakes, as well as front and rear tires. i was wondering if i could get some feedback on whether or not the brakes or tires need replaced and if not how much longer i could let them go. i think the front brake looks ok, i have no idea about the tires though.

[Banzai]

The top 2 brake pad pictures show EXCESSIVE wear and are WAY WAY WAY PAST requiring replacement. I would not ride one single bit on pads that looked like that, front or rear. TOO DANGEROUS. (Looks like those are your rear pads? WOW! Did you swap pads front to rear at some point? Do you really use your rear brakes that much?)

That little notch in the pads (still showing in the last 2 pics) is the wear limit. Once you're into that, you're at the replacement point. Anything after that and you're on your own. As for the first two pics, they're in what I call the "Order replacement pads NOW so if they're backordered, they'll be here before it's too late and unsafe" zone.

You desperately need to clean off the brake pistons, too. It looks like they're showing some corrosion that may cause leakage when you replace the pads. In any case, clean them off as good as you can BEFORE you force them back through the seals when you replace the pads or you risk damaging the seals and causing fluid leaks.

As for the tires, measure the tread depth in the center tread in at least 3 (preferably more) spots around the tire and report back. I believe the wear limit is stated on the sticker on the left side of the swing arm.

[noche_caliente]

also, try to get a pic of the tires where the wear bars are on them to help give us a better perspective - I'm with Thomas on those brakes though - the first two pics are scary!

[executor]

Originally Posted by Banzai

As for the tires, measure the tread depth in the center tread in at least 3 (preferably more) spots around the tire and report back. I believe the wear limit is stated on the sticker on the left side of the swing arm.

just measured, front tire avgs 3.5mm tread depth and rear avgs 4.4mm tread depth

[Banzai]

Originally Posted by executor

just measured, front tire avgs 3.5mm tread depth and rear avgs 4.4mm tread depth

....and how does that compare to the wear limit posted on the sticker?

Originally Posted by Banzai

I believe the wear limit is stated on the sticker on the left side of the swing arm.

...and also in the owner's manual.

(I'm on duty today and I don't have access to my bike!)

[executor]

so i looked at the sticker, front is 1mm minimum and rear is 2mm min for up to 130km/h and 3mm min for over 130km/h, where is the indicator for wear located on the tire so i can take a pic for you guys?

i guess the tires are ok, its odd, seems as though the front has hardly worn compared to stock (4.6mm stock/3.5mm now) compared to the rear at (7mm stock, 4.4mm now)

i do use heavy rear braking which accounts for the difference in wear. i need to change the brakes but i have never done anything like that. is it pretty straight forward? what tools will i need? i have changed the oil on my own.

[Banzai]

Originally Posted by executor

so i looked at the sticker, front is 1mm minimum and rear is 2mm min for up to 130km/h and 3mm min for over 130km/h, where is the indicator for wear located on the tire so i can take a pic for you guys?

OK, so you have good tread left. Not all tires have tread wear indicators, but many do. They show up as small 'bumps' in the bottom of the tread, usually about 2-3/32 inch tall. No need to show them, your measurements are sufficient, and way more accurate than molded wear indicators, anyway. The wear indicators are intended as just a quick "Go/no go" indicator.

[noche_caliente]

Jack, I'm not sure where it would be on your tire, but it should be pretty noticeable once you start looking - you can see it really clearly in this thread, first pic just above center:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...wear#post36281

[executor]

i am worried about the brake pistons now that it's been pointed out that they are corroding. how would i go about cleaning them, do i have to take the caliper off the rotor? i wish there was a walkthrough for replacing the brakes, the bike shop will probably want $200 for the job which i am sure can be done at home for way less. now i have to look for the part number for the brakes so i can order them on monday.

[kkim]

try to work on your braking technique. front brakes normally wear a lot earlier than the rear. you are not getting anywhere near maximum braking with your technique now. also, you stand a greater chance of locking up the rear. more front, less rear, but only when traveling in a straight line.

[Banzai]

Do you have access to spray brake/parts cleaner? That and a rag and some q-tips and some patience would clean up 99% of the dust and dirt and allow you to asses wether it's actually pitting corrosion or just very dirty. I thought that the pistons were stainless steel or tightly controlled chromed, and it may just be some pitting caused by road debris (common) but even stainless can corrode.

I would clean up the pistons before making any other call on 'em as to condition. Best bet to clean them is to remove the caliper, yes. Wipe off as much of the grime as you can before removing the pads, and DO NOT push the brake lever once the caliper is off.

Search the board, there have been several pad replacement threads, WITH PICS and pages of the manual, recently. The whole procedure takes about 2/3rds of a page (spread across 2 pages, though, in the service manual), so it's pretty simple.

[executor]

so i'm looking at the manual, can i clean the brake pistons and remove the calipers and replace the pads without detaching the brake line? i am worried about brake fluid getting all over, i don't know how to bleed the fluid and replace it.

[Banzai]

Originally Posted by executor

so i'm looking at the manual, can i clean the brake pistons and remove the calipers and replace the pads without detaching the brake line? i am worried about brake fluid getting all over, i don't know how to bleed the fluid and replace it.

Yes. Not really recommended, but yes, you can do it that way. Although I would submit that if your brake pads look like they do, you're probably in the window of needing new brake fluid, too. The manual also lists how to bleed the brakes.

Brake fluid should be relatively clean and clear. The closer it gets to looking like Guinness Stout, the more you need to change it.

[backinthesaddleagain]

after seeing the pics of those rear brakes I just got my butt off the couch and checked mine (4800 miles), happy they still have alot of meat on front and rear.

[executor]

so i went ahead and placed an order for EBC FA197 pads for the rear for $40. The service rep said the HH version of the pad is only necessary for the track, and is actually much harder on the rotor causing deformation over time. They want $45 per rotor to do the install. One shop told me it's really complicated and they have to take the rear wheel off and it would be around $85. Since the front still looks ok I am going to stick with it and just keep a close eye. Maybe rotate this HBC rear to the front and the front that I have now to the rear, is this a good idea? It would allow me to clean both brake pistons. But wouldn't the grooves be different and mess things up?

[backinthesaddleagain]

I would stay clear of the shop that said its reaaly complicated.

IMHO the pads and rotor wear together and moving the pads from one wheel to the other should be avoided. Most of your braking should be accomplished with the front and you have much wear left on your front pads.

[kkim]

check a service manual and determine if you are capable of changing the pads yourself. haven't done it yet on the rear, but I don't think the wheel needs to come off... maybe someone that has done it can chime in.

if the wheel does not need to come off, it should be a snap to change.

[almost40]

Pulling the rear wheel is easy. Nothing to it. Just make sure you realign it right when you put it back on.

[Nickds7]

From what I can tell in the manual, the rear wheel doesn't have to come off. The hose makes it a little more difficult though.
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...=replace+brake

[Banzai]

It's so simple, a cave man can do it. It's a 1/2 hour job for a shop worth even talking to. The one shop that said the wheel has to come off is one shop that I would never do business with, ever.

The stock factory pads are HH rated FRONT and REAR. If you don't put HH rated back on the front, EBC or otherwise, you're not going to be happy. Also, for the level that you use your rear brake, I personally would never recommend anything less than HH rated UNTIL you change your brake technique drastically.

If you have a basic socket set, some allen keys, and a torque wrench, there's no reason in the world to pay someone else to do it.

Spend the money on new pads, the way you use them, swapping them is not a good idea.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by Banzai

It's so simple, a cave man can do it. It's a 1/2 hour job for a shop worth even talking to. The one shop that said the wheel has to come off is one shop that I would never do business with, ever.

The stock factory pads are HH rated FRONT and REAR. If you don't put HH rated back on the front, EBC or otherwise, you're not going to be happy. Also, for the level that you use your rear brake, I personally would never recommend anything less than HH rated UNTIL you change your brake technique drastically.

If you have a basic socket set, some allen keys, and a torque wrench, there's no reason in the world to pay someone else to do it.

Spend the money on new pads, the way you use them, swapping them is not a good idea.

Geico caveman reference - nice.
Posted via Mobile Device

[executor]

haha, funny geico reference. i've decided to give it a go when the brake gets in stock and do it on my own. while i am tackling that i would like to touch up a couple of rough spots on my bike.

here are pics of small scrapes on the right hand brake and right handlebar end. what type of paint should i buy to cover that up? would i have to sand first? thanks for the tips!

[executor]

oh, and when i clean the brake pistons, can i use the spray i use to clean my chain or do you need special brake cleaner?

[noche_caliente]

Jack - I'll leave the brake cleaner to others, but for the rough spots you can either use flat black paint (I had some grill paint that I used on my scuffs on the brake pedal, or you can just use a sharpie marker - that works great too!

[executor]

looking at the rear caliper it looks like the exhaust is in the way, do you have to remove the exhaust to get at the caliper for removal and pad installation...

[Alex]

No, you can get a socket in there to remove the caliper without removing the exhaust. It's tight, but it's doable. The caliper needs to be taken off its mounts any time you remove/replace the rear wheel.

[executor]

ive just spent 20 mins trying to loosen the caliper allen bolts, they were put on there with super human strength or have melted on there. maybe the allen key i am using is too long but i cant get good leverage. this is too annoying.

[noche_caliente]

Are you using the short end of the allen key in the bolt, or the long end? You could always swap it if it is one of the L-shaped keys

[executor]

using the long end because there is not enough clearance to get the short end in there. 6mm.

[kkim]

use a box wrench on the end of the hex key to extend the leverage. should be easier to break the bolt loose at that point.

[executor]

screw it, i removed the exhaust and now everything is off lol. i am cleaning the pistons with some break cleaner then reassembling, i will post pics when i am done.

[executor]

just posting for anyone that wants to change their rear brake and is hesitant of the work involved. i may not have done it the easiest way but with the tools i had access to this was the only way i could do it. and i didn't want to disconnect the brake line.

step one: remove the exhaust if you want room to play with



step two: loosen the caliper bolts marked in blue (5mm allen) and remove the bolts in red (6mm allen). you may have to remove the bolt marked in green to get the break line out of the way so that you have leverage to remove the red bolts.



step three: now that the caliper is off the rotor, fully remove the bolts marked in blue from the previous step and then remove the worn brake pads. make sure to clean the brake pistons off with some brake cleaner.



step four: get out your new pads, push the brake pistons in as far as you can with your hands and then install the new pads, starting with the one closest to the piston. you will need to reinsert the bolts that were marked in blue from a few steps back.



step five: now that the pads are in place you will want to put the caliper back on the rotor, be sure to leave the bolts marked in blue loose enough so that you can get it back on the rotor. once on the rotor tighten everything up. and reinstall your exhaust.



step six: make sure you pump your brake a few times before you go off riding. i had a little brake fluid leak when i pumped because the rear brake resevoir cap wasn't on tight enough. and remember to periodically check your brakes so that you aren't riding on ones that look like this!

[kkim]

thanks for the pics.

great job!

[executor]

Originally Posted by kkim

thanks for the pics.

great job!

thanks to everyone in this thread who helped guide me along the way.

[noche_caliente]

nice job - now my question is why are you still up!?!?! Isn't it like 3 AM there?

[kkim]

He lives in Canada.

[executor]

yeah its only 10:20pm; london, ontario, canada. halfway between detroit and toronto.

[M-Oorb]

Jack maybe you wouldnt mind adding this to the Ninjette Wiki as I see there is no DIY on front or rear brake pad install

[noche_caliente]

that explains it! You would think with friends living very near there, I would think of it, but my mind instantly goes to the UK.... I was wondering why you spelled tires the US way

[executor]

Originally Posted by M-Oorb

Jack maybe you wouldnt mind adding this to the Ninjette Wiki as I see there is no DIY on front or rear brake pad install

if you want to throw it up, cool.

as an aside, today i removed the front caliper just to give it a good cleaning. once it was reinstalled the braking felt much firmer. there isn't as much life left on the pads as the first pics indicate, guess i should get some replacements for the front too. is it psychological or would a good cleaning on some pretty dirty brakes make them much firmer?