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View Poll Results: How much would you be willing to pay? | |||
$50 - $100 | 6 | 46.15% | |
$101 - $150 | 4 | 30.77% | |
$151 - $200 | 1 | 7.69% | |
$201 - $250 | 1 | 7.69% | |
$250 - $300 | 0 | 0% | |
$301+ | 1 | 7.69% | |
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll |
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Thread Tools |
November 11th, 2015, 08:27 AM | #1 |
EX500 full of EX250 parts
Name: Bill
Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold) Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Aug '15
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Interest in minimal racebike wiring harnesses?
I've been rolling around the idea of making some custom wiring harness products for a while. I've seen a number of threads here with people (who generally don't know much about electrical stuff) asking how to remove/modify circuits for racebikes, or even just for repairs or customizations on street bikes. This stuff is quite logical and simple for me, so I've always wished I could just whip up something that worked rather than trying to explain to people what they need to change to get what they're looking for.
Ideally, I'd love to offer a complete replacement main harness that plugged directly into all remaining factory plugs, and just made everything work the way you'd want it to. At this point, I haven't really done anything more than just going over the design in my head, so I don't have any details beyond the theoretical. But completely remaking the main harness allows you to really tailor the electrical system for a minimal racebike, without having to modify anything else on the bike. For example, most of the junction box consists of safety switch circuitry and fuses for lights. On a racebike, the only things you'd really be using are the fuses for the Ignition and Fan. A new harness could be wired up to completely eliminate the j-box (the Main fuse would be the only fuse on the bike) or to repurpose it so some of the grouped circuits are divided up onto their own fuses a little better (Headlight fuse powers dash gauges, Taillight fuse powers dash illumination, Ignition fuse powers only the igniter, etc.). The keyswitch could be eliminated with the killswitch repurposed as a master on/off switch. I haven't looked into how much the wire or OEM plugs would cost (or availability of the plugs), or how much time it would actually take me to make these, so I don't really have a good estimate on pricing. I'm thinking there'd be a decent investment to make it a quality PnP item, but I also know that one of the main reasons people choose these bikes is that they're inexpensive. I'd like to get some idea of what people would pay for a 100% PnP, better-than-OEM harness that made their racebike exactly the way they wanted it, with no electrical work other than pulling out the OEM harness and dropping this one in. If it's too expensive, it won't be worth it for you guys to buy them; if it's too cheap, I won't be able to afford to make them. For some comparison, the 26031-1123 harness for the '12 250 is over $200 from Partzilla (~$280 MSRP).
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*** Unregistered, I'm not your mom and I'm not paying for your parts, so do whatever you want with your own bike. *** Last futzed with by InvisiBill; November 11th, 2015 at 04:19 PM. |
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November 11th, 2015, 02:53 PM | #2 |
ninjette.org dude
Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 7
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/poll added
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November 11th, 2015, 06:17 PM | #3 |
Board Member
Name: ...
Location: WI
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 250R (street), 250R (dirt) Posts: A lot.
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What if we give you a harness to modify? I can get one off eBay for $50 or less.
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November 11th, 2015, 06:55 PM | #4 |
ninjette.org member
Name: steven
Location: new york
Join Date: Jun 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2004 kawasaki ninja 250 Posts: 44
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The OEM wire harness for the taillights on a pregen can be had on corsa technics for about 1.5 dollar. I used it to make a plug and play brake light modulator for my bike and it works fine and fits fine.
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November 13th, 2015, 09:13 AM | #5 | |
EX500 full of EX250 parts
Name: Bill
Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold) Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Aug '15
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Quote:
I don't think I'd want to rely on buying used harnesses as a basis for my product though. The savings would have to be pretty significant for dealing with the hassles of availability, shipping, possible existing damage, etc. on eBay stuff. I'd much rather just start with my own brand new wire and put a few plugs on, with no more than needed of either one. It looks like there are at least a few people interested in these, so I probably need to start taking a closer look at exactly what parts and time would be involved in making them, so I can get a better idea of cost and therefore price. I'm not looking to get rich off you guys or anything, but I don't want to spend a couple hours on each one to make $0.25 either. I'm hoping I can make a good product at a reasonable price and still have it be worth my while. Any input on the features I mentioned? I've got the technical know-how and some ideas on what I think I would like in a wiring harness, but people who actually have experience with racebikes are probably better suited to say what works well and what doesn't.
My thinking is to have a "standard" harness with the most common setup, then allow you to pick a few custom additions/deletions. For example, it's not a big deal to slap on the other R/R plugs, they just add a little cost. It shouldn't be too hard to change from the keyswitch to the killswitch, it's just slightly different wiring and one less connector.
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*** Unregistered, I'm not your mom and I'm not paying for your parts, so do whatever you want with your own bike. *** Last futzed with by InvisiBill; November 13th, 2015 at 11:26 AM. Reason: Edited features list |
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November 13th, 2015, 09:30 AM | #6 |
n00bie to wannabie
Name: Bill
Location: St Ives, BC (Shuswap Lake)
Join Date: Sep 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250R (Red), 2005 VFR800A (Red), CRF450X (Red), 2012 F800GS (Wants to be Red!) Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Nov '15
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I voted $150-200
Because; I know I'd end up spending an entire day organizing my plan, obtaining connectors etc and actually doing the work! It would be far more productive for me to work that day, pay you and still have a few bucks left for something else! Once organized; I suspect you can do each harness in less than an hour and less than $20 for materials and another hour customizing your basic plan plus time & costs for shipping. I'm in for a harness! Maybe figure out a group buy too (one ship to address)! I can probably convince a half dozen or so local racers to get in on it! On the otherhand; it is fun to tinker on the bikes with a cold pop, a little music or race DVD's and a buddy or two hanging around offering free advice!
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The Smart Money: #1 - ATGATT, #2 - Training (machine skills and survival skills), #3 - The bike; whatever floats yer boat with the money you have left over |
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
November 13th, 2015, 10:07 AM | #7 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Hansveer
Location: Bombay, India
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r - Track whore, Ninja 300 - SOLD, KTM RC390 - Orange Hulk, Ducati 899 Panigale - Red Devil. Posts: A lot.
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I'm cheap, so I voted 50-100. Please make me one for an EFI Ninja 250. I'll send you my f**ked up one if you want... I f**ked it up trying to do the same thing.
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November 13th, 2015, 10:13 AM | #8 | |
EX500 full of EX250 parts
Name: Bill
Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold) Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Aug '15
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Quote:
Assuming those are reasonable, the wire shouldn't be too expensive and it's basically just attaching the terminals to the wires and sticking them in the plugs. Once you've got a diagram of which wires/lengths are needed, it should be pretty quick work. I might even invest in some of the professional crimping tools, which should both make it easier for me and produce better results for you (but that's an expensive investment if I'm only going to sell 5 of these for $5 profit each).
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*** Unregistered, I'm not your mom and I'm not paying for your parts, so do whatever you want with your own bike. *** |
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November 13th, 2015, 11:23 AM | #9 | |
EX500 full of EX250 parts
Name: Bill
Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold) Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Aug '15
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Quote:
Since the carbed bikes are so simple, there's not much left after you remove the lighting circuits (and even less if you get rid of the safety switches), so it makes sense to just build a new one from scratch (maybe, we'll see how the numbers work out). For the EFI bikes, it might make more sense to just pick out the unneeded circuits and maybe consolidate a few separate wires into new single runs (depending on exactly what you're trying to achieve).
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*** Unregistered, I'm not your mom and I'm not paying for your parts, so do whatever you want with your own bike. *** |
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November 13th, 2015, 11:30 AM | #10 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Andrew
Location: St Louis
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): Ducati 1198s, Triumph D675, Suzuki SV1000s, `08 Ninja 250, `11 Ninja 250, Suzuki GS750 Posts: 368
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Won't be worth your time.
I make PnP Starter/Ignition combo switches for the KTM 390's and even at $50 each it's not worth my time. Also use Corsa-tech for all my OEM plugs that place is great!
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MCRA.com |
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
November 14th, 2015, 08:46 AM | #11 | |
EX500 full of EX250 parts
Name: Bill
Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold) Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Aug '15
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Quote:
Here's a quick comparison of the stock NewGen wiring diagram versus removing just the exterior lights and horn. All the safety switches are still there and no other mods (like using the killswitch for a master on/off) are shown. Even without any other changes, that still cleans up a lot of stuff.
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*** Unregistered, I'm not your mom and I'm not paying for your parts, so do whatever you want with your own bike. *** |
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1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
November 14th, 2015, 09:43 AM | #12 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Hansveer
Location: Bombay, India
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r - Track whore, Ninja 300 - SOLD, KTM RC390 - Orange Hulk, Ducati 899 Panigale - Red Devil. Posts: A lot.
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November 14th, 2015, 10:07 AM | #13 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Andrew
Location: St Louis
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): Ducati 1198s, Triumph D675, Suzuki SV1000s, `08 Ninja 250, `11 Ninja 250, Suzuki GS750 Posts: 368
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Quote:
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MCRA.com |
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November 14th, 2015, 02:48 PM | #14 |
n00bie to wannabie
Name: Bill
Location: St Ives, BC (Shuswap Lake)
Join Date: Sep 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250R (Red), 2005 VFR800A (Red), CRF450X (Red), 2012 F800GS (Wants to be Red!) Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Nov '15
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__________________________________________________
The Smart Money: #1 - ATGATT, #2 - Training (machine skills and survival skills), #3 - The bike; whatever floats yer boat with the money you have left over |
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
November 14th, 2015, 10:22 PM | #15 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Hansveer
Location: Bombay, India
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r - Track whore, Ninja 300 - SOLD, KTM RC390 - Orange Hulk, Ducati 899 Panigale - Red Devil. Posts: A lot.
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I don't mind losing the on-off function, just worried about the plugs matching. Also, this doesn't bypass the ignition key does it? I'll probably short the on-off thing to be always on.
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November 15th, 2015, 07:06 AM | #16 |
Motorbike Obsessed
Name: Me
Location: SoCal
Join Date: May 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Kawasaki EX250, 2004 Yamaha FZ1, 2006 Honda CRF 450 Flat Track Race Bike Posts: 133
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I would like to see the fuse box and CDI box relocated to under the seat as part of the harness. Also having the reg-rec be able to be located in the air stream would be good. This could be accomplished with some pig tails with the right male-female plugs to branch off the race harness.
I like the other features you mention. The only concern for people running in production classes is the requirement for stock harnesses. I think AFM has that in the rule book, but CVMA doesn't.
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My race Ninja build and more motorcycle content. My Motorbike Obsessions |
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November 15th, 2015, 09:24 AM | #17 |
EX500 full of EX250 parts
Name: Bill
Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold) Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Aug '15
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I'll PM you about this.
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*** Unregistered, I'm not your mom and I'm not paying for your parts, so do whatever you want with your own bike. *** |
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November 15th, 2015, 09:26 AM | #18 |
EX500 full of EX250 parts
Name: Bill
Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold) Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Aug '15
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I have a full-size copy of my cleaned up version (I'm still working on it, as my guideline for how I want to do this simplified harness), I just did a smaller animated GIF as a quick way to show just how much can be removed even just for the lights. Also, any image program that can handle animated GIFs (like GIMP) will let you open the file and see the individual frames.
Honestly, there's not much more to this image than just starting at the lights and deleting the wires that are hooked to them. It can get a little tricky around the headlight relay and the ignition switch (especially if you don't really understand how those parts are affecting the circuit), but that's about the worst of it. The vast majority of it is simply erasing the lines connected to the lights you no longer need. If I do end up actually making these harnesses, I plan to draw up a new diagram. At the very least, it'll be a cleaned up version of the stocker (like I've got now, but a little nicer). Depending on how simplified it gets and the cost to match the stock wire colors, I may end up using different colors, so I'd want to diagram those out to avoid confusion. I have yet to find a good (preferably free) program for drawing wiring diagrams though, so it might mean some manual work in a regular image program.
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*** Unregistered, I'm not your mom and I'm not paying for your parts, so do whatever you want with your own bike. *** |
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November 15th, 2015, 09:33 AM | #19 |
Participant
Name: Dave
Location: South of Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2012 Motorcycle(s): '94 K75 std Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Aug '15
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November 15th, 2015, 10:43 AM | #20 | |
EX500 full of EX250 parts
Name: Bill
Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold) Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Aug '15
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Quote:
With the lights removed, there's not much left for it to do. You have switched power going in to supply the Ignition fuse (powers the igniter and dash gauges/warning lights) and the Taillight fuse (powers the dash illumination lights, which you may not even care about on your racebike). You have constant power going in to supply the Fan (radiator) fuse. The 500/PreGen junction box includes the relays for the starter and headlight circuits and the diodes for the safety circuits, but it looks like those things are separate on the NewGen. You'd still have the 30A Main fuse to protect against electrical problems, but you'd lose the ability to see which circuit (of the 3 left on the bike) was blowing the fuse. Maybe replacing the stock fusebox with something like the 3 Circuit Solution setup would be the best of both worlds, with minimal cost (<$10). For the 500/PreGen, it might be more work than it's worth to add in the relays and diodes from the other half of the j-box (replacing what you just ripped out), but it could give you a more straightforward and modular system (I know Ghostt had the headlight relay fail in one of his j-boxes, which meant buying a whole new j-box). Without the NewGen's stock mounting brackets for all the relays and diodes, it might mean a pile of stuff just crammed under your seat though. As for relocating things, I'm trying to make this as PnP as possible. If you're stripping your bike down to the bare essentials for racing, you can probably handle mounting the boxes in a slightly different place. However, I don't want to force people to do that just to use my harness. Depending on exactly how it was relocated, it might be possible to design the harness in a way that allows you to put it in either location ("route this branch down for the stock location or up for the alternate location"). It doesn't seem to be as big an issue on the faired sportbikes with the R/R mounted higher up, but I know the Vulcans had a lot of issues with the unsealed connectors in the charging circuits. I wouldn't want to use a M-F extension just for a couple extra inches. However, it should be possible to have an option to lengthen that branch a bit, or may be even have it long enough for an alternate location while still being able to conveniently route to the stock location, as previously mentioned. If you're concerned about R/R heat, look into the MOSFET conversion. They operate in a much more efficient way and inherently generate a lot less heat while providing more stable output. As I have no experience with racing, this is something I can't comment on. I know different groups have different rules about what you can and can't change, but I'd have to leave it up to the buyer to decide if they're allowed to use this aftermarket product (just like any other they're considering). Again, I could also offer the option of modification services if you're allowed to have a minimized stock harness, but not an (electrically-identical) aftermarket harness.
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*** Unregistered, I'm not your mom and I'm not paying for your parts, so do whatever you want with your own bike. *** |
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November 15th, 2015, 10:47 AM | #21 |
EX500 full of EX250 parts
Name: Bill
Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold) Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Aug '15
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Visio would probably be better, and I could probably get access to it if I wanted to go that route.
I was hoping to find a hobbyist app that actually handled striped coloring of wires and such. I assume that there's some sort of professional software for drawing the diagrams like http://www.ex-500.com/wiki/index.php...ng_diagram.png, but I haven't really seen anything for us cheapos.
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*** Unregistered, I'm not your mom and I'm not paying for your parts, so do whatever you want with your own bike. *** |
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November 15th, 2015, 01:36 PM | #22 |
Motorbike Obsessed
Name: Me
Location: SoCal
Join Date: May 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Kawasaki EX250, 2004 Yamaha FZ1, 2006 Honda CRF 450 Flat Track Race Bike Posts: 133
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Those were thoughts I had when thinking about doing a minimalist harness for myself. Since I am trying to put together a race bike I have thought it over some. Call it market research for your idea of selling your harnesses. As for the race org rules, again just letting you know what your market is like. There are many Ninjette riders in production classes many of which require stock harnesses. The market for your product may be smaller than you would imagine. Food for thought.
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My race Ninja build and more motorcycle content. My Motorbike Obsessions |
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November 15th, 2015, 06:13 PM | #23 | |
EX500 full of EX250 parts
Name: Bill
Location: Grand Rapids-ish, MI
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): '18 Ninja 400 • '09 Ninja 500R (selling) • '98 VFR800 (project) • '85 Vulcan VN700 (sold) Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Aug '15
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Quote:
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*** Unregistered, I'm not your mom and I'm not paying for your parts, so do whatever you want with your own bike. *** |
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November 15th, 2015, 07:11 PM | #24 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Hansveer
Location: Bombay, India
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r - Track whore, Ninja 300 - SOLD, KTM RC390 - Orange Hulk, Ducati 899 Panigale - Red Devil. Posts: A lot.
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November 15th, 2015, 07:34 PM | #25 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '15
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it would be nice to remove all irrelevant wiring.
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November 23rd, 2015, 08:33 AM | #26 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Andrew
Location: St Louis
Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): Ducati 1198s, Triumph D675, Suzuki SV1000s, `08 Ninja 250, `11 Ninja 250, Suzuki GS750 Posts: 368
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Quote:
In my picture the 2 wire plug with the red and white wires going into it is the stock ignition plug. On the 390s if you tie those two together, you just hotwired a 390... Stupid easy.
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MCRA.com |
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February 23rd, 2021, 04:51 PM | #27 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Shawn
Location: 3665 Albion rd
Join Date: Sep 2020 Motorcycle(s): Lots Posts: 1
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Do sell these?
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February 24th, 2021, 11:09 AM | #28 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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Hi Shawn
I do make these on occasion. Removed wiring sections saves about 1.25 lbs. PM me for details. |
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