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Old November 9th, 2016, 06:56 AM   #1
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U.S. Election Outcome

Hey all

I've somehow ended up keeping track of your election cycle. It's been epic.

Congratulations to those of you who voted trump & condolences to those of you who didn't.

I don't think anyone knows for sure what the years ahead will be like. I hope they will be better for you all though. Specifically, I hope that there is less war & more prosperity for you all in the states.

I have a feeling that there will be greater cohesion between the UK and the USA in the coming years. For better or worse, I think Brexit & Trump are an inter-related phenomenon. I think if the UK gov does go ahead and leave the EU (as the population voted), then the UK gov will seek to build strong economic connections with the new republican government.
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Old November 9th, 2016, 08:18 AM   #2
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Thank you Akima, that's a very thoughtful post.
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Old November 9th, 2016, 04:12 PM   #3
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Old November 9th, 2016, 05:26 PM   #4
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I wish prosperity to America and Great Britain as well. There will always be a bond with the mother country.
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Old November 9th, 2016, 09:22 PM   #5
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If GB choses to align and work with the US, they will also be able to align with Russia. that would be a huge accomplishment for the world.
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Old November 10th, 2016, 04:19 AM   #6
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The big threat used to be Russia. Now the big threat is China bullying its smaller neighbors.
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Old November 10th, 2016, 06:12 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Snake View Post
The big threat used to be Russia. Now the big threat is China bullying its smaller neighbors.
China has always been a threat, they have that 100 year plan, that has been working.
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Old November 10th, 2016, 12:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake View Post
The big threat used to be Russia. Now the big threat is China bullying its smaller neighbors.
Because Russia stopped?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-south-ossetia

maybe you have something in common with Trump

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...icle-1.2733394
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Old November 10th, 2016, 06:01 PM   #9
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China has always been a threat, they have that 100 year plan, that has been working.
They have two things on their side:

1) they hold most of the U.S. Debt.

2) they are very patient and strategical.
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Old November 26th, 2016, 08:31 AM   #10
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I'm glad to see that Trump has toned down and seems to be acting more "Presidential ".
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Old November 26th, 2016, 08:48 AM   #11
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I think all the leaders could learn a lot from the ninjette site and how we the people can all get a long....
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Old November 26th, 2016, 08:54 AM   #12
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Yes I agree! But not only the leaders but everyone in everyday life can learn to get along better. There is way too much decisiveness out there today. This group against that group. Let's all just be one group. "The get along in peace" group.
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Old November 26th, 2016, 09:35 AM   #13
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Old November 26th, 2016, 12:38 PM   #14
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Thanks @akima! I agree, the Brexit vote and the Trump election are related. To me it seems more democracies are waking up to the down side of increased government control and intervention in our lives. The British people refused to sell their souls for the supposed benefits of free trade. Many Americans are tired of the increasing size, cost and interference of the federal government and its failure to improve the lives of most people.

What I find most interesting and refreshing is the utter failure of the mainstream so-called news media of both our countries to influence these decisions despite their one-sided reporting and propagandizing. It will be interesting to see if this wave of change continues with the French and German elections.

Citizens of a democracies will never be unanimous in making decisions. Different interests and different beliefs are often in direct opposition to each other and the discussion can become heated and emotional. It is important that we respect each other's constitutional rights and freedom to have their own opinions and the ability to express it.
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Old November 26th, 2016, 01:43 PM   #15
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Now, if the female French presidential contender, Marine Le Pen, gets elected she is pushing for a French Brexit. That will be epic.
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Old November 26th, 2016, 02:41 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by greenaero View Post
Thanks @akima! I agree, the Brexit vote and the Trump election are related. To me it seems more democracies are waking up to the down side of increased government control and intervention in our lives. The British people refused to sell their souls for the supposed benefits of free trade. Many Americans are tired of the increasing size, cost and interference of the federal government and its failure to improve the lives of most people.

What I find most interesting and refreshing is the utter failure of the mainstream so-called news media of both our countries to influence these decisions despite their one-sided reporting and propagandizing. It will be interesting to see if this wave of change continues with the French and German elections.

Citizens of a democracies will never be unanimous in making decisions. Different interests and different beliefs are often in direct opposition to each other and the discussion can become heated and emotional. It is important that we respect each other's constitutional rights and freedom to have their own opinions and the ability to express it.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I have heard that there is a movement for California to secede from the union. They are calling it "Calexit" and that it is due in part to he Trump election.
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Old November 26th, 2016, 03:18 PM   #17
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...she is pushing for a French Brexit. .
I assume that would be a Frexit.
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Old November 26th, 2016, 03:34 PM   #18
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If Cali did that they'd put the harp on them an have them underwater by lunch time
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Old November 27th, 2016, 05:59 AM   #19
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I'm indifferent to the election. I voted 3rd party because of course it'll be Hillary here in CA but my conscious is clear now. I'm of fighting age and registered with selective service (against my will, naturally), and I'd sooner feed myself a mouthful of buckshot than fight in a war that (with either candidate, it's a possibility) would likely be an LBJ-style dick-measuring contest or worse; I'm not going to kill or die for some asshole's ego. **** Hillary's no-fly zone and **** Trump's lack of experience. I love my country, but this is a ****-show, man.

On that note, I'm really glad I didn't join the military last year like I was considering. Dodged a bullet there (maybe literally).

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Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I have heard that there is a movement for California to secede from the union. They are calling it "Calexit" and that it is due in part to he Trump election.
I live in rural California. There's been a push for us rural Californians to separate and become a 51st state, Jefferson, as most rural Californians aren't represented well in this state. Rural CA is pretty conservative, and while I really REALLY don't agree with a lot of my neighbors' values, I think it'd be fair. I mean, look at the size of the state. Socal is different from norcal is different from where I live ("the deep north," as I call it).

So, while I get my states' (half-assed, ill-willed) desire to secede, it seems really hypocritical given the Jefferson issue.
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Old November 27th, 2016, 07:45 AM   #20
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I agree with you @MrAtom that it is a much better idea to split the state to form a 51st state than it would be to secede. Both courses of action would be difficult to get past the federal government if not impossible in the case seceding.
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Old November 27th, 2016, 08:15 AM   #21
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Thanks @akima! I agree, the Brexit vote and the Trump election are related. To me it seems more democracies are waking up to the down side of increased government control and intervention in our lives. The British people refused to sell their souls for the supposed benefits of free trade.
Great post. You forgot to put "free trade" in quotes though! Best as I can tell, all these "free trade" agreements (including NAFTA) are more about trade restrictions which create advantages for some individuals/companies and disadvantages for others. Often very large companies are the beneficiaries of these kinds of things and smaller companies are hindered.

That's just my take though. These laws are complex and I don't have the time to become highly informed on them.

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I agree with you @MrAtom that it is a much better idea to split the state to form a 51st state than it would be to secede. Both courses of action would be difficult to get past the federal government if not impossible in the case seceding.
What do you and the other Americans in here think about getting rid of the vote weighting imposed by the electoral college system for future elections? I haven't heard any good arguments as to why your vote should be worth more or less depending on which state you live in. It makes more sense to me that 1 vote should equal... 1 vote.
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Old November 27th, 2016, 08:36 AM   #22
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All other votes in the U.S. Are based on one person = one vote. So yes I think we should get rid of the electoral college for the presidential vote. They should also get rid of delegates for the primaries. Have everyone in each state vote on the same day to decide the Republican candidate, Democratic candidate, Green Party, etc.
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Old November 27th, 2016, 08:44 AM   #23
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Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I have heard that there is a movement for California to secede from the union. They are calling it "Calexit" and that it is due in part to he Trump election.
I've heard about a split in California as well. Southern Cali is going back to Mexico (might have already happened).
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Old November 27th, 2016, 08:47 AM   #24
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I've heard about a split in California as well. Southern Cali is going back to Mexico (might have already happened).
What about Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas?
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Old November 27th, 2016, 11:06 AM   #25
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All other votes in the U.S. Are based on one person = one vote. So yes I think we should get rid of the electoral college for the presidential vote.
Ah, didn't realize it was just the presidential vote that was weighted by the electoral colleges.

The British system of voting is also pretty weird. I still don't fully understand it. Some how it resulted in there being, kind-of, 2 parties in power from 2010 to 2015 over here. I can't imagine things going well if you guys ended up with both Hillary and Trump in power
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Old November 27th, 2016, 11:42 AM   #26
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Ah, didn't realize it was just the presidential vote that was weighted by the electoral colleges.

The British system of voting is also pretty weird. I still don't fully understand it. Some how it resulted in there being, kind-of, 2 parties in power from 2010 to 2015 over here. I can't imagine things going well if you guys ended up with both Hillary and Trump in power
Wow! Having both Hilary and Trump in power at the same time would be a disaster. We can't get things done now as it is.
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Old November 27th, 2016, 04:08 PM   #27
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Britain has proportional representation: each party gets the number of seats in Parliament as it gets the vote. Ten percent of the vote, ten percent of the seats. As opposed to our system of winner-take-all in that district. Proportional rep requires alliances to get a majority to get anything passed since there are multiple parties.
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Old November 27th, 2016, 05:52 PM   #28
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Great post. You forgot to put "free trade" in quotes though! Best as I can tell, all these "free trade" agreements (including NAFTA) are more about trade restrictions which create advantages for some individuals/companies and disadvantages for others. Often very large companies are the beneficiaries of these kinds of things and smaller companies are hindered.

That's just my take though. These laws are complex and I don't have the time to become highly informed on them.
It only takes 10 minutes. NAFTA is nothing like you described in the first paragraph, its entire intent was to remove the vast majority of tariffs and any other restrictions between the 3 member countries.

Trump feigns hate for it due to job loss in the manufacturing sector, so it's an easy talking point to raise the anger of those who don't know any better. The argument has additional political points for that same demographic, because all of the ills of the modern economy can be blamed on "those evil Mexicans who are taking our jobs."
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Old November 27th, 2016, 06:24 PM   #29
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I can't believe someone who won more races lost the championship! I hope they change the rules for next year. It's not fair and I think the protests will show support for the loser/multiple race winner. Inoring team orders numerous times and even trying to make the other driver get passed by two other cars which would have changed the championship.

If I put this post in the wrong thread or forum it is probably because there is no safe crybaby place for me to post and I'm so upset I can't think straight.

What are we supposed to do when we don't get our own way and it makes us so disfunctionable. I'm not sure if I can actually get out of bed and get dressed tomorrow with this championship affecting my perception of reality.

I'm sure everyone who follows F1 feels the same way I do, and if they don't, they are wrong.
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Old November 28th, 2016, 12:53 PM   #30
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Old November 28th, 2016, 04:57 PM   #31
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It only takes 10 minutes. NAFTA is nothing like you described in the first paragraph, its entire intent was to remove the vast majority of tariffs and any other restrictions between the 3 member countries.
I've spent more than 10 minutes looking into it. I don't think anybody could consider themself usefully, informed after spending that amount of time researching it. Something like NAFTA will be surrounded by propagandists (from both sides) putting down traps to mislead you. Same with the TPP.

Also: original intent is pretty-much irrelevant. What matters is what the governments actually do in response to the agreement, the resulting legal documents and how those documents are interpreted and enforced.

If it really did result in the removal of "tariffs", then I'd consider that a positive. I expect that's not all it did though.

I am personally sceptical of every proposed set of new laws. The general trend of new laws is a reduction in freedoms and by extension; a reduction in free trade.
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Old November 28th, 2016, 05:08 PM   #32
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Britain has proportional representation: each party gets the number of seats in Parliament as it gets the vote. Ten percent of the vote, ten percent of the seats. As opposed to our system of winner-take-all in that district. Proportional rep requires alliances to get a majority to get anything passed since there are multiple parties.
Nope, it's first past the post, by constituency, in the UK parliment.

Some of the odd results from the last UK election
of a total of 650 seats

UKIP got 12% of the vote & got 1 seat
Scottish Nationalists got 4.7% and got 56 seats, (all bar 3 of the Scottish seats)
The liberal democrats got 8% & 8 seats
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Old November 28th, 2016, 05:26 PM   #33
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Ah, didn't realize it was just the presidential vote that was weighted by the electoral colleges.

The British system of voting is also pretty weird. I still don't fully understand it. Some how it resulted in there being, kind-of, 2 parties in power from 2010 to 2015 over here. I can't imagine things going well if you guys ended up with both Hillary and Trump in power
It's easy enough to understand.
There's multiple parties.
1) If one gets more than 50% they can do what they like. (currently the Conservatives)
2)If nobody gets over 50% then either of the big two can make deals with others to get their support.
That usually gets them over 50% (and the main party can blame the smaller one for anything they do that doesn't sit well with their voters. The smaller one generally gets thrown to the wolves at the next election) (The Conservatives & Lib Dems last time around)
3) A group of the smaller parties can group together & push their way to over 50%... The **** usually hits the fan at this point...


Realistically the 3rd option doesn't happen in the UK because of the size of Labour & the Conservatives, but it does happen elsewhere with similar systems.
If Corbyn keeps going the way he is then this may become a possibility
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Old November 28th, 2016, 05:55 PM   #34
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UKIP got 12% of the vote & got 1 seat
Scottish Nationalists got 4.7% and got 56 seats, (all bar 3 of the Scottish seats)
The liberal democrats got 8% & 8 seats


Quote:
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It's easy enough to understand.
There's multiple parties.
1) If one gets more than 50% they can do what they like. (currently the Conservatives)
2)If nobody gets over 50% then either of the big two can make deals with others to get their support.
That usually gets them over 50% (and the main party can blame the smaller one for anything they do that doesn't sit well with their voters. The smaller one generally gets thrown to the wolves at the next election) (The Conservatives & Lib Dems last time around)
3) A group of the smaller parties can group together & push their way to over 50%... The **** usually hits the fan at this point...


Realistically the 3rd option doesn't happen in the UK because of the size of Labour & the Conservatives, but it does happen elsewhere with similar systems.
If Corbyn keeps going the way he is then this may become a possibility
Thanks.
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Old November 28th, 2016, 10:45 PM   #35
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Ok, sorry, misunderstood their system.
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Old November 29th, 2016, 12:47 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Cowboy View Post
I can't believe someone who won more races lost the championship! I hope they change the rules for next year. It's not fair and I think the protests will show support for the loser/multiple race winner. Inoring team orders numerous times and even trying to make the other driver get passed by two other cars which would have changed the championship.

If I put this post in the wrong thread or forum it is probably because there is no safe crybaby place for me to post and I'm so upset I can't think straight.

What are we supposed to do when we don't get our own way and it makes us so disfunctionable. I'm not sure if I can actually get out of bed and get dressed tomorrow with this championship affecting my perception of reality.

I'm sure everyone who follows F1 feels the same way I do, and if they don't, they are wrong.
So you think Bernie should have been there instead of Hillary with her cronies and crooked stealing of the primary
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Old November 29th, 2016, 12:48 PM   #37
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Let's just hope 2017 gets Hillary for prison, an slick willy too
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Old November 29th, 2016, 01:55 PM   #38
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