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Old July 2nd, 2020, 02:28 PM   #1
GAU-8
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5 chains in 3 months.

Today, the lil bastard has thown it's fith chain in 6 months. All chains have been thrown within 3 days of installation, with brand new sprockets with chain install. This is getting COSTLY.

The only chain NOT to throw, was actually a "JT" brand ( amazon) and it stretched itself out in a few months. ( this was the only, and first RIVET type i have ever used.)


So here is what I am lookin at. I have NEVER had an issue with the clip style master links on chains, for my prior three SECA II's, VF1000R, nor my R1.

Clip fully seated.
Head of clip in direction of rotation.
Proper slack in chain.
Wheel propererly aligned.

Does clip style master link suck today?( for sure doing rivet type only from now on) Or there something "off" on my bike? At a loss as how a 250, with little power destroying master links, but never an issue with my bigger/faster/more power bikes. :/
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Old July 2nd, 2020, 02:37 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAU-8 View Post
Today, the lil bastard has thown it's fith chain in 6 months. All chains have been thrown within 3 days of installation, with brand new sprockets with chain install. This is getting COSTLY.

The only chain NOT to throw, was actually a "JT" brand ( amazon) and it stretched itself out in a few months. ( this was the only, and first RIVET type i have ever used.)


So here is what I am lookin at. I have NEVER had an issue with the clip style master links on chains, for my prior three SECA II's, VF1000R, nor my R1.

Clip fully seated.
Head of clip in direction of rotation.
Proper slack in chain.
Wheel propererly aligned.

Does clip style master link suck today?( for sure doing rivet type only from now on) Or there something "off" on my bike? At a loss as how a 250, with little power destroying master links, but never an issue with my bigger/faster/more power bikes. :/
I believe back in the dark ages of racing we had to safety wire the master link. You could give it a try for 4 days!
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Old July 2nd, 2020, 05:10 PM   #3
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At work, at moment... I'm wondering if there are two wheel spacers, each one a specific width, and I got them swapped, so wheel alignment is straight, but offset?

Or, os the countershaft sprocket radius too tight, for a clip style master link?

The rivet style worked fine, but it was cheap and lasted only a few months, at best before total stretch.


Forgot to add/edit: same issue with my 2007 ninja 250 as well. Brand new chain, and failed within 3rd day commuting.
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Old July 2nd, 2020, 07:50 PM   #4
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The last time I threw a chain was 1973 on my pull start mini bike. Many a greasy hand, burnt leg and blistered hand from they thing. I am thinking an alignment issue.
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Old July 2nd, 2020, 08:09 PM   #5
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You're doing something seriously wrong. Figure it out. I highly suspect your definition of "Proper slack in chain" is just plain wrong. Prove to us it's not - walk through your chain adjustment routine in excruciating detail.
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Old July 2nd, 2020, 10:21 PM   #6
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Hundreds of thousands of miles here without ever throwing a chain. Something's wonky with your 250 or your chain installation/adjustment procedures.
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Old July 3rd, 2020, 01:59 AM   #7
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I agree.

Something is off, between my other personal bikes, and the MSF bikes, I work on, at my second job....SOMETHING either specific to this bike, or tools/tooling HERE (in garage) is off....(or me..but 5 times??) .. I'm a pretty specific "by the book " guy. Just got home. About to crash.

Scratches head.... Is it embarrassing? Sure, but currently, I'm at a loss at the moment. It's specifically these 2 bikes. (Mainly my 2008) My other personal bikes, are fine. Sometimes you have to ask outside sources., and say " im at a loss..whats different?" i'll be pretty busy for next two days, in about 4 hours. Sooo.. Ask away, just be patient.
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Old July 3rd, 2020, 05:25 AM   #8
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When I went from non-O-ring to O-ring chains I was amazed at how much force it took to compress the master link enough to get the clip properly into its grooves. Is there any chance you're not doing this successfully?

Are you using a magnifier of some sort to get a good look at the installed clip?

Are you putting the clip on with its sharp edge outward?

Also, I use a friend's method of keeping the link in place:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlTMKMk2CIo
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Old July 3rd, 2020, 08:44 AM   #9
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You said a rivet chain didn't throw, but it did stretch beyond usability in a few months? That leads me to guess that it's not the clip that's the root cause, but either you're installing the chain far too tight, or the alignment is way off. Tell us how you're adjusting both slack and alignment.

I don't understand the use of a clip master outside of track or some other environment where you frequently take the chain on and off though. Always rivet master for me.
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Old July 3rd, 2020, 08:53 AM   #10
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Some possibilities:

1. on new-gen, it's possible to install front sprocket backwards. Which side is step/spacer on sprocket facing?

2. only one rear axle spacer per side. Don't know if it's possible to get them backwards. Brake rotor won't fit into caliper.

3. wrong wheel spacer on left? Got mixed up with something else?

4. worn wheel bearing?

5. worn output-shaft bearing?

6. carefully inspect chain's path with bright light. Is there something rubbing on chain? Inside sprocket cover?

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; July 5th, 2020 at 11:11 AM.
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Old July 3rd, 2020, 10:03 AM   #11
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Have you checked to see if there is an excessive change in chain slack as the wheel rotates?

You want to set the slack at the tightest spot, but if the sprockets don't run true you could have way too much slack at other spots.

My first thought was incorrect alignment of the rear wheel, but you said you checked it. Might try another method just to eliminate that factor as well.
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Old July 4th, 2020, 05:15 PM   #12
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Triple Jim nailed it. Operator /master link error.


Had another rider buddy come over, look at my process. Apperently the old Mk.I eyeball (and hand strenth) isn't quite what is used to be. Went over the setup. All of the bike/alignment/slack was good. I had a few links+master links laying around, so did a few practice runs, and had him check.

I was getting the master link clip oooh so close to sitting in the seat of both, OR it was seated on one pin, but not fully on the the other.) the pins, enough for me to think it was fully seated, but it wasn't. To my eyeballs, looked seated, until a magnifying glass was used. ( the satisfying "clink" of the clip, engaging pins, was NOT the "clink" of it being seated under the pins..)

Sucks, but hey, if somebody besides myself learned something, then i'm good.

Time to update my lens RX!
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Old July 4th, 2020, 08:38 PM   #13
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I'm glad you found the solution, but... one of your comments mentioned that your chain "stretched itself out in a few months". That in itself suggests other problems besides a master link issue, likely a tensioning error.
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Old July 4th, 2020, 10:55 PM   #14
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I understand your concern, in what I posted.. But,

That was the cheapy "JT" chain and sprocket, that I mention was my first rivet set-up. My commute is exactly 840 miles between 2 jobs, and home, 7 days a week... Bad week, a little over 1000+. not including play time riding. ( my car broke down, about 7 months ago soo..every day has been ninja 250 day .. With maintenance every day)

So for it lasting 3 plus-ish months, doing the mileage math, it had a ton ( "before it stretched itself out"... ) i wasn't fussing. Just stating the cheap set did really well, but worded it wrong/not enough details.

I have a hard time communicating effectively.

Last futzed with by GAU-8; July 5th, 2020 at 12:13 AM.
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Old July 5th, 2020, 08:14 AM   #15
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Ok, well bonus points for riding the piss out of your bike!

I honestly don't have any experience with JT chains... maybe they do stretch a lot.
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Old July 5th, 2020, 08:53 AM   #16
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Ok, well bonus points for riding the piss out of your bike!

I honestly don't have any experience with JT chains... maybe they do stretch a lot.
I don't know about that, but they make decent front sprockets. I've had good luck with the reasonably priced RK chains.
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Old July 5th, 2020, 11:23 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAU-8 View Post
That was the cheapy "JT" chain and sprocket, that I mention was my first rivet set-up. My commute is exactly 840 miles between 2 jobs, and home, 7 days a week... Bad week, a little over 1000+. not including play time riding. ( my car broke down, about 7 months ago soo..every day has been ninja 250 day .. With maintenance every day)

So for it lasting 3 plus-ish months, doing the mileage math, it had a ton ( "before it stretched itself out"... ) i wasn't fussing. Just stating the cheap set did really well, but worded it wrong/not enough details.
Which model JT chain was it? Getting 10-11k-miles out of their X1R2 $20 chain is quite a good deal!
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Old July 5th, 2020, 08:48 PM   #18
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I will have to take a look, at Amazon account.

That was the one (and only ) complete kit I have purchased for this bike... Personally, I havent heard of JT before. But because of price, i assumed it was a generic brand. (Or counterfeit)

I purchased a while back, before using, so hopefully Amazon has it in history.


Will return.
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Old July 6th, 2020, 05:17 AM   #19
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Personally, I havent heard of JT before.
JT has been making sprockets for a long time. I'm not sure about chain, maybe that too.
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