Another Jeffo Problem

[caps]

I hate to say it, but I have become the latest Jeffo victim.

For those of you who are not aware Jeffo is a tuner who provides an "in-between" map. It's not an off the shelf map, but it's not exactly a custom map either (regardless of what he tells you). You send him a tiny bit of information;

Bike Year:
Bike Make:
Bike Model:
EFI Tuning Device Type:
Exhaust System:
Air Filter:
Operating Elevation in feet:
Operating Air Temp in degrees F:

and he claims to make the perfect tune for your exact situation. How he does that without the bike is a very controversial subject on many of the ZX-14 sites, but the jist is that it's slightly better than an off the shelf map - but not by much. I decided I wanted to give him a try since it's about 1/6th of the price of a local tune. I have been running his map for over a year, and I'm fairly happy with it. It runs a bit warm, but it's not horrible.

I just picked up a PC5 to replace my PC3 for a smoking deal and jumped on it. I wasn't worried about the new tune since Jeffo lists this on his site;

Free Map Support
We provide our customers with ongoing support and will provide you with updated maps if you make future modifications to your bike.


Customer Satisfaction Commitment
F.A.I.C. is completely focused on customer satisfaction. It is our number one objective. We stand behind our EFI tuning services and we are here to assist you in reaching your performanance and rideability goals. We are avid riders too, and we enjoy working with our customers to help them get the most from their EFI systems. Refund Policy

I emailed him today (since my PC5 was shipped and on it's way) and I was pretty excited


I was VERY surprised when my phone rang 20 minutes later (at 1:51pm for those of you watching time stamps). He said he had a few questions, and I had no problem with that. Then things changed a bit. He started asking my why I would purchase a PC5; he wanted to know what I paid for it, where I got it, etc.. and continued to tell me that it was a mistake. I brushed it off and told him I had already purchased it and wasn't planning to return it. I thought that would be the end of that conversation and that we would proceed from there. I was wrong.

He then spent the next 10 minutes telling me about how PC screwed everyone by adding a column (I see that as a benefit) at 15% and that he would have to build me a brand new map. I assumed he was doing this so that I would appreciate his work more (building value in your services is not a bad thing), then he started telling me about how he was raising his prices. That's when I knew he wasn't building value anymore. He told me that I would have to pay for a new map since I changed the Power Commander on my bike.

I asked him about the FREE MAP SUPPORT (quoted above, and highlighted in the screen shot below) and he proceeded to tell me that it didn't apply because I changed my "EFI system". I tried talking to him, and it didn't go well. He told me that regardless of what the site says (he also said that he would change it on the site) he would NOT be providing me the free map support.



So now I'm SOL apparently :-(

[subxero]

so he gives you an e-tune with out ever seeing any recorded data from your bike, or he pretty much just sells you one of his custom OTS maps?

Either way if he simply is selling his custom OTS maps then yes, you get a different ecu device you pay for a different map, that is generally how it works, but generally since you are a return customer they give you a minor discount.

My thought is, you still have old ecu device (PC) it is of no use to you and you have his map installed on it which is no longer of use to you. Assuming the maps he sends you are 1 use type things with copyright, meaning you can't make copies and then money off of it by reselling his map unless you get rid of your PC.
Now since you can't use it anymore you can simply sell the PC along with the map for some added value as it is of no use to you therefore taking away from his business and you are making money on it. He now has to charge for the new map to make up for profit loss + work he needs to put into designing new map otherwise what stops people with PC4's with his map already from just buying a new PC5 or whatever, get him to give you new map for free (which would cost someone IDK? $60 for a new customer and then sell the new PC5 + that map to someone else who needs a PC for $40-$50 bucks profit and keep the PC4 for yourself?


IDK if this makes any sense but I see no problem with him charging for a completely different map for a completely different ecu.

I have a wrx and have used OTS maps from big companies and private tuners. Private tuners will give you free e-tunes of your maps you purchase if you send them data no questions asked BUT, if you upgrade your mods and need say stage 2 map instead of stage 1 map you are going to have to pay for it.

P.S. if he is e-tuning your map for your bike with out any pull data I would stop using this guy, that is playing with fire and he is just guessing, do it right go get a pro tune or send him data logs

[caps]

You lost me about half way through, I still have the PC3 with the map on it. And it's not locked in any way, I can modify/copy it as I see fit.

[caps]

So I just downloaded the software for the PCV. This guy is a piece of work. He wanted me to pay for a new map for him to click File-> Import PC3USB Map



That's literally all it took. It even filled in the 15% column he was complaining about!

[subxero]

If you can copy and duplicate and do what ever to your map I don't understand how he makes any money? why not just share it with each other once 1 person buys one?

I hope your copy and paste is all there is to it, I guess you will find out soon enough.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by caps

You lost me about half way through, I still have the PC3 with the map on it. And it's not locked in any way, I can modify/copy it as I see fit.

yeah I think I lost myself at about this point as well.