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Old August 21st, 2009, 07:45 PM   #41
gamma500
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I think I get as much pleasure wrenching on things these days as I do riding them, bikes and cars. Bought the bike used w/ 2400 miles 2 weeks ago and it's been apart for most of the time while I "bond" with it. Carburates awfully well stock but may shim the needles 1 washer with the new advance curve you turned me onto. Other than these areas, will put a SS ft. brake line and set of EBC HH's on her and start leaving some BT-45 rubber on the roads of western NC. Already Amsoil'd her innards.

Thanks for the eBay heads up..as I PM'd, I have 2 auctions bid on so I hope to nail one of them or even both if the price is right.

Thank you for your help BTW..of the 4 Ninja 250R Forums I've joined, your site has been the one I turn to first.

Added a picture/avatar of the bike..too bad the photo of my Coon Hound is too large!

Last futzed with by gamma500; August 23rd, 2009 at 03:29 PM.
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Old August 21st, 2009, 08:05 PM   #42
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Craig it's great to see you posting with us - you should post over in the new members section so we can give you a proper welcome!
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 03:37 PM   #43
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'92 harness, 21119-1229 CDI both coming off eBay..The "Beav" is sending the male connector that will fit the female wiring harness connectors on my '08. Hopefully will get everything so things will be up and running by Friday.

I did go ahead and add 1 washer to the carb needles. Idiot that I am, I didn't think to synch them while I had everything off but the motor purrs pretty well as is.
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 04:13 PM   #44
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Has anyone opened a failed ignitor box yet? Just wondering if they filled it with glue like they used to do.
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 04:54 PM   #45
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I haven't had my 08 CDI fail per se but it do the rpm/mph fluctuation during 90 degree stop & go traffic on I-85 outside of Atlanta so I'm not going to open her up...the more aggressive advance curve that this 88-94 CDI supplys is something I can't pass up. Basically Stopisi (?) is selling for $330.00 a unit which does this same thing plus jumps the rev limiter up a bit.
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 05:27 PM   #46
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The '88-94 has a higher rev limit, also!
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 05:33 PM   #47
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A Win-Win deal all around for poco dinaro and a bit of wrenching.
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 05:37 PM   #48
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I rode for 2 hours again today and filled up with gas. No detonation so far. Of course, no squirrely tachometer, either! Received the $16 crimper yesterday, but no connectors, yet.
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 06:34 PM   #49
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Glad to hear the electronics are still behaving. I'll probably splurge for 89 octane since the 08+ has higher compression (I believe) than the gen1 engines, I'll be at altitude most of the time, and I am running stock jets.
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Old August 25th, 2009, 09:50 PM   #50
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Sam,

What octane gas are you running?
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Old August 26th, 2009, 12:10 AM   #51
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Boy o'boy what is goin on here? Its been awhile since I've been on forum. Can anyone get me up to speed on this thread please?
So far I'm gathering theres a fix to the tach problem by using a CDI off of an older model and maybe a performance gain or something to boot. Is this true or is there a catch?
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Old August 26th, 2009, 03:33 AM   #52
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Quote:
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sam,

what octane gas are you running?
87
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Old August 26th, 2009, 03:40 AM   #53
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Can anyone get me up to speed on this thread please?
Nope, you will have to read it yourself!

So far I'm gathering theres a fix to the tach problem by using a CDI off of an older model and maybe a performance gain or something to boot.

There is a fix to the CDI problem, which in turn makes the tach display the correct info. Not just ANY older model, but an '88-94 version.

Not positive if there is a performance gain, but the engine seems to have regained the performance that was being lost by the '09 CDI.

Is this true or is there a catch?

True, the only catch is you need a wiring harness from an '88-94 to match the CDI! You also have to follow the wiring instructions posted in this thread.
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Old August 26th, 2009, 03:51 AM   #54
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All I can say is WOW! I went for a ride after dinner last night, after finally getting my Softub put back together. Can't wait to use it tonight. Anyway, I got carried away (not paying attention to the tach) and opened the bike up in first gear! After the jolt wore off, I glanced at the tach and it was heading toward 14K. I quickly shifted and it was flying past 12K. Since I was in a 45 MPH zone and I had already left all the traffic behind, I decided it might not be a good idea to be standing out like that!

Bottom line, I have to keep telling myself "You didn't buy this bike to race it. You bought it to improve your riding and have fun!" Boy, that sure was fun. I wonder how it would feel with an Area-P exhaust? Hmmmm!
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Old August 26th, 2009, 11:11 AM   #55
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Still waiting for the CDI and connector to show up..After looking for CDI(ignitors) on eBay, seems like there are a myriad of part numbers for boxes fairly close in years. I got the 11119-1229 reco'd by Sam but anybody know what are different about the other CDI's with different 21119-****'s numbers , all for 1st Gen Ninja 250's which as far as I can see have the same engines/setups ?
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Old August 26th, 2009, 02:56 PM   #56
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Quote:
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Still waiting for the CDI and connector to show up..After looking for CDI(ignitors) on eBay, seems like there are a myriad of part numbers for boxes fairly close in years. I got the 11119-1229 reco'd by Sam but anybody know what are different about the other CDI's with different 21119-****'s numbers , all for 1st Gen Ninja 250's which as far as I can see have the same engines/setups ?
You can look up the part #s for different years here (all start 21119-xxxx):

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=959

The 2 you're concerned with are posted in earlier posts (CA and US). The -1229 is the one to have.
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Old August 26th, 2009, 06:57 PM   #57
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87
Thanks for the confirmation. I'm using the BRT TIS right now and I have the timing advanced to 44 but I'm running on premium with no pinging so I should be fine.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 06:41 AM   #58
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Thanks for the confirmation. I'm using the BRT TIS right now and I have the timing advanced to 44 but I'm running on premium with no pinging so I should be fine.
ken,
with the TIS, you have an option of switching map with a switch. I would program one for 87 octane and another map for 93 octane
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Old August 27th, 2009, 08:39 AM   #59
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ken,
with the TIS, you have an option of switching map with a switch. I would program one for 87 octane and another map for 93 octane
John,

The switch assembly looks flimsy and I have the Woodcraft clip-ons so the only way really to install it is on the inboard bar-ends, which isn't secure because you can just slip it off... and it looks cheesy. The engine runs smoother and power can be felt so there's no way I'm going back
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Old August 27th, 2009, 11:43 AM   #60
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just put the switch in your rear seat and flip it whenever you're on 87 (as back up). You don't want to mount it anywhere that you might accidentally touch it and swap out the map.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 02:14 PM   #61
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Make your own harness

I was able to fit the switch on the left clip on .
It works well there for me

This is a photo of the wires coming out of the 88-94 ignition box . If you are going to the trouble of weather proofing the harness . You can just make your own with separate sealed plugs. DON"T mix the wires up though . That is the advantage of buying the used harness and having the plug. But if you don't want to buy a harness you can make your own.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 08:25 AM   #62
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Installing the weather proof connectors

Waterproof (sealed) Connector Crimping (Copied from Eastern Beaver)
http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/El...as/extras.html

======
Start by putting the rubber seals on all the wires. Put them far enough back so you can crimp it. If you are soldering, put them further back to avoid heat.



Here's a closeup of a properly crimped terminal. If you are bending the tabs and soldering, be careful to solder only a bit at the crimp. Do not get solder beyond the end of the wire or it won't insert properly. Also, try not to heat the wire insulation too much, or it will melt.


Note, in these photos the seals are left outside the terminal crimp. Crimping over the seals requires some fancy crimpers that most DIYers don't have. It's not necessary to do this, you can still get a good seal by pushing the seal in behind the terminal.



Note the position of the connector here. The terminals will only go in one way. You'll find out when you insert the first one. This photo shows proper orientation on this 2 position connector. Slide the seal up to the terminal.



When the terminal clicks in the rubber seal will still be sticking out. Use a dull screwdriver to gently push them in slightly below the connector edge.



Once you get the first two in place, be careful to make sure the matching wires align red to red, black to black. In a 3 or 4 position connector it's more complex. Note that the connector bodies are lined up with the locking parts aligned.



Notice here that the bottom rubber seal is pushed in a bit too much. Try and get them just below the connector edge like the top one.


The rubber seal is actually supposed to be crimped under the strain relief tabs, but that requires a very special crimper made just for this job. If you're using pliers on the tabs, you could do it like you see below. It's not necessary for a perfect crimp on the seal, as long as the seal is carefully pushed in far enough.


Removing a terminal after insertion is pretty easy if you have a very small thin bladed screwdriver. There's a small plastic tab inside the housing just above the terminal that needs to be lifted slightly to release the terminal
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Old August 28th, 2009, 08:41 AM   #63
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I was hoping you would correct that, the seal should be crimped under the taps of the terminal. This ensures the seal won't back out with vibration, or strain on the connector.

I would advise that you crimp it with the seal under the tabs (I design these for a living, so I have some experience )
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Old August 28th, 2009, 08:41 AM   #64
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Sam,

Great pictures...how long did your connectors from Beaver take to show up ? Out of curiousity, what are you using these connectors for...I only got the 8 pin male for the 08 connector to use the older harness on.

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Old August 28th, 2009, 08:53 AM   #65
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I saw camaroZ's post about the seal being crimped under the connector...the correct way I'm sure if you have the right tool but interestingly the connectors on my BMW have the seal "free" and stuffed in so when you unlock the pins the seals slide off.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 07:41 PM   #66
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Craig - The connectors came from Japan and took a week! I also bought a female 2 wire connector that I was going to use to replace the wire wrap I have on the sidestand cable. Then I could unplug my "jumper" and replug to the sidestand, if I need to reinstall the OEM CDI for warranty issues down the road. I also bought a set male/female 2 wire connector to replace the OEM ones on my left rear turn signal (loose connection within the connectors!).Turns out the 2 wire connector for the sidestand is wrong. It's not oval and symetrical like the "white" one in the pictures I posted on crimping. The one in the picture is what I need.

The 8 way connector I received is the correct one for the OEM '08+ wiring harness, so I will be able to install it sometime this weekend.

Ryan - The crimping instructions are from Eastern Beaver and I am going to crimp the seal under the taps, along with soldering the first crimp (toward the tip).
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Old August 29th, 2009, 08:54 AM   #67
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Prior to starting on the "plug 'n play" harness for the CDI, I decided to practice crimping, etc. on the "jumper" connector for the sidestand switch bypass. As I mentioned earlier, per the thread that kkim posted, last week I disconnected the sidestand switch from the main harness. I then removed the connector from the main harness, which left the 2 male pins exposed. I then used a piece (1") of insulated wire to wrap the 2 pins together and wrapped this with electrical tape.

This morning I decided to see if the new 2 pin connectors male/female would work with the OEM pins. I wanted to construct a jumper using both ends of one wire. The pins fit perfectly into the male connector. Unfortunately, the crimper tool that I purchased from Oregon Motorcycle is tooooooooooo wide for these pins. I discovered this while crimping the first connector. The tool formed the the first crimp into a perfect circle around the 16 gauge RED (on purpose so it would show in the picture below) wire, but the second crimp position of the connector interferred (tool too wide) and kept the crimp from being real tight. I simply used a needle nose plier to crimp it more and then soldered the first position.

For the second crimp position, I straightened the connector as best I could and slid the rubber seal into position and crimped the seal and the wire together. Because the tool is so wide, it elongated the seal, causing the seal to not sit flush once inserted into the connector.

When I started work on the other end of the jumper, I tried positioning the tool away from the seal crimp position and in so doing screwed the tip of the connector beyond repair. I'm glad Eastern Beaver sent me a spare (free) set of male/female pins! I decided to use the needle nose pliers and form the first crimp position into a circle around the stripped wire and then crimped the circle via the needle nose pliers and soldered that connection. Using the crimping tool, I simply crimped the second position without the seal in place. I then inserted the second pin and slid the seal into position.

Next, I inserted the "jumper" (female) connector into the main harness connector (replaced above) and tried to start the engine. The engine started normally.

Here is the finished product:



The blue arrow points to the connector for the sidestand switch.

After I took the picture, I stuffed the harness behind the idle knob. I wish now that I would have used a black wire, but I wanted it to show better in the picture. I may have to spray it black .... later.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 09:36 AM   #68
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I wish now that I would have used a black wire, but I wanted it to show better in the picture. I may have to spray it black .... later.
Sharpie - ftw I had no black when I was doing my electrical work on the rear, so I used a purple sharpied to black
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Old August 29th, 2009, 03:02 PM   #69
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Got the 8 pin connector and made the harness adaptor...sidestand mod per Sam and started up on the first kick. Haven't driven the bike that much before this was done so can't say that I noticed a lot of difference. Certainly ran well and a bit more responsive in the midrange with the 1 washer added. I needle nose crimped the proximal clips and soldered the distal clip and pinched them...forgot to put the yellow seperator in before inserting the pins but didn't want to screw them all up by trying to remove them with my homemade pin remover which has worked just fine in the past.

Braided front brake line and EBC HH pads should arrive Monday, flushed the rear brake with new fluid. Got a Manta tank bag to carry my work stuff and will try some commuting if the afternoon thunder showers out here let up as Fall approaches. Probably will leave the rest alone..have enjoyed the aftermarket exhaust/jet kit on former rides but the time and trouble/$$$$ doesn't seem worth it for me with this little Buzzer. Might go for the 15 tooth front sprocket to cut highway rpms a tad and adjustable lever (brake) so I can 2 finger without pinching my handle bar remaining three as I blip the throttle.

DJD in shoulders from a Thruway get off quite a few years ago and a few off track excursions would make clip-ons and rearsets torture unless I set up an Alleve IV drip !

Thanks for the great pictures and data needed to do the "advanced timing curve" mod

Amazing how the stock well nuts rot so quickly.

Found a place on line, www.clipsandfasteners.com , where I ordered #25 10-32 Well nuts for 3/8" holes for $9.99 + $3.90 shipping. They say these match the 5mm x 1.0 pitch but ain't so..a quick run through with a tap, easy with the bronze nut, made them perfectly usable and for a good price.


Cheers
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Old August 29th, 2009, 03:17 PM   #70
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Sharpie - ftw I had no black when I was doing my electrical work on the rear, so I used a purple sharpied to black
Thanks Kim - I had a black marks a lot handy and it worked perfectly.

Craig - Congrats on multiple successful mods. After cleaning the gutters and painting the house front door, I decided to ride instead of hooking up the 8 pin CDI connector. I passed the 2100 mile mark on the way home! It's supposed to rain tomorrow so maybe I will do the harness then.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 03:23 PM   #71
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Couldn't have done it without you..also thanks to the rest of you who gave me feedback and assistance. Grazie a tutti !
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Old August 29th, 2009, 07:17 PM   #72
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Well, now we have three post gens converted via pre gen CDIs! Who will be #4? Any predictions?
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Old August 29th, 2009, 08:43 PM   #73
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Quote:
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John,

The switch assembly looks flimsy and I have the Woodcraft clip-ons so the only way really to install it is on the inboard bar-ends, which isn't secure because you can just slip it off... and it looks cheesy. The engine runs smoother and power can be felt so there's no way I'm going back

Ya the switch is one thing I wish were different in the kit. It seems out of place. At 44 adv your being redundant. I would back it down to 42.5 unless your screwing with the cam timing.
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Old August 30th, 2009, 07:55 AM   #74
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Ya the switch is one thing I wish were different in the kit. It seems out of place. At 44 adv your being redundant. I would back it down to 42.5 unless your screwing with the cam timing.
so how exactly are you programming the TIS? 42.5 from 6000rpm all the way to redline?
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Old August 30th, 2009, 08:27 AM   #75
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I am starting to wonder if something like the Microsquirt could be used in an ignition only mode. Then you could make maps determined by not just RPM but by engine load, and set yourself up for gathering the parts to convert to fuel injection.

http://www.microsquirt.info/

Not a drop in device and more expensive, but might be worth it to some people.

http://www.diyautotune.com/ to order the Microsquirt.
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Old August 30th, 2009, 02:23 PM   #76
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John I'm at 41 until 9500 rpm then went from 39 to 40 for that spot. Then 41 the rest of the way.12000 up on the tis comes programmed at 40 so I went to 41 per Bram's advice. If you were to go to 42.5 I would only do it over 12000 rpm. otherwise its like putting more water in an already full barrel. there no use or point.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 06:19 PM   #77
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MOTM - Sep '18, Feb '16
Tomorrow I am going to the dyno. Using the BRT_TIS Ignition system .I have the bike set up so the first run will be with the 35 deg like the stock ICU . Then map two will be the 42 deg like the 88-94 ICU . After that I will start fooling around with jetting and timing till we get a HP peak . Should be fun to see the difference on paper. It feels better and went faster in the 1/4 mile .but seeing it on paper will be interesting
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Old August 31st, 2009, 10:00 PM   #78
randomwalk101
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Good luck with the dynotune. Be sure to get the a/f ratio too to make sure your carb is spot on. Keep us updated
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Old September 1st, 2009, 02:01 PM   #79
Racer x
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MOTM - Sep '18, Feb '16
Just back from the dyno .
I ran the bike on rocket 100 so the results will vary with pump gas. But with the 35 deg BTDC the bike made 29.23 hp with 42 deg the bike jumped to 30.02 hp and a lot more torque.Both runs had a power drop at 7-10 K .Since I have the BRT_TIS ignition system I was able to bump the timing up to 43 and 45 deg in those areas and the flat spot was gone. then a couple deg above 10 and I ended my morning with 32.69hp off the rear wheel and 17+ ft lb of torque. So switching the ignition from stock to the 88-94 is worth about 1 hp but 4 ft lb of torque . That is enough to feel .
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Old September 1st, 2009, 02:08 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer x View Post
Just back from the dyno .
I ran the bike on rocket 100 so the results will vary with pump gas. But with the 35 deg BTDC the bike made 29.23 hp with 42 deg the bike jumped to 30.02 hp and a lot more torque.Both runs had a power drop at 7-10 K .Since I have the BRT_TIS ignition system I was able to bump the timing up to 43 and 45 deg in those areas and the flat spot was gone. then a couple deg above 10 and I ended my morning with 32.69hp off the rear wheel and 17+ ft lb of torque. So switching the ignition from stock to the 88-94 is worth about 1 hp but 4 ft lb of torque . That is enough to feel .
Sorry, you lost me here..can you explain what you meant by "a couple degrees above 10.."? Great info and thanks for doing the hard work getting some data.
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