Urgent~ advice regarding Break in with semi-synthetic Oil

[wayanlam]

hmm ok, im almost at 50 Km since i got my bike yesterday so i swung by the dealer/mechanics during lunch earlier, and bough 2 filters and Oil, i plan to change @ 50~60km, then again at around 290Km, and again at 500Km. for a clean break in (that's what richard from race-bike-rentals suggests and i think it sounds like a good schedule 30miles-150miles-150miles).



however when they handed me the oil that they supply (and what i already have in my bike from the dealer) to my horror i saw that its a semi synthetic oil... after reading Motoman's break in method, and having him say that for the break in its essential to use petrolium car oil :S this is from his website:

3 more words on break- in:
NO SYNTHETIC OIL !!

Use Valvoline, Halvoline, or similar 10 w 40 Petroleum Car Oil for at least
2 full days of hard racing or 1,500 miles of street riding / driving.
After that use your favorite brand of oil.

now, my question is; can i (im guessing i cant) at this point switch to a petrolium based oil to finish of my break in, or do i stick with this oil for now, and then change to full synthetic oil later on down the road once ime done with the break in (at like 1000~2000 Km)?

on the other hand i read in http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/NewBike.html that the person says: If you simply can't bring yourself to use a synthetic in a new engine, use Chevron Delo-400. does that mean that they recommend synthetic oil for the break in? argh.... loosing the plot soon...

any advice would be greatly appreciated, im trying to put all the different advice's that people have posted about the break in and put it into one user friendly method (for me that is). but already im running into complications

cheers~!
W.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by wayanlam

however when they handed me the oil that they supply (and what i already have in my bike from the dealer) to my horror i saw that its a semi synthetic oil...

mind explaining that? how is it you already have semi synth in your bike from the dealer?

[wayanlam]

well they deliver the bike to your house with oil, and some fuel, so that you can hop on the bike and go for a spin.

but i remember when i bought my other ninja (the 2 stroke model) the oil that they used (the engine oil) was not synthetic. it was a petrolium based 4 stroke engine, and i later switched to synthetic after like 1000 Km.

i thought that since it was the same dealer as my last bike, they would use the same non-synthetic/semi synthetic oil as my last bike upon delivery...

but i assumed wrongly.

any thoughts of what i should do at this point? :P

[kkim]

the bikes come from the factory already filled with conventional oil. the dealer simply takes the bike out of the crate and sells it to you, so unless your dealer drained the factory oil out and refilled it w/ semi synth, you have conventional oil in the bike.

I would buy some conventional oil and proceed with the break in as you planned. You can always use the semi synth later when you are out of the break in period.

[wayanlam]

hmm.... that makes sence, since its very likely that the counter girl that sold me the sem-synth, didnt have a clue as to what she said, and thought that the bikes already came with that oil?

also the standard service according to the manual is that they do the first oil change after 500 Km. which would mean that the break-in period is well past, and that semi synth would not hurt the engine at that point.

ok, ill go buy some normal petrolium based oil tomorrow (got the day off ) and do my first oil change. what viscosity do you suggest? i live in the tropics so it never gets cold, atm average temp is like 20~30 degrees Celsius, the semi-synth that they sold me is 10-40, do i get the same?

thank you kelly for the feedback

[kkim]

look in your owner's manual to be sure, but I used a 10w-40 conventional oil here in Hawaii during break in.
changed my oil/filter 3 times in the first 600 miles.

switched to a full synthetic at 1000 miles.

[HKr1]

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...ics/Myths.aspx

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...ycle_Oils.aspx

[noche_caliente]

Originally Posted by wayanlam

however when they handed me the oil that they supply (and what i already have in my bike from the dealer) to my horror i saw that its a semi synthetic oil... after reading Motoman's break in method, and having him say that for the break in its essential to use petrolium car oil :S this is from his website:

My guess is that the girl just screwed up - I'd call them and see if they'll swap with you. The other thing is that I strongly disagree with the part about CAR oil. You should be looking for MOTORCYCLE oil as the two are different. The bike oil lubricates more than just the engine and is designed with that in mind, while car oils are not.

[wayanlam]

well i looked up the user manual, and it says:

oil type: kawasaki genuine oil api service SL & JASO MA

Viskosity: sae 10w-40

doesnt say its synthetic, or semi synthetic, but the code is almost the same as the semi-synth that i got, which is : SL MA 10w40

gah... this is annoying

edited,
on after thought:

i just talked to the dealer, and they said that the bike comes with the kawasaki oil (the one i bought and posted the picture of) again im not sure if they know what they are talking about.

but the guy told me that he has had the experience where someone used a non kawasaki oil after they bought their bike (not the ninja, but also kawasaki, and also with the standard kawasaki oil). and they had to take down the engine completely to fix it.

at this point im really not sure... i risk ruining my engine if i go with petrolium based if the idiots put in synthetic oil at the assembly plant -.-

i just e-mailed directly to the head department of kawasaki here in indonesia, i hope i can get an answer from them, lol


oh, and i read on the local Indonesian forums, that someone did bring up the hard break in method, and that for the first 1500 miles you should use mineral/petrolium based oil, this means that in fact that the bikes are shipped out of the factory with non synthetic oil (which would make sence). but still waiting to hear back from the e-mail i sent.

[kkim]

believe me, they put the cheapest conventional oil they can buy into the bikes at the factory.

[NaughtyusMaximus]

Your dealer is full of crap.

[krazygluon]

Given how many "synthetics" are really just hydrocracked group 3's (read: heavily modified petroleum) even our beloved rotella t 5w40.

I highly doubt running semi-syn is going to cause your bike much anguish. Its probably a group II group III mix with none of the ultraprotective true synthetic molecules that motoman is warning us to stay away from.

Double the likelihood of this if its dealer oil, which will be a rebrand of whatever major supplier the OEM could strike the lowest bid with.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by krazygluon

Given how many "synthetics" are really just hydrocracked group 3's (read: heavily modified petroleum) even our beloved rotella t 5w40.

I highly doubt running semi-syn is going to cause your bike much anguish. Its probably a group II group III mix with none of the ultraprotective true synthetic molecules that motoman is warning us to stay away from.

Double the likelihood of this if its dealer oil, which will be a rebrand of whatever major supplier the OEM could strike the lowest bid with.

so, did you run a "synthetic" in your bike during break in?

[wayanlam]

well next problem ive run into now, lol....

i cant find petrolium-mineral based engine oil that is 10w-40.

all i can find is 15w-50 (from a brand that doesnt look so reliable) or a repsol 20-50.

all the 10-40s are semi, or full synthetic.

wth do i buy? >.<

[mick37]

Originally Posted by kkim

believe me, they put the cheapest conventional oil they can buy into the bikes at the factory.

And that is why I did my first oil and filter change after only 60 miles from brand new.
Bisides I have no idea how long that oil has sat in the engine,it's a 2009 but it could have been built in late 2008,for the price of a filter and less than two quarts of oil it's cheap insurance.
And I hear car oil is bad for motorcycle clutches.mick

[kkim]

Originally Posted by wayanlam

well next problem ive run into now, lol....

i cant find petrolium-mineral based engine oil that is 10w-40.

all i can find is 15w-50 (from a brand that doesnt look so reliable) or a repsol 20-50.

all the 10-40s are semi, or full synthetic.

wth do i buy? >.<

How hot is it there this time of the year?

[wayanlam]

Originally Posted by kkim

How hot is it there this time of the year?

its quite warm, like lowest is 23~ to max 30 Celsius, that's like about 70 to 85 Fahrenheit?

im at the verge of changing the oil with just the oil they suggest (semi synthetic) from the dealer. i got a one last possibility to maybe find mineral 10-40, but that shop is expensive, and a little far from here, lol

[kkim]

can you find straight 40w conventional oil? that would do.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Which_o...NOT_be_used%3F

[wayanlam]

yea, i saw some that was just 40w, without the 10, or 15 in front.

so that would work as well?

[wyckedflesh]

Look for oil recommended for Diesel engines. That is what the Rotella that was mentioned before is. Try one of the truck part supplies.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by wayanlam

yea, i saw some that was just 40w, without the 10, or 15 in front.

so that would work as well?

that should work without a problem with the temps you have there, but I can't come up with any supporting documentation in the owner's or service manual for our bikes.

[wayanlam]

well its done, ended up getting a non synthetic 20-50 oil that i knew would be jenuine, since the other places that sold the w40 oil seems a little dodgy, and its known that people refill used bottle with low low grade oil and resell them as if they were the original (and yes, they get the proper top and seal, so its not noticeable until after you've started using it in the bike).

there were no complications with the oil change, sept that i don't have a tension wrench, so just did it by feel... id be surprised if any mechanic even has one here, in the 12 years that ive been riding a bike and bringing it in to service at a mechanics, ive never seen one, let alone one being used, lol

tempted to buy one though, saw a digital tension wrench for like $250... which is still a little out of my budget atm. then there are the ones for 20 buks, which i don't want to buy either, cos im sure they wont work right >.<

however i bought me a spanner set, from size 6 through to 22. and a set of hex keys to start with.

still got a long way to having a complete set to work with. the shop i went to today asked if im opening a mechanic place, since i always go to the same place to buy tools for work as well, lol.

could anyone by chance post a picture of their complete tool set? maybe if you have it mounted on a wall or something? so i can go through it, and tick off all the things as i buy them.

thanks everyone for the feedback on the oil issue.

[Elfling]

Originally Posted by kkim

look in your owner's manual to be sure, but I used a 10w-40 conventional oil here in Hawaii during break in.
changed my oil/filter 3 times in the first 600 miles.

switched to a full synthetic at 1000 miles.

Yep- that's the schedule I'm familiar with for new bikes.

[wayanlam]

Originally Posted by Elfling

Yep- that's the schedule I'm familiar with for new bikes.

aiming for that schedule as well;

i changed the 1st oil at 70 Km, after semi hard break in (didn't pass much over 9k rpm) the filter was nice n dirty, the oil full of metal particles, and i let the bike drip dry for a long time. even held it up perfectly straight a couple times (since i don't have a stand yet), and noticed that extra oil came out that wouldn't have if i had left it standing even slightly slanted (had blocks under the kickstand).

next oil chage will be at around 300 Km (so another 230 Km since 1st change) another filter and fresh petroleum based oil.

then again at around 550Km, which is when i actually have the first scheduled maintenance according to the dealership.

i wont change to synthetic till around 1500~2000 Km

anyone have any bad experience going with full synthetic? cos the standard oil that kawasaki supplies here is the semi synthetic, and I've read people saying that their clutch slips when they switched to full synthetic...?

[krazygluon]

Originally Posted by kkim

so, did you run a "synthetic" in your bike during break in?

All depends on what mileage you still call "break in"

0-300: OEM filler

300-600: Valvoline 10w40 cause I wasn't going to waste rotella T on 300 miles

600-1000: Dealer bulk cause they did my 600 mile service as part of my maintenance plan (got suckered into it because of the offer of free tire/wheel replacement from pothole damage, which is a big thing in Michigan)

1k: rotella T syn.

Future:
3750: rotella t or dealer synthetic, whichever they're willing to put in.