Dies at higher speeds/slowing down from higher speeds - Page 2

Felipe the Ant · April 15th, 2012, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFranchise216

Sweet. Thanks for the info bro. A couple of my typical newbie questions: Am I ordering the "OEM EQUIVALENT keihin jets" from the right side of the page? I think that's what Blue was saying. And by "needles," you mean? I have an idea but want to make sure.

I'll order the jets and get this going. It can't hurt.

See what you have in there already, unless you don't mind ending up with a spare set of jets

choneofakind · April 15th, 2012, 08:08 PM

I use the oem equivalent 108's and have no problems. You can also use the Genuine Keihin jets on the left of the page as well. Your choice.

The needles are in your carbs. They slide up and down with the slide as more air flows through your carbs. This is because they're Constant Velocity carbs, and a larger amount of air needs a larger hole to flow at the same speed. #headspinningfactualoverload sorry.

Don't worry about the needles. You'll find those once you open up the carbs. They're in the top

TheFranchise216 · April 15th, 2012, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felipe the Ant

If you were too rich you'll never get it started with the choke, you'll just make it worse. When you flood it you start it by winding the throttle open and trying to start it.

If your mixture was off enough to make a difference you'd know immediately because it'll run like a bag of ****.

That's exactly what it was doing before the airbox went back in. But that part seems to be taken care of now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felipe the Ant

My guess is a vacuum leak causing the petcock to not be fully open at higher rpm. You can verify this by putting the petcock on prime and riding once you figure out how to replicate the issue. OR your float valves are gunked up not allowing enough flow at higher rpm, draining the bowls. Your floats are ok where they are because it runs

EDIT: I read the first post again and your bowls wont fill by letting it sit, sounds like you actually are rich

Could you explain your EDIT more? I'm still not exactly on point with the tech-talk just yet. What would suggest to do?

TheFranchise216 · April 15th, 2012, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felipe the Ant

See what you have in there already, unless you don't mind ending up with a spare set of jets

Can't hurt to have a spare and a nice fresh set, right?

choneofakind · April 15th, 2012, 08:11 PM

eh, jets are only a few dollars each. Spare jets are never a bad thing.

TheFranchise216 · April 15th, 2012, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

The needles are in your carbs. They slide up and down with the slide as more air flows through your carbs. This is because they're Constant Velocity carbs, and a larger amount of air needs a larger hole to flow at the same speed. #headspinningfactualoverload sorry.

Don't worry about the needles. You'll find those once you open up the carbs. They're in the top

Needles that are going through the center of the diaphragm then? That's what I thought. Just not sure where to place the washers exactly. Someone needs to create diagrams for all this stuff lol.

choneofakind · April 15th, 2012, 08:15 PM

This should explain a lot:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11963

EDIT: this should help too.
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Carburetor_photos

TheFranchise216 · April 15th, 2012, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

This should explain a lot:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11963

You're good at this finding stuff thing.

You said you had a Muzzy also earlier. How's yours set up? Airbox or pods? I'm assuming you use those jets you suggested to me. I ask bc since I have to take the airbox out to do the carbs, should I go with pods while I'm there?

Felipe the Ant · April 15th, 2012, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFranchise216

Could you explain your EDIT more? I'm still not exactly on point with the tech-talk just yet. What would suggest to do?

I was having second thoughts. How much cranking did you do to get it started again? If you tried a little bit and let it sit and then it started right up then it would have been flooded, but if you had to crank it forever you could have had dry bowls like I originally thought. You'd also be able to tell if it was flooded because it'd smell like a gas station

TheFranchise216 · April 15th, 2012, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felipe the Ant

I was having second thoughts. How much cranking did you do to get it started again? If you tried a little bit and let it sit and then it started right up then it would have been flooded, but if you had to crank it forever you could have had dry bowls like I originally thought. You'd also be able to tell if it was flooded because it'd smell like a gas station

It was more of revving the throttle to catch and it would try to bog out so I'd rev again, etc.. until it stayed put. I wouldn't necessarily do exactly that anymore but at the time I did to get it going bc I didn't know better. But it did smell like gas after running it.. more than I thought it should.

Felipe the Ant · April 15th, 2012, 08:36 PM

Eh, it could go either way. It's hard to say without being there. Check your jets and let us know what you find. Look at the brand as well as the size

choneofakind · April 15th, 2012, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFranchise216

You're good at this finding stuff thing.

You said you had a Muzzy also earlier. How's yours set up? Airbox or pods? I'm assuming you use those jets you suggested to me. I ask bc since I have to take the airbox out to do the carbs, should I go with pods while I'm there?

I just got the Muzzy, haven't gotten it installed. I used to have Two Brothers slip-ons, and those flowed surprisingly well.

my intake/exhaust looks like this:

intake lid modified
108 mains, 3 washers on the needles (need one more), mix screws out 2.75 turns
Two Brothers pipes (but will have the Muzzy installed within a day of getting home so I can ride because right now the bike just has headers)

Take the airbox out and cut off the battery box. It will make getting at the carbs tons easier, and you can still use the stock air filter and air box.

PS, there's a link in my signature to my blog, which is a list of every mod I've made to my bike, with links to many things as well.

TheFranchise216 · April 15th, 2012, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I just got the Muzzy, haven't gotten it installed. I used to have Two Brothers slip-ons, and those flowed surprisingly well.

my intake/exhaust looks like this:

intake lid modified
108 mains, 3 washers on the needles (need one more), mix screws out 2.75 turns
Two Brothers pipes (but will have the Muzzy installed within a day of getting home so I can ride because right now the bike just has headers)

Take the airbox out and cut off the battery box. It will make getting at the carbs tons easier, and you can still use the stock air filter and air box.

PS, there's a link in my signature to my blog, which is a list of every mod I've made to my bike, with links to many things as well.

My goal is to one day be able to read threads like that understand all of the technical jargon. Aim high!

Nice work on the intake cuts and nice looking bike!

choneofakind · April 15th, 2012, 09:17 PM

You'll get there!

Felipe the Ant · April 15th, 2012, 09:19 PM

fuel filter

TheFranchise216 · April 15th, 2012, 09:26 PM

After pondering the situation a bit more, this is what I'm thinking. Your thoughts are very welcome:

I'm going to take out the airbox & the carbs. So I'll almost start at square one again. Since there's a full Muzzy on it, I figure I have 2 options. First is to make it work with the airbox and original jet sizes. Second is to scratch the airbox, go with pods (I understand K&N is a good choice), and get the correct jets for that scenario. Obviously clean the carbs again while they're out just to be sure (?). I figure either way I'm most likely replacing the jets.

If I go with option #2 (since that's what was intended with the Muzzy installation) Which jets and what #s do I get? And how many 3mm washers would I need per needle?

This WILL get figured out! I thought this was a logical way to go about it and I won't be as confused. I'm ready to learn so we can celebrate success sooner than later. Thoughts?

choneofakind · April 15th, 2012, 09:41 PM

Get a pair of 108's a pair of 110's and a pair of 112 main jets. Get 10 washers total (up to 5 for each needle) you will also want a pair of 40 pilot jets (just in case you have to screw the mix screws out more than 3.5 turns with the 38 pilot jets.

instructions for tuning the carbs with any combo of intake/exhaust options: http://www.factorypro.com/tech_tunin...m_engines.html
^^ when following these directions, the only difference will be with the needles. Start with 1 washer, test. 2 washers, test. 3 washers, test. 4 washers, test. 5 washers, test. Go with the best feeling number of washers.

ALSO! since you said the bike was jetted for pods, it would be a great idea to open the carbs to see what's in them. You might get lucky and they might already be set to work with a K&N R-0990

drdriftking007 · April 16th, 2012, 07:52 AM

hey bud so how is the bike going? did that JB weld work?

TheFranchise216 · April 16th, 2012, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drdriftking007

hey bud so how is the bike going? did that JB weld work?

I honestly haven't done it yet but it'll be done fairly soon. Been swamped with school work and distracted trying to figure out this other issue.

blink · April 16th, 2012, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg737

Why would you post something like that?

Why would you post a reply like that?!

Sarcasm gives a sense of humor

greg737 · April 16th, 2012, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blink

Why would you post a reply like that?!

Sarcasm gives a sense of humor

You might need to sharpen up your understanding of the word sarcasm, paying special attention to its social/cultural context.

TheFranchise216 · April 17th, 2012, 05:34 PM

Well.... Before I went nuts and dove into the guts of the bike, my buddy wanted to replicate the scenario as an experienced rider so he could get a feel for the situation. So what do you think happened? Yup... nothing. He came back and said it actually rode really well.

So it appears as though the temporary conclusion is that I, as a new rider, need to work on my skills coming down from a higher gear. We're going to make the same trip down the road in a day or two with him riding behind me in case I shut off again. We'll see how it goes.

choneofakind · April 17th, 2012, 05:42 PM

yeah that seems weird. But make sure that if you do manage to replicate it, a) keep calm and b) pop the gas cap and leave it open to test if that fixes it.

blink · April 17th, 2012, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greg737

You might need to sharpen up your understanding of the word sarcasm, paying special attention to its social/cultural context.

You needa chill out!

Go smoke some crack

TheFranchise216 · April 17th, 2012, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

yeah that seems weird. But make sure that if you do manage to replicate it, a) keep calm and b) pop the gas cap and leave it open to test if that fixes it.

Definitely will! Especially the keeping calm part. Hopefully it really just is a sharpening of my riding skills.

choneofakind · April 20th, 2012, 08:06 AM

Have you been able to re-create the issue? if so, have you tested opening the gas cap to get rid of possible vacuum?

If it's excess tank vacuum, I think I found the solution. Problem is, I don't know for sure if it's excess tank vacuum that's the culprit.

@TheFranchise216 and @drdriftking007 does this sound like the same thing that's happening to your bikes? (only this one didn't die completely) http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=101597

drdriftking007 · April 20th, 2012, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Have you been able to re-create the issue? if so, have you tested opening the gas cap to get rid of possible vacuum?

If it's excess tank vacuum, I think I found the solution. Problem is, I don't know for sure if it's excess tank vacuum that's the culprit.

@TheFranchise216 and @drdriftking007 does this sound like the same thing that's happening to your bikes? (only this one didn't die completely) http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=101597

Actually I tried what you told me to do with riding with my gas tank open and everything worked fine.

TheFranchise216 · April 20th, 2012, 01:13 PM

Haven't been able to recreate yet. But I haven't really taking it out much. I've been swamped finishing up the semester. I should finally get the tank puncture sealed up this weekend and then I'll be able to take it for the ride again and hope all goes well.

April 15th, 2012, 08:36 PM	#51
Felipe the Ant ninjette.org sage Name: . Location: . Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250R SE GREEN! Posts: 562	Eh, it could go either way. It's hard to say without being there. Check your jets and let us know what you find. Look at the brand as well as the size __________________________________________________ Trust me, I'm a banana!

April 15th, 2012, 09:19 PM	#55
Felipe the Ant ninjette.org sage Name: . Location: . Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250R SE GREEN! Posts: 562	fuel filter __________________________________________________ Trust me, I'm a banana!

April 17th, 2012, 05:34 PM	#62
TheFranchise216 ninjette.org member Name: Joe Location: Central Florida Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250 Posts: 38	Update!! Well.... Before I went nuts and dove into the guts of the bike, my buddy wanted to replicate the scenario as an experienced rider so he could get a feel for the situation. So what do you think happened? Yup... nothing. He came back and said it actually rode really well. So it appears as though the temporary conclusion is that I, as a new rider, need to work on my skills coming down from a higher gear. We're going to make the same trip down the road in a day or two with him riding behind me in case I shut off again. We'll see how it goes.

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April 15th, 2012, 08:08 PM	#42
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	I use the oem equivalent 108's and have no problems. You can also use the Genuine Keihin jets on the left of the page as well. Your choice. The needles are in your carbs. They slide up and down with the slide as more air flows through your carbs. This is because they're Constant Velocity carbs, and a larger amount of air needs a larger hole to flow at the same speed. #headspinningfactualoverload sorry. Don't worry about the needles. You'll find those once you open up the carbs. They're in the top

April 15th, 2012, 08:11 PM	#45
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	eh, jets are only a few dollars each. Spare jets are never a bad thing.

April 15th, 2012, 08:15 PM	#47
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	This should explain a lot: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11963 EDIT: this should help too. http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Carburetor_photos

April 15th, 2012, 09:17 PM	#54
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	You'll get there!

April 15th, 2012, 09:26 PM	#56
TheFranchise216 ninjette.org member Name: Joe Location: Central Florida Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250 Posts: 38	After pondering the situation a bit more, this is what I'm thinking. Your thoughts are very welcome: I'm going to take out the airbox & the carbs. So I'll almost start at square one again. Since there's a full Muzzy on it, I figure I have 2 options. First is to make it work with the airbox and original jet sizes. Second is to scratch the airbox, go with pods (I understand K&N is a good choice), and get the correct jets for that scenario. Obviously clean the carbs again while they're out just to be sure (?). I figure either way I'm most likely replacing the jets. If I go with option #2 (since that's what was intended with the Muzzy installation) Which jets and what #s do I get? And how many 3mm washers would I need per needle? This WILL get figured out! I thought this was a logical way to go about it and I won't be as confused. I'm ready to learn so we can celebrate success sooner than later. Thoughts?

April 15th, 2012, 09:41 PM	#57
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Get a pair of 108's a pair of 110's and a pair of 112 main jets. Get 10 washers total (up to 5 for each needle) you will also want a pair of 40 pilot jets (just in case you have to screw the mix screws out more than 3.5 turns with the 38 pilot jets. instructions for tuning the carbs with any combo of intake/exhaust options: http://www.factorypro.com/tech_tunin...m_engines.html ^^ when following these directions, the only difference will be with the needles. Start with 1 washer, test. 2 washers, test. 3 washers, test. 4 washers, test. 5 washers, test. Go with the best feeling number of washers. ALSO! since you said the bike was jetted for pods, it would be a great idea to open the carbs to see what's in them. You might get lucky and they might already be set to work with a K&N R-0990

April 16th, 2012, 07:52 AM	#58
drdriftking007 Drdriftking007 Name: Eddie Location: Houston Texas Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: 67	hey bud so how is the bike going? did that JB weld work?

April 17th, 2012, 05:42 PM	#63
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	yeah that seems weird. But make sure that if you do manage to replicate it, a) keep calm and b) pop the gas cap and leave it open to test if that fixes it.

April 20th, 2012, 08:06 AM	#66
choneofakind ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: . Location: . Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much. MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14	Have you been able to re-create the issue? if so, have you tested opening the gas cap to get rid of possible vacuum? If it's excess tank vacuum, I think I found the solution. Problem is, I don't know for sure if it's excess tank vacuum that's the culprit. @TheFranchise216 and @drdriftking007 does this sound like the same thing that's happening to your bikes? (only this one didn't die completely) http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=101597

April 20th, 2012, 01:13 PM	#68
TheFranchise216 ninjette.org member Name: Joe Location: Central Florida Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 250 Posts: 38	Haven't been able to recreate yet. But I haven't really taking it out much. I've been swamped finishing up the semester. I should finally get the tank puncture sealed up this weekend and then I'll be able to take it for the ride again and hope all goes well.