Keeping the bike cooler...

[zail]

Amazingly in the UK we're having hot weather (for us!) - about 80 - 90 F here most of this week and I was windering what are the best mods you guys in hotter climates have found of keeping your bikes cool... I commute to work about 6 miles accross the city and have noticed the bike getting hotter on the hot days (funny that eh?...) with the temp guage creeping into the top 1/4... I filter (lane split) when I can to keep moving and keep the airflowing over the engine but my skills in this area need some work.. lol

I was coming home from work the other day and it was really hot and as I left work the rain started to really hammer down and then as I was sat at a junction about a mile and a half from work I noticed what I thought was smoke coming off the engine As I couldn't smell anything I concluded it must be steam ... something which various people have since confirmed - has that ever happened to anyone?

[Snake]

Whenever I get cought in a downpour I usualy notice steam coming from the engine. Water usualy gets splashed on top of the engine and steams up. No harm though this is normal.

[ninjabrewer]

Originally Posted by zail

with the temp guage creeping into the top 1/4...

you have a temp gauge?

When I am stuck in traffic or have to ride really slow for a while, I can hear/feel the fan kick on for a little while. If your bike is getting hot and the fan isn't running, check that out to see if it is working properly.

nb

[capt_bugaloo]

Originally Posted by ninjabrewer

you have a temp gauge?

Do the European 2008+ bikes have a temp gauge, or is this a pre-2008 bike?

[randomwalk101]

so they are FI and has a temp gauge? What about gas gauge?

[wyckedflesh]

Mine runs a bit hot right now, but the temps are over 100+F (38C). I can feel the heat both on my legs as the airflow moves and build under the seat. I am thinking of adding the spare oil cooler I have to try and keep the motor a little cooler.

If your temps are only temporary, don't worry about a long term fix as it could cause the bike to not fully warm up when it cools off. In my case, the temps will be like this until early-middle of October.

[AnarchoMoltov]

Originally Posted by capt_bugaloo

Do the European 2008+ bikes have a temp gauge, or is this a pre-2008 bike?

European ninja 250 08-09 are fuel injected...They have a temp gauge instead of a gas gauge...

[zail]

Yep, we have temp gauge and no petrol gauge... thanks for advice .. need to check out the fan I guess!

[NJD022588]

I suppose some of the bikes over here could be running as hot as yours, but we just wouldn't know since there is no gauge.

[zail]

Ah yes.. good point Nick ... lol...

[ninjabrewer]

Originally Posted by AnarchoMoltov

European ninja 250 08-09 are fuel injected...They have a temp gauge instead of a gas gauge...

I see said the blind man, I see.

nb

[paterick4o8]

It may help you to switch out your coolant for the season to just distilled water, or water wetter. You can also replace some of your coolant with water wetter..mixing the two will help lower temperatures still

maybe this link will help: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=23131

[delvey91]

I used to commute 20 miles to college and going through town the temp needle used to be all over the place. Stop at some lights for about 3 mins and it would be right up near the red and the fan cut in. Move off and it would go right down to below half again. Never seemed to be a problem though

[robb08]

Originally Posted by AnarchoMoltov

European ninja 250 08-09 are fuel injected...They have a temp gauge instead of a gas gauge...

I want a temp gauge...

[Alex]

Here you go!

http://wiki.ninjette.org/DIY_Daytona_Water_Temp_Gauge

[SteveL]

Originally Posted by zail

Amazingly in the UK we're having hot weather (for us!) - about 80 - 90 F here most of this week and I was windering what are the best mods you guys in hotter climates have found of keeping your bikes cool... I commute to work about 6 miles accross the city and have noticed the bike getting hotter on the hot days (funny that eh?...) with the temp guage creeping into the top 1/4... I filter (lane split) when I can to keep moving and keep the airflowing over the engine but my skills in this area need some work.. lol

I was coming home from work the other day and it was really hot and as I left work the rain started to really hammer down and then as I was sat at a junction about a mile and a half from work I noticed what I thought was smoke coming off the engine As I couldn't smell anything I concluded it must be steam ... something which various people have since confirmed - has that ever happened to anyone?

Don’t worry the fan on mine does not start up until the needle is almost in the red.

Steve

[Nickds7]

Hmm, I wouldn't worry about it unless you hit red (then pull over IMMEDIATELY). I only notice it come on when I turn the bike off at times...not sure why.

[tjkamper]

My fan rarely comes on and when it does it is only for a few minutes. I just assumed that most 250cc bikes are air cooled, so the liquid cooled system is pretty efficient and it only takes a minute for the fan to cool the engine down to where is should be.

[Wes]

g21-30: Water does not boil at 212 degrees F when it is in a pressurized container, such as a radiator. That's why pressure cookers were all the rage before microwaves, you could make the water hotter and stuff would cook faster. Did you that KFC uses a modified high-pressure cooker full of grease to cook your chicken? MMMmmmmmM!

Anyhow, a 15PSI increase raises the boiling point of pure water to 250F. I'm pretty sure the Ninja has a 15PSI rad cap.

Lowering the operating temperature is also not wise. There is a reason they set the thermostat where they do: the hotter the engine, the better the fuel atomizes, the better the fuel burns, and many other good things. Engine temperature is set at around 190F to maximize those effects while preventing part deformation, coolant boiling (which means it no longer cools) while leaving some headroom.

The OP does not need to worry about his enjine temperature unless his gauge shows red. If it EVER shows red, he either:

a) has a problem with the cooling system such as a blocked passage or air pocket
b) has a defective radiator
c) the ambient temperature is well above 40C (104F) and he is not moving

Also, the 50-50 antifreeze mixture is far more important for anti-freezing purposes. It does little to promote cooling, pure water with a drop or few of dish soap probably does a better job. On the other hand, pure water will seriously mess up your engine if it ever freezes...

Wes

[zail]

Originally Posted by Wes

The OP does not need to worry about his enjine temperature unless his gauge shows red. If it EVER shows red, he either:

a) has a problem with the cooling system such as a blocked passage or air pocket
b) has a defective radiator
c) the ambient temperature is well above 40C (104F) and he is not moving

Wes

Cheers Wes (and everyone else!) that's what I needed to know (Luckily the chances of the ambient temps here reaching 40C are very slim...)

[Alex]

Originally Posted by g21-30

SLP offers this 160º thermostat for all LS1/LS2/LS3/LS6/LS7 2004-08 Corvettes/2005-06 GTO/2004-06 (2007 Classic) Full Size Trucks/SUV's equipped with 4.8/5.3L/ 6.0L engines along with 2006 Trailblazer SS and 2008 Pontiac G8. These low-temp thermostats dramatically reduce operating temperatures, while increasing thermal efficiency and your engine's performance in the process. Racers know that a cooler running engine is a better performing engine. This new thermostat replaces the factory unit, allowing coolant to circulate at lower engine temperatures, keeping the engine cooler. Not legal for use on pollution controlled vehicles.

This makes no sense to me. A lower temp thermostat does absolutely nothing to improve the cooling ability of the radiator. All a thermostat controls is the minimum operating temperature of the motor. It does this by limiting flow to the radiator until the temp approaches the desired operating temp, then letting the flow open once the temp has reached the appropriate level, and as long as the temp remains there it will stay open.

So here's what I don't get. Sure, if the radiator is capable enough (and I'm sure that it is), in normal conditions cruising down the highway that 160 degree thermostat will allow the engine to stay right at that temp. It will in fact be running cooler than it would have with the standard thermostat, as its minimum operating temp to open to full flow is lower.

But that does nothing to improve the "performance" of that motor. If you're just cruising along, you're making 50 hp at most, not using any real performance from the motor. If you actually start using any performance of the motor (higher speed runs, track day, drag strip, whatever), the engine temp will go much higher than that minimum, and once it does the engine temp is solely determined by this: (amount of heat produced by engine - amount of heat removed by radiator). The effectiveness of the radiator once its flow is open has zero to do with the thermostat and everything to do with the surface area and efficiency of the radiator itself.

[tjkamper]

Originally Posted by Alex

This makes no sense to me. A lower temp thermostat does absolutely nothing to improve the cooling ability of the radiator. All a thermostat controls is the minimum operating temperature of the motor. It does this by limiting flow to the radiator until the temp approaches the desired operating temp, then letting the flow open once the temp has reached the appropriate level, and as long as the temp remains there it will stay open.

So here's what I don't get. Sure, if the radiator is capable enough (and I'm sure that it is), in normal conditions cruising down the highway that 160 degree thermostat will allow the engine to stay right at that temp. It will in fact be running cooler than it would have with the standard thermostat, as its minimum operating temp to open to full flow is lower.

But that does nothing to improve the "performance" of that motor. If you're just cruising along, you're making 50 hp at most, not using any real performance from the motor. If you actually start using any performance of the motor (higher speed runs, track day, drag strip, whatever), the engine temp will go much higher than that minimum, and once it does the engine temp is solely determined by this: (amount of heat produced by engine - amount of heat removed by radiator). The effectiveness of the radiator once its flow is open has zero to do with the thermostat and everything to do with the surface area and efficiency of the radiator itself.

You have a point, but a lot of people with LS1's add a manual fan switch and swap the radiator for a better performing and lighter one too. I did with my T/A before I sold it. Before I made this mod My T/A would often get as hot as 230 and after the better radiator my temp dropped to about 200. I don't know if the thermostat did much, but it was cheep. Since the LS1 has a reverse flow system. the thermostat is triggered by the already cooled water comming from the radiator. This means that your running temp is always going to be a lot higher than your thermostat rating. Nasty stuff if you ask me, but the reverse flow also passes coolant by the heads first so it helps prevent knockinging in such a high compression engine (suposidly).

Plus remember SLP wants to sell the thing. Ofcourse they are going to exagerate its benefits.

Man I miss my T/A

[Alex]

All of that sounds fine, there may be benefits under light load to running the engine cooler than the factory says to, and a recommendation of a 160 degree tstat on the Hemi's might very well be accurate. But they aren't performance benefits, as once you start using any of that real performance of the engine the thermostat just doesn't matter.

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by g21-30

Actually, the ROT (Rule of Thumb) is that the coolant operating temp is roughly 20 degrees higher than the thermostat rating. Thus 160=180, .... 190=210.... 195=215 .....

I dont buy that....... unless it's like 100 deg out

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by zail

Amazingly in the UK we're having hot weather (for us!) - about 80 - 90 F here most of this week and I was windering what are the best mods you guys in hotter climates have found of keeping your bikes cool... I commute to work about 6 miles accross the city and have noticed the bike getting hotter on the hot days (funny that eh?...) with the temp guage creeping into the top 1/4... I filter (lane split) when I can to keep moving and keep the airflowing over the engine but my skills in this area need some work.. lol

I was coming home from work the other day and it was really hot and as I left work the rain started to really hammer down and then as I was sat at a junction about a mile and a half from work I noticed what I thought was smoke coming off the engine As I couldn't smell anything I concluded it must be steam ... something which various people have since confirmed - has that ever happened to anyone?

If your coolant level is good and your fan is functioning properly (coming on, dropping the temp then turning off) then you're fine.

[Alex]

I don't think that bolded section shows what you're trying to say. It doesn't say that the vehicle will run at 20 degrees higher than its rating. It says that the thermostat will be fully open at 20 degrees higher than its rating. The vehicle may very well stabilize at a temperature somewhere between its rating and 20 degrees north of that rating, with the thermostat partially open. Depends on outside temperature, radiator size, current engine load, and a number of other factors. Can the vehicle stabilize at exactly the temperature where the thermostat goes fully open? Sure. But it's no guarantee that it will.

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by g21-30

For you, I will provide one reference:



Thermostats will begin to open at their rated temperature and are fully open about 20°F higher,

I'll buy the fully open part(not what you mentioned 1st), but not that said vehicle will be running 20deg hotter than the thermostat. < Unless it's hot as hell out
My car & R1 runs at 160, 163 for the bike. The 250r has 160 stat in it also, but I have no clue what its running at.
For computer controled cars, you have watch out with the 160deg stat. Sometimes it's too low for the ecm to get into open loop.