Racer X turbo build

[Racer x]

The turbo is to low to drain effectively. Originally I was going to use an electric pump. To move the oil. But space is so limited. I would rather not.

So I need to remake the header.

[garth285]

Yeah oil drainage is key to keeping a turbo happy.

I got a lead today on a 1999 ninja 250 but it need a bit of work and has 125k on the odometer!!!! But I may be able to pick it up for 2-300 bucks and then sink some money into it.

I have been lookiong for a place for race fairing, looks like airtech has some.

I'm wondering if I can swap a 08+ head on a 07 down engine. I really hate rocker arms lol....

[Racer x]

No you can't swap heads.

[Racer x]

New turbo location.

[Racer x]

I got the new header half done. I still need to add the flange then mount the turbo and run all the oil lines. Then I can add the O2 sensor bungs. I can't add the sensor bungs untill I figure out the rest.

I also have most of the exhaust pipe done. But that is easy.

[mgentz]

nice.

[garth285]

Looking good! I wont be to far behind you on the turbo build if I pick up this 250 this weekend! The wife would much rather me racing a 250 trying to go 120-130mph than my turbo busa going 220-230mph :-/

[Racer x]

Wait till she finds out how much work it takes to go 120 on a ninja250. You could go 250 mph on a Bousa.

[Racer x]

Fitting the turbo is getting close. The turbo could hit the fender if I bottomed out the suspension. There are no bumps. But I don't want to take a chance. So I just need to shorten the runners. Just about 3/4 inch. And make the flange as tight as possible.

[mheitman]

Originally Posted by Racer x

Fitting the turbo is getting close. The turbo could hit the fender if I bottomed out the suspension. There are no bumps. But I don't want to take a chance. So I just need to shorten the runners. Just about 3/4 inch. And make the flange as tight as possible.

Could you get that fender a little closer to the tire? - to give everything more breathing room.

[Racer x]

Ya
And I can go back to a 16 inch front tire. This is with the fork slid down in the trees. I don't think the fork would even compress this much. Really if this ever happen I would be crashed. This explanes the shape of the 2008 stock exhaust system. It gets tight at the head.

[Racer x]

I got the turbo side flange made up but not welded. Now I need to attach it to the runners.

[choneofakind]

FWIW, 16" wheel won't help a thing. The OD of the tire of a 17" and a 16" (assuming you're using stock sizes for the ninjettes) is within 1/4" of each other. The ID (rim size) just throws people off because one is bigger.

looking good eric!

[Racer x]

Ya I need 17 inch wheels for tire selection. I use race take off slicks from a 125 moto GP bikes.
The header is just stumpy now and everything is clear. I still have to squeeze in the two O2 sensors.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by Racer x

Ya I need 17 inch wheels for tire selection. I use race take off slicks from a 125 moto GP bikes.
The header is just stumpy now and everything is clear. I still have to squeeze in the two O2 sensors.

thats going to be really hot for the o2 sensors. Idk if thats going to ruin them being so close

[Racer x]

I wondered about that. They are flush mount and don't stick into the pipe. Do you think I could put them on the outlet side of the turbo.?

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I wondered about that. They are flush mount and don't stick into the pipe. Do you think I could put them on the outlet side of the turbo.?

you could do that but the reason there is two to get two different streams pretty close to the head but putting them that close might fry them. I would ask matt. Maybe you can wrap them in header wrap but idk if that would help with the readings..... just keep them from baking.

Just ask Matt, I know he was really specific where he wanted us to mount them. Not to far down the stream where they wouldnt heat up correctly or fast enough. Too close would probably ruin them.

[EMSRacer07]

you got a picture where u wanted to put them after the turbo?

[Racer x]

I just have about nine inch of exhaust coming out of the turbo.

[garth285]

I would run a single o2 sensor right out of the turbo... you will not get a measurement per cylinder but most all turbo systems and exhaust systems measure o2 downstream in the exhaust.

Only problem with your turbo outlet pipe is it it a little short and you may get a not so accurate reading with low load as you can have some air flow back in and throw off your air fuel reading.

If you cannot change the length of your turbo outlet pipe I would just place it about 4-6" away from the turbo exit so its close but not to close.

O2's can handle a bit of heat but you dont want to be to close and in your case you dont want to be to far.

[Racer x]

I sent Matt an E mail.
This is the location. 3.25 inch from the head.

[Racer x]

I can do a lot with the outlet pipe. But I don't want it to stick out. If the bike falls over . I don't want it to break the turbo off or bend the turbo. The FI system uses a seperate o2 sensor for each cylinder. I really would like to keep them seperate. The nitrous bike runs 1200 deg EGT.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I sent Matt an E mail.
This is the location. 3.25 inch from the head.

he said that would be ok? or u are waiting for what he says?

And down stream would have to be the option if it would be too hot that close to the head. But you need both o2 sensors in the stream otherwise it wont run right.

[garth285]

When I spoke to ecotrons I believe he said you can wire it or set it to only use one o2 sensor. you may have to just split the one o2 sensor plug to send the same signal to both cylinders ya know.

[Racer x]

I will try the head. I can easy add to the pipe. Or run with no sensor on pre written map.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I will try the head. I can easy add to the pipe. Or run with no sensor on pre written map.

you could do that and just run the rich/race mode. It just wont have feedback from the o2 sensors but it will still self adjust to whatever fuel parameters you give it.

[Racer x]

Guys I Reallly appreciate your feedback on this. I know what to do. And what is needed. But getting it all to work and figuring it all out is challenging. Thanks.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by garth285

When I spoke to ecotrons I believe he said you can wire it or set it to only use one o2 sensor. you may have to just split the one o2 sensor plug to send the same signal to both cylinders ya know.

news to me.

[garth285]

Racer X. I would for sure figure out the o2 placement before running on boost, turbos are not kind when they dont get their fuel lol.

I need to convince you to buy a wideband at some point in time and wire that up to and get a more accurate reading! The narrow bands will do the job but not as well as a wideband.

Yes you do not need to run 2 seperate o2's since your exhaust will mix the 2 cylinders exhaust's together.... unless you have a odd issue, both cylinders should be putting out the same air/fuel its just like tuning a normal 4 cylinder bike where they only run 1 o2 sensor in the exhaust and all 4 cylinders are tuned as one pretty much.

[Racer x]

I will start fat that is always the best thing. E85 is also an option.

[Racer x]

I will also be tuning at Bikes built better in Horsham PA. They are very good with turbo bikes. They built the fastest 500 cc turbobike. It went 181 mph last week. I will definitely rely on then for tuning.

[garth285]

Good deal!

I dont know if the injectors will handle E85 but we will just have to find out! Gotta watch that duty cycle ya know. E85 will be a hot ticket to making the motors keep happy. I dont even run an intercooler on my 290hp busa and the temps all stay down with the E85 but I have a beef cake fuel system.

With low boost I think you can forget about an intercooler especially if your going to spray on top of it to keep temps down.

Good to hear they will be helping!!!

Project is looking great so far man, I'm jealoud your way ahead of me, I may have to wait til next year but I really want to get into some 250 fun lol.....

[Racer x]

Yes its all fun. I am just trying to get it running at this point. I will refine it, blow it up and make it better. That is how it works. Then if I acctually go fast. I have to start over and go faster.

;-

[lgk]

I didnt do it but there was an option for connecting a single wideband and having it self tune.

Maybe there is a similar option for narrow band

[Racer x]

Originally Posted by lgk

I didnt do it but there was an option for connecting a single wideband and having it self tune.

Maybe there is a similar option for narrow band

I just got an e mail from Matt about just that. Since I am still in the build phase. I will put sensor bungs everywhere.

[Somchai]

Eric, this all looks very good and I really hope you'll have the success you're looking for.
Maybe you think about using the o2 sensors only for setup the engine and while racing install the bungs instead.
And just only for information, since you also always think about camshafts. I found in the Kawasaki Performance Parts Catalog from 2008 that they'd use a camshaft for the intake with 310 degree duration for the ZX-10R (04-07, what does not mean that this high value must work with a twin also, but...).

[Racer x]

Thank you Roland .
For mile racing I can use a pre written map. But for Bonneville I really need the bike to adapt to unknown conditions at 5000 feet.
I will try both. The fun is in the testing.
The engine that is in my nitrous bike will go into this bike with just a change in compression.
Then I will have a real engine built for Bonneville. The builder will decide all the cam profiles and have then made. Land Speed racing is very specific. I just don't know enough about the salt to build an engine for it.

[JohnnyBravo]

Daaaaang you are handling the buisness!!! Me= drooling waiting to see numbers

[Racer x]

Me to. I am looking for three digit numbers.

This is the final header. Three tryes and I still have to add the sensor bungs. But the turbo is mounted.

[garth285]

Nice, hey what metal are you using for the headers? Stock manifolds cut or is that all new steel?