Loud pipes

[Sailariel]

Loud pipes are getting to the point where they are almost an epidemic. I, for one am not particularly happy when some idiot roars by my house at midnight enjoying his "Melodious tones" when I am trying to get some sleep. I am active in City Government and we will be passing an ordinance in the very near future that will require a motorcycle to have an EPA stamp on their exhaust. I WILL support that legislation. I am sorry that the aftermarket folks will take a hit, but we do have a right to peace and quiet regardless what the bufoons who advocate noise think. Stock motorcycles, including H-D are relatively quiet. It is the rider who chooses to run straight pipes, aftermarket racing pipes,etc. Well, the noise orgy is going to be over very soon. If you plan to make noise, plan to pay big fines. We are fed up and are doing something about it.

[Alex]

Instead of going after an EPA stamp (which can be forged, and doesn't really address the noise issue), why not focus on something like the new SAE test for motorcycle noise? Then it's not a matter of targeting aftermarket or original pipes, it's aimed directly at combatting excessive noise. More info here and here.

I'm not a huge fan of loud pipes either, but keep in mind that many (but certainly not all) of the folks who are so anti-loud-pipes would also be classified as anti-motorcycle and are using this issue as yet another to marginalize our rights to own and ride these machines.

[Greg_E]

Why pass another law that will not be enforced? I bet your state already has a law that requires certain things to be in place, including sound levels. I think you should probably try for greater enforcement of the current laws.

It's funny... Everyone selling any of the Buells thinks I'm crazy when I offer them less money if they don't possess the stock muffler. No one seems to understand that I don't want something so loud that you can here me coming from 10 blocks away.

Check out what I have to deal with, still wondering why there are so many bikes with pipes that are stupid loud:
http://abateny.org/mclaws.html

Muffler - Required; no straight pipes; no removal of baffles; no modification of exhaust system that increases noise beyond exhaust system originally installed. Ref: NYS Vehicle & Traffic Law, Article 9, Section 381

Maximum Sound Level - Maximum Allowable A-Weighted Sound Levels at Speed: 35 mph or less, 82 dB(A); over 35 mph, 86 dB(A), measured at, or adjusted to, a distance of fifty feet from the center of the lane in which the motorcycle is traveling. Ref: NYS Vehicle & Traffic Law, Article 10, Section 386.

I say spend the time on better enforcement unless the state has no laws similar to New York, and I bet they do have laws similar. I won't condemn and entire industry, all the loud pipes do say for off road use only. Legislation that requires an EPA stamp prevents companies like Area P from making the long quiet version of their exhaust.

Otherwise I agree that loud pipes suck!

[noche_caliente]

Greg - believe it or not, according to the AMA, there are no sound laws in ME...
Muffler No acoustical criteria.
Maximum Sound Level No acoustical criteria.

[Greg_E]

Well then I guess they need to pass a law that will never be enforced. Really need to work on noise levels and not EPA certification though.

There is a jerk with a harley and straight pipes across the street, he has no problem coming in at midnight and revving the motor five or six times to see how loud it is. When my Buell comes in I may do they same at 8 in the morning when they finally get to sleep and see how they like it. It also has a 120+db "muffler" that I'm going to sell, but might as well get some use out of it first!

[Sailariel]

Maine has no standards. We have people running straight pipes all the time, and there is no standard for enforcement. As a person in the position to legislate--and as a motorcyclist (which gives me credibility with other legislators), there will be a law in Maine which will address the noise issue. Bikers have been put on notice for quite some time and that was tacitly ignored. I, for one, am tired of the noise and will see to it that a strict law concerning how many decibels a motorcycle is allowed to put out is passed. There are freedoms and there is abuse. The bikers in Maine will either comply or pay heavy fines. Enough is enough. Alex, I am not out to marginalize the rights of motorcyclists. I am out to dispel the myth that a motorcycle has to be loud in order to perform properly. If that is indeed the case, maybe one should confine their activity to a track. Car owners are restricted to how much noise their vehicles put out. I see no reason that the same should not apply to motorcyclists. You can`t have it two ways. You can clean up your image (as per AMA) or be a bunch of obnoxious pariahs as the situation is today. Your choice. I will take every action necessary legislatively to turn this situation aroound---sorry about the aftertmarket guys--clean your act up.

[OldGuy]

Alex (op) I would go have to got with Alex (father of ninjette) that the better approach would be to go with a sound level and not with some government "standard" for a couple of reasons. If you go with the some standard that results in a "stamp" it will cost the mfg $$ to get that stamp and it will be passed on to the user. If it is anything like UL stamps the cost is not cheap. If you go with xx dB on a wighted C scale at yy feet perpendicular to the bike the only added expenses is for the mfg to design and supply. For enforcement it's real easy, break out the sound meter pass / no pass.

[minuslars]

I predict the weather by counting the number of Harleys that go by in the morning....

If I sleep in, it's going to be cold or rainy.

If I get woken up by old guys on Harleys, IT'S RIDING TIME

[Verus Cidere]

There's another issue here that I'm fairly surprised hasn't been mentioned yet. Loud pipes do, in fact, save lives. I've seen it happen, I've watched it happen, I've been the person in the car that almost changed lanes into a biker that was in my blind spot before I heard his pipes. This is a real issue and can't be ignored. I do agree, however, that there are a lot of bikers and pipes that take the noise to an excess. There's a difference between being heard better by the cars around you in traffic and being heard by the people 5 blocks away. I do think that there is justification in doing something to lessen the amount of noise, but don't let it get so far that it lessens the ability to make motorcycles a little safer. Just my

[HKr1]

Alex, you live on a main drag or something? Loud pipes & bumping stereos....

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by minuslars

I predict the weather by counting the number of Harleys that go by in the morning....

If I sleep in, it's going to be cold or rainy.

If I get woken up by old guys on Harleys, IT'S RIDING TIME

sounds likke my street

[Greg_E]

There are laws about stereos here too, almost never enforced.

[sombo]

I can understand being upset at the excessive abuse of ultra loud pipes. However, might I suggest that you try to find a balance. What I mean is that some states have it stated that you can't modify the exhaust so that it's louder then stock. Well, then 99% of the time that would mean you can't modify at all. Virtually each and every LEGAL aftermarket exhaust is somewhat louder then stock. You can't escape that, the bigger and less restrictive the exhaust is the louder it's going to be.

Therefore I suggest finding a middle ground. Keep the level high enough for moderate exhaust mods like the ones from area p and yoshi and such. But low enough that it's tolerable to the majority. Don't become like the non-bikers and let your anger and frustration at the excessively loud bikes affect your decision on this matter. Don't hurt ALL bikers by trying to go after the abusers.

[ScraitT]

It's more then just bikes here. Every other civic has a can on it that you can here from miles away. Majority of the mustangs and camaros around have straight pipes on them.
Then there's of course the harleys and 95% of the sport bikes around here.

Sportbikes dont seem to bother me much because the exhaust note, though loud, is generally smooth so it isnt as piercing and annoying. Civics are by far the worse for loud and annoying.

It doesnt bother me a ton because I live far enough off the road that I can't hear it, and luckily the only other bike in my neighborhood is a zx10r with stock exhaust.

The outlaws (a harley gang) house is behind one of the buildings I work at. I have to say it IS pretty impressive watching 200+ harleys pulling out and taking off down the street when 9% of them run straight pipes. The sound is just so loud its impressive. However if I was a neighbor I would be pissed.

[DarkNinja52]

still riding stock pipes but im a firm believer of the fact that

loud pipes save lives

[AnarchoMoltov]

Originally Posted by Sailariel

Maine has no standards. We have people running straight pipes all the time, and there is no standard for enforcement. As a person in the position to legislate--and as a motorcyclist (which gives me credibility with other legislators), there will be a law in Maine which will address the noise issue. Bikers have been put on notice for quite some time and that was tacitly ignored. I, for one, am tired of the noise and will see to it that a strict law concerning how many decibels a motorcycle is allowed to put out is passed. There are freedoms and there is abuse. The bikers in Maine will either comply or pay heavy fines. Enough is enough. Alex, I am not out to marginalize the rights of motorcyclists. I am out to dispel the myth that a motorcycle has to be loud in order to perform properly. If that is indeed the case, maybe one should confine their activity to a track. Car owners are restricted to how much noise their vehicles put out. I see no reason that the same should not apply to motorcyclists. You can`t have it two ways. You can clean up your image (as per AMA) or be a bunch of obnoxious pariahs as the situation is today. Your choice. I will take every action necessary legislatively to turn this situation aroound---sorry about the aftertmarket guys--clean your act up.

Sounds like you need a hobby..

[karlosdajackal]

Why target the bikes? Why not cars/trucks and everything else. So you get awoken by a bike going by at midnight, but not by a riced up civic with a 1.1L inline 4 engine and an exhaust the size of an artillery gun.

I get woken up by riced up cars all the time, yes its illegal here, and yes like every other country its not enforced. If the cops stop you for some other reason and you act like an then they might give you a "talking too" about your pipe, but you've never going to loose your ride/license over it. All these pipes are sold for track use only, and of course 99% of the cars they end up on never see a track.

What seems more effective is the insurance companies. You have to tell them of any mods to the vehicle, if you change the pipe or anything they charge you more, if you change it and don't tell them, they won't pay out for anything as they will say you lied on your policy. They won't cover you on a race track anyway so if you put a "track only" exhaust on, well, your between a rock and a hard place. Oh and if you ride with no insurance you will loose your license.

Insurance company are happy as they get more money, less modified cars/bikes. Cops are happy as they don't have to invest in sound testing equipment and all that. Imagine trying to prove that NYS law, you need equipment, a test track, someway of getting the car to drive on that measured piece of road with no other vechicles or noise around. After all that you could argue the ambient noise was higher due to other traffic, or something else closer than 50feet from the microphone. Seems unenforceable.

[250rinblack]

I took my Yoshi slip-on off today. It was on the bike when I bought it six months ago, and the original muffler came with the bike. I'd been contemplating retro-fitting the the stock muffler because:
1. I'm a shift worker and my travel times vary from 0330 in the morning to after midnight and I don't think my neighbours are too impressed with the noise (although none of them have said anything....yet). My wife said she could here me coming down the street, and that was on a very minimal throttle opening.
2. The note from the Yoshi had a very harsh "blat" in the mid-range around the 4000-7000rpm range; it wasn't a good sound. I just didn't like the noise it made. Additionally it was quite deafening on long rides.
3. I'm not so sure that there is/was a noticeable performance gain, and if there was I'm not sure I'm good enough to have noticed it.
4. Aesethically I think the stock muffler looks just as good, so there's no loss there.

I do believe though that loud pipes (within reason) do make car drivers look. Many a time in the last six months when I've been riding and I wasn't sure if the car in front knew I was near them I'd just close the throttle and the popping and banging on the over-run would make the driver's head turn. Guess time will tell if I've made the correct decision.

[Jerry]

*Opinion Warning Label*

Unenforced laws make a fool of the lawmaker.

Unenforceable laws make a mockery of the law.

Loud pipes do NOT save lives: they make people dislike bikes. Good riders, Good Gear, Loud Horns, save lives.

"Restricted???....My god, do you really need more from a gsxr-600?...a gsxr-1000? Really? a bike that will do 150-200+ mph? You need more speed? Or do you need more people looking at you?

Motorcycles could be a way to end many traffic, and pollution problems, but the reality is, they aren't. They are loud, obnoxious, dangerous, "look at me" toys.

That's the way most people see us.

Truth.

[Nny]

Never had loud pipes on any of my bikes and I really dont think I ever will.
Never been a fan.

I understand the logic behind the loud pipes saves lives theory and respect it. I would never want to put a false sence of security in something that involes my life. There has been plenty of times where I was in my car with music cranked up (sometimes not) and wouldnt be able to hear a bike with loud pipes until I was behind them. -Makes sence, I mean the pipes are projecting the noise behind us.

On another note: I leave for work at 5:30AM and neighbors are within spittin distance. I warm up the bikes in the garage, shut em off and pull them to the end of the drive way before I start em back up to take off. If I had loud pipes I dont think I would be able to ride to work in the morning.

Sure loud pipes can grab attention. I think it can also grab the wrong attention.

I get asked all the time by some Harley guys when I will be changing the pipes on my streetbob - they look at me like I am insane when I tell them never.

You may get away with loud.
You may get away with fast (depending how fast).
Loud and fast is just asking for it. -JMHO

[Kawasabi]

to OP:

Dude lighten up, different strokes for different folks. If people like to roll down the street blinging 26" rims then its their choice, however retarded they might look to you. To really get what you want to work, changing the law is NOT gonna do it, as evident that no one has ever gotten pulled over strictly for a loud pipe. Try shutting down all them aftermarket manufacturers instead...... and good luck with that.

[ScraitT]

In certain circumstances, loud pipes can make a car look...however there's a few arguments against it.

-A lot of the cars on the road that dont see you are cars that wont hear you, even with a loud pipe...
Old people hard of hearing (and seeing)
People blasting music driving like a jackass
People with the phone glued to their ear
People with loud exhausts themselves (civics, etc)

-For every person that you DO get to look (IF they were even a threat to you...they usually are just driving straight in their lane)...how many people do you PISS off?
I have read stories of car tailgating bikes to no end because they had a bad day and a loud pipe pissed em off. I have even read about extremes to the point that they have HIT the bike in their car. Granted there was an underlying problem there and anything would have set them off, but the pipe didn't help.

-For that pipe, how many of your neighbors hate you now?
It only takes a bad day and one pissed off neighbor to vandalize something of your because your pipe pissed them off.


And as Nny said...WHY would you want to draw attention to yourself when you speed occasionally (and pretty much everyone does).

This of course applies to both bikes AND cars and trucks. I never understood why all the stupid little street racers put exhaust that could be heard from miles away on their car. Then when two of them line up to race, you can literally hear it 2-3 miles away at night, and its OBVIOUS it's two cars racing. Hmm...cops?

[ScraitT]

Originally Posted by Kawasabi

to OP:

Dude lighten up, different strokes for different folks. If people like to roll down the street blinging 26" rims then its their choice, however retarded they might look to you. To really get what you want to work, changing the law is NOT gonna do it, as evident that no one has ever gotten pulled over strictly for a loud pipe. Try shutting down all them aftermarket manufacturers instead...... and good luck with that.

Theres a big difference between rims and pipes. Yes I think those huge rims are an incredible waste of money, but as you said, if they like it, more power to them.
Pipes on the other hand affect OTHER people and theres no way to NOT make it affect other people.

I personally have a loud stereo in my car that can be heard quite a bit away when I turn it up. However, I am considerate of others and I pretty much only turn it up on the highway. In town it's about half volume. At redlights it almost off, and through neighborhoods it is off. IF you could do that with a pipe, great, but you cant.

However I also agree that unfortunately a law will not be enforced. People ARE pulled over for loud pipes, I know someone that was, JUST for that...but its very very very rare. He threw stock on, showed up with it, paid the fine, and put the aftermarket back on. That was 3 years ago or so...no problems since. Rare.

[tapdiggy]

hey alex (OP) i am from maine and i don't think loud pipes are as big a problem as you say. also, the police don't need another excuse to randomly pull over motorcycles, especially sportbikes. i am a bit tired of civil servants trying to feel important by harassing riders. a sound level law or stamp law would create exactly that situation: police pushing the limits of probable cause; "I pulled you over because you sound too loud. Let me see your muffler."

[minuslars]

Can you ban lawnmowers while you're at it? All these dicks around me just run those things around in circles in their lawn. Totally ruins the suburban paradise experience.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Sailariel]

Originally Posted by HKr1

Alex, you live on a main drag or something? Loud pipes & bumping stereos....

Actually, I live in a residential area, in town, with a posted speed limit of 25 (which is ignored)

[Rayme]

Maybe we should ask the other question... who likes being awaken by loud pipes on whatever vehicles? Do you go like damn that's sweet and go back to sleep? mmhh..

The pretty much comes down to selfishness and lack of respect, a bike with loud pipes can be ridden quite "properly" in the small streets at 2 am if the riders has respect for people sleeping. Some people have babies and they already lack sleeps as it is..

Nobody cares about bike loudness on the highway..Just grow some brain and drive/ride with respect in the early hours of the night in residential areas...and nobody would be complaining, you guys are just creating your OWN problem.

[cifex]

I agree a sound law makes sense if it's enforced, but the sticker would not work because you sure as hell aren't going to get anything like that passed for the whole country and your not going to stop letting out of state drivers into Maine.

Originally Posted by Verus Cidere

There's another issue here that I'm fairly surprised hasn't been mentioned yet. Loud pipes do, in fact, save lives. I've seen it happen, I've watched it happen,

There is absolutely no data supporting that.

Originally Posted by Jerry

Motorcycles could be a way to end many traffic, and pollution problems,

Motorcycles pollute quite a bit more than cars / SUVS.

[Greg_E]

Actually, yes I have been offended many times on the highway by passing stupid loud bikes. When I can hear them for more than a mile with the wind howling in my ears (in the car, windows down, radio on to combat the wind noise) then it is just plain too damn loud. I'm all for reasonable limits on exhaust loudness, but what we have here in NY is just plain not enforced unless they set up a sting.

The car stereos is a different matter, basically if you can hear it from XXX away, it is in violation. If the cop can hear it in his car with the windows up, it is in violation. Once in a while they do enforce that one since it is somewhat subject to the officer (and more power to them!).

[cifex]

They may not enforce it by you but on Long Island it is enforced and very effectively (unless blasting music has just gone out of style). I hear about people being pulled over all the time for those types of violations. Tints / Low riders / Sound pullution. And even when they aren't pulled over for those specific items, those things all contribute to how you are perceived by the police officer. If he spots a 4 banger with 5 inch exhaust port, blackout tints and green underglow doing 76 in a 55 and a minivan doing 80 at the same time....who would YOU go after?

[danknation]

Originally Posted by Sailariel

Maine has no standards. We have people running straight pipes all the time, and there is no standard for enforcement. As a person in the position to legislate--and as a motorcyclist (which gives me credibility with other legislators), there will be a law in Maine which will address the noise issue. Bikers have been put on notice for quite some time and that was tacitly ignored. I, for one, am tired of the noise and will see to it that a strict law concerning how many decibels a motorcycle is allowed to put out is passed. There are freedoms and there is abuse. The bikers in Maine will either comply or pay heavy fines. Enough is enough. Alex, I am not out to marginalize the rights of motorcyclists. I am out to dispel the myth that a motorcycle has to be loud in order to perform properly. If that is indeed the case, maybe one should confine their activity to a track. Car owners are restricted to how much noise their vehicles put out. I see no reason that the same should not apply to motorcyclists. You can`t have it two ways. You can clean up your image (as per AMA) or be a bunch of obnoxious pariahs as the situation is today. Your choice. I will take every action necessary legislatively to turn this situation aroound---sorry about the aftertmarket guys--clean your act up.

I have never heard anyone have such a problem with loud vehicles before. Good luck getting this one to pass....

I love how you make it sound like a personal battle and accomplishment "I will see to it that yadda yadda yadda". Geez man, calm down. You seem like an early to bed, early to rise guy. Maybe the guy next door doesn't like listening to your garage door go up and your bike start at 05:00am? It is all relative to each person and I think you are going just a bit overboard.

Long story short, I don't honestly think you'll get this to pass and are just raising your own blood pressure by letting it bother you so much.

I know if it was me that lived there, I'd look at that proposition and say "What pansy ass put this on here? Pft, they can deal with. I have to deal with their *insert annoying something here* so they can deal with my pipes."

[Kawasabi]

Exactly my friend, if your next door neighbor starts cooking some nasty smelling food like curry and what not, you gonna make a law banning cooking these foods? Come on dude, take a chill pill and go to a big city from time to time. Peace!

[rockNroll]

The problem here isn't loud pipes, it's lack of common courtesy by some who have them.

Loud pipes don't really save lives.

I don't think I've ever seen an after market exhaust that was legal for on-road use in the USA. If you have aftermarket exhaust on your bike, you're probably violating federal regulations for noise and emissions.

I like them best when the "hot now" sign is lit... they melt in your mouth! Six glazed and six chocolate iced!

[Momaru]

I grew up in a neighborhood in coastal VA like the one you describe you're in Alex (OP). Every day (morning, noon and all hours night) we had people plowing thru at 50mph+ (25 limit) with pipes so big I could stick my boot in it and bass loud enough to rattle my windows. Cars of all kinds, trucks, the occasional bike (minus the stereo, of course).

In college I got to stay up to unholy hours thanks to partying neighbors. I got complaints from the guy downstairs that I was waking him up at all hours with a squeaky desk chair (that none of my roomates could hear outside my room) and my kitten running the halls.

I agree there's a lot of people out there that simply either don't understand that huge sound tends to piss others off, or simply don't care. I applaud your effort to make the world a friendlier, quieter place, but have to say there's gotta be some level of compromise. Making life suck for everyone that wants a distinctive sounding vehicle is simply harsh, not to mention whether or not it gets realistically enforced.

I don't know whether loud pipes save lives or not; I see both sides and IMHO, it probably comes out a wash. Some people see you who otherwise wouldn't have (for better or worse), but there's some that'll never hear you.

All I know is I do my best to respect other people's level of peace & quiet, within reason. Hope others do to, but also hope they respect my freedoms and don't litigate the nation to stagnation.

[noche_caliente]

Originally Posted by Kawasabi

to OP:

Dude lighten up, different strokes for different folks. If people like to roll down the street blinging 26" rims then its their choice, however ridiculous they might look to you. To really get what you want to work, changing the law is NOT gonna do it, as evident that no one has ever gotten pulled over strictly for a loud pipe. Try shutting down all them aftermarket manufacturers instead...... and good luck with that.

FIXED

Originally Posted by Momaru

In college I got to stay up to unholy hours thanks to partying neighbors. I got complaints from the guy downstairs that I was waking him up at all hours with a squeaky desk chair (that none of my roomates could hear outside my room) and my kitten running the halls.

I still think this is hilarious!

[Sailariel]

Originally Posted by OldGuy

Alex (op) I would go have to got with Alex (father of ninjette) that the better approach would be to go with a sound level and not with some government "standard" for a couple of reasons. If you go with the some standard that results in a "stamp" it will cost the mfg $$ to get that stamp and it will be passed on to the user. If it is anything like UL stamps the cost is not cheap. If you go with xx dB on a wighted C scale at yy feet perpendicular to the bike the only added expenses is for the mfg to design and supply. For enforcement it's real easy, break out the sound meter pass / no pass.

Don, That seems to be the reasonable way to go. The EPA can be an intractable beurocracy. A simple decibal check would work.

[Alex]

Yup, that's exactly what the SAE standard test is for, to make it simple, cheap, and repeatable.

[tapdiggy]

Originally Posted by Sailariel

...I am active in City Government and we will be passing an ordinance in the very near future...

Are you saying you want an ordinance applied only to vehicles in Belfast? You must realize that a majority of such vehicles are simply passing through town to get to Route 1, that being the most traveled non-Interstate in Maine. Such an ordinance is impractical to enforce, and a waste of tax-funded time.

[Jerry]

Originally Posted by cifex

Motorcycles pollute quite a bit more than cars / SUVS.

Older bikes, yup. Straight pipes, yup. Bikes w/ catalytic converters? I'm not sure.

There's a column by Dexter Ford in Motorcyclist magazine this month, where he tries to justify the higher levels of pollution on motorcycles by the tired old argument that there just aren't that many motorcycles to really matter.
...and this was in the issue that had a "GOING GREEN" section about electric, and other alternative bikes.

I said motorcyles "could be" a way to minimize pollution, but they aren't. I bought a new 07 in early 2008 cause it was about a thousand bucks (2800 OTD TTL included) cheaper. If the difference had 2 or 3 hundred, I would have paid for the cat. converter on a new-gen.

The whole idea of squeezing another 10% out of bike that are already of the equivalent of putting a NASCAR on the street just seems like excess to me.

Loud pipe are for posers, and people who want to annoy their neighbors.

[tapdiggy]

Can we just chock it up to opinion and stop arguing? If anyone wants to have a loud exhaust, they have my permission.
If you want to start threads expressing your distaste for high dB, please use a more expressive title than "Loud Pipes" so I can avoid what amounts to complaints of self-important individuals with chips on their shoulders.