Do you pack heat on your 250 beast?

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by greg737

Kinda like "that guy" in your MSF class who (in spite of all the information being provided) was so obviously headed for a massive crash.

In my case it was more of "that girl"

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Y'know, I think that the fist was a pretty poor idea. Look at all the physical abuse it's resulted in over the years.

LMFAO

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Kurgan

That's why I will NEVER live in a state that doesn't have "Castle Doctrine" laws where it's LEGAL to use force to defend yourself, your family, and your property.

It's a really good idea to educate yourself on exactly what the Castle Doctrine law actually says in your state and figure out what it means BEFORE you're confronted with a real situation. I see this as part of my duty as a responsible gun owner and citizen.

Your profile says you live in Texas...

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodo...l/SB00378F.htm

It has language that is similar to the Castle statue where I live, Connecticut. The key words are "reasonably believes," as in

"a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force."

That's a quote from your state's Castle law, and it's followed by a raft of qualifications about what makes for a presumption of reasonableness... some of which could be open to interpretation depending on circumstance.

Scenario: It's a hot summer night and your kids forgot to close and lock the door when they came in. You're home and surprise a guy in your living room making off with your laptop and cookie jar. Castle (LEGAL defense of your property, as you put it) allows you to shoot him, right? Wrong, according to the wording of the law.

According to Texas law, entry to your home has to be BOTH unlawful and "with force," whatever that means. Door open? No force. And you've been burgled, not robbed. Burglary isn't on the very specific list of crimes that are covered by Castle in Texas.

In my state, it says that "deadly physical force may not be used unless the actor reasonably believes that such other person is (1) using or about to use deadly physical force, or (2) inflicting or about to inflict great bodily harm." Castle says I don't have to retreat, but I may not shoot an intruder unless they're actually threatening me.... and that's open to interpretation.

This whole area is where self defense gets very sticky, because "reasonableness" will lie in the hands of the court. The obvious argument is that since this guy was in your house unlawfully he posed a threat, but the judge and jury might not see it that way.

So it's LEGAL, sure... IF you pass all the legal requirements. Just because somebody walks into your home uninvited doesn't mean you get to shoot him.

[Apocolypze01]

But why does someone need a gun? Is a gun really necessary against a "brick wielding teen"? Thats fine that my opinions are thought of as stupid, because i didnt really expect anything else. I mean, NO OFFENSE, but you guys love your guns dont you? If you insulted my kangaroos, boy oh boy, would i be mad :P

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by Apocolypze01

But why does someone need a gun? Is a gun really necessary against a "brick wielding teen"? Thats fine that my opinions are thought of as stupid, because i didnt really expect anything else. I mean, NO OFFENSE, but you guys love your guns dont you? If you insulted my kangaroos, boy oh boy, would i be mad :P

I seriously dont think youre stupid. but statements like that irk me. I would say someone needs a gun in case the attacker has a gun, or even a knife. Its better to be prepared then unprepared. Thats my opinion and im stickin to it!

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Apocolypze01

But why does someone need a gun? Is a gun really necessary against a "brick wielding teen"? Thats fine that my opinions are thought of as stupid, because i didnt really expect anything else. I mean, NO OFFENSE, but you guys love your guns dont you? If you insulted my kangaroos, boy oh boy, would i be mad :P

A brick wielding teen can cause serious brain damage that can be a fate worse than death itself. If he's close enough to hurt me, and is acting in a threatening manner, he's dead.

As to kangaroos, if one attacked me, he's dead too.

[adouglas]

The purpose of self-defense is to stop an attacker. Period. Using the most decisive and effective means to accomplish that goal is the result of simple logic, not "love" of the weapon. That is simply absurd.

I'm 5'6" and weigh 160 pounds. I'm 52 years old, have bad knees and can't run very fast or very far.

A thug is likely to be larger, heavier, stronger and faster than me. He also may be armed. I want to be able to stop him. As the doomed trooper in Aliens famously said "What do you want me to use, harsh language?"

The reason I have a gun is not because I love guns, any more than I "love" the hammer in my toolbox. This is yet another misconception. The popular image of a person who chooses to arm himself is that he's a stupid, fear-mongering, paranoid, stereotypical gun nut. Hey, you're Australian… I bet you're JUST like the stereotype, aren't you?

I choose to protect myself with a gun because it is the single most effective tool for the job, especially considering that the other guy may be armed.

Do you have a lock on your door? Why? Does your town have a police force? Why? Does your country have a military? Why? The reason is that there are in fact bad people in the world and you need to be protected. Crime is real. Violence is real.

So the obvious question is, "If you've got police, why do you need to arm yourself?" Fair question.

The answer is simple, and it's a popular saying amongst gun owners here in the US: "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

Here's what can happen. This is not a fantasy. This is real. This crime took place about 20 miles from where I live, four years ago. It started when two thugs beat the napping husband with a baseball bat. It rapidly got horribly worse. Had the family been armed, chances are it would have been a simple assault instead of the tragedy it turned into.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...re-killer.html

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Apocolypze01

But why does someone need a gun? Is a gun really necessary against a "brick wielding teen"? Thats fine that my opinions are thought of as stupid, because i didnt really expect anything else. I mean, NO OFFENSE, but you guys love your guns dont you? If you insulted my kangaroos, boy oh boy, would i be mad :P

Brick + Your Head = Dead

Your kangaroos are only good for making gloves

[Bassman]

I have a Colt Walker Dragoon that i shoot mostly. Black powder tends to blow around in the wind, especally on a Ninja... hard to load in an emergency.

[Bassman]

Crap, forgot to spull chk. My bad

[Kurgan]

Originally Posted by adouglas

I love it when people cherry-pick statistics to make their case.

That very same table shows that you're far less likely to get injured (less than two-thirds as likely) if you simply run away, or try to, compared to pulling a gun. In fact, the BEST way to avoid injury, according to that survey, is to run away.

So sure, I carry, but the best option is to simply bug out. Fighting is wasteful and risky at the best of times, and most often plain stupid. It should never be the first option.

Go read Sun Tzu sometime. The Art of War is 2000 years old and full of really great advice when it comes to any kind of conflict

Running isn't always an option, especially when you're outnumbered, and I've got the Art of War on my bookshelf and have read it through many times.

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

Latin, "if you wish for peace, prepare for war".

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Kurgan

Running isn't always an option.

Never said it was, and that's why I do own a gun.

The point was that if you're going to support your position with data, don't pick and choose only that data which suits your purpose.

Intellectual honesty requires that viewpoints be adapted to fit the data, not the other way around.

[nit8690]

Lol My pistol would be kinda akward to carry lol smith and wesson 500 magnum haha it would get the job done though lol

[headshrink]

Got pulled over, while carrying, by m/c cop two weeks ago. It went very well (still got a ticket though). He complimented me on how I handled the situation (protocol, safety, disclosures). Then he told me I may have to be extra careful if ever pulled over by a/[some] younger cops. I understood what he was saying, but I thought it was funny to be coming from an officer. I don't get pulled over often, but sure do appreciate the professionalism when I do.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by headshrink

It went very well (still got a ticket though).

I think we may have different measures of success when pulled over.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by Alex

I think we may have different measures of success when pulled over.

Perhaps.... but the way I look at it, Cop caught me with a gun, and let me leave with gun. And all that without having a gun pointed at me, spread eagle, back-up, made to wear pretty "bracelets", meet his dog, etc. And THAT makes me very happy.

The ticket is a major bummer though. It was a failure to obey sign, so it won't be expensive, but I'm pissed about the point (my first point EVER).

[Bill N]

Originally Posted by headshrink

Got pulled over, while carrying, by m/c cop two weeks ago. It went very well (still got a ticket though). He complimented me on how I handled the situation (protocol, safety, disclosures). Then he told me I may have to be extra careful if ever pulled over by a/[some] younger cops. I understood what he was saying, but I thought it was funny to be coming from an officer. I don't get pulled over often, but sure do appreciate the professionalism when I do.

That was one good cop. I got pulled over by a youngster cop. As I dismounted he asked if I was armed, I said yes and he said he'd have to disarm me. My friends on the sidelines got a good laugh as the guy reached into my front pocket to remove the gun. He goes into his cruiser to run the serial #. Minutes later 3 other cop cars arrive and the LEO's basically suround me telling me not to move. The original baby cop called for backup as the serial # came up stolen. In fact the serial # came up for a stolen 12 ga shotgun and a .357 magnum pistol. Mine was a tiny .32 cal Keltec. Anyway took the youngster 45 minutes to work it out with his supervisor that he could let me go with a warning ticket for my minor traffic infraction. One of the other cops appologised and said the officer was a newbie possibly on his first solo beat. Cheers, Bill

[Liist]

I know a guy in Georgia where it's legal to open carry who carried a rifle on his back while going for a walk around his neighborhood, and he had quite an intensive encounter with multiple amounts of cops. Granted he kind of had this coming, but it goes to show how cops can be very incompetent at times.

I think I would carry my AK or my shotgun on my back if I lived in an open carry state, but not to go to school, of course.

[Jiggles]

Open carry doesn't apply to long guns, as they cannot be concealed.

[Liist]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Open carry doesn't apply to long guns, as they cannot be concealed.

Depends on the individual state, but open carry of long guns is legal.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Liist

Depends on the individual state, but open carry of long guns is legal.

I could be mistaken but I believe the term open carry is only applied to handguns.

[Liist]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I could be mistaken but I believe the term open carry is only applied to handguns.

Sounds like it can easily then be abused by carrying a Draco or an AR pistol.

[ungluck]

open carry applies to handguns and submachine guns..which you as a civilian shouldnt own.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by ungluck

open carry applies to handguns and submachine guns..which you as a civilian shouldnt own.

Why?

[headshrink]

I love that FPSRussia guy.

[Liist]

Originally Posted by headshrink

I love that FPSRussia guy.

Yeah, I remember back when he did the CoD video commentaries. He was the only one worth listening to because of the fake accent and what he says.

And now he's doing the gun videos that I wish were always available. Quite frankly, every other gun video gets boring.

It's kind of like watching the Swedish ghost rider's videos compared to your typical motorcycle review.

[wayanlam]

its such an "American" thing, to need to carry a gun, or pack heat as its called, lol

last i checked, it is still the country with the highest death toll to guns (not counting the countries that are in conflict/war).

weapons manufacturing is SUCH a huge business in the states, that is has a massive corporate interest by those manufacturers to push through laws to allow as many people to buy guns, and advertize / intimidate everyone into thinking you need one.

at this point its gone into such a tight spiral that it will be near impossible to get out of, since so many people have guns, the people without them feel intimidated enough to think that they have the need to buy them too.

war abroad, and "war" within America generates so much money for these weapons manufacturers that they have a crazy amount of influence and power over everything. its sad to say but it has corrupted so many people and laws to get it to where it is now, all for the profits...

in 2010, the government spends almost $700.000.000.000 on the military budget.
in 2009, you guys (American citizens) bought a little over 14.000.000 guns, plus billions of bullets, lol...

now i wonder who is making a killer profit from all of that money being spent on weapons.

im sure a lot of ppl will complain about this post, but its fine~ we all have our opinions, i find it quite crazy that everyone wants to be armed with a gun. but im just saying that its not the citizens fault, but the people leading them into believing that you need them. if i grew up in America, i would probably be standing on the other side of the fence,

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by wayanlam

its such an "American" thing, to need to carry a gun, or pack heat as its called, lol

last i checked, it is still the country with the highest death toll to guns (not counting the countries that are in conflict/war).

weapons manufacturing is SUCH a huge business in the states, that is has a massive corporate interest by those manufacturers to push through laws to allow as many people to buy guns, and advertize / intimidate everyone into thinking you need one.

at this point its gone into such a tight spiral that it will be near impossible to get out of, since so many people have guns, the people without them feel intimidated enough to think that they have the need to buy them too.

war abroad, and "war" within America generates so much money for these weapons manufacturers that they have a crazy amount of influence and power over everything. its sad to say but it has corrupted so many people and laws to get it to where it is now, all for the profits...

in 2010, the government spends almost $700.000.000.000 on the military budget.
in 2009, you guys (American citizens) bought a little over 14.000.000 guns, plus billions of bullets, lol...

now i wonder who is making a killer profit from all of that money being spent on weapons.

im sure a lot of ppl will complain about this post, but its fine~ we all have our opinions, i find it quite crazy that everyone wants to be armed with a gun. but im just saying that its not the citizens fault, but the people leading them into believing that you need them. if i grew up in America, i would probably be standing on the other side of the fence,

There is actually a major split in ideology here of pro gun and anti gun. If the U.S. was as you described it, it would be a much better place

People buy guns for many different reasons. Personally, I bought my first for home defence, as in solely at my house, and for target practice. My 2nd and 3rd guns were bought purely for sport (and to own a little piece of history!) I'd be buying plenty more guns if motorcycling wasn't dominating my budget

Do I need a gun to survive? Nope. Could I go through life and be perfectly fine without ever pulling a weapon on somebody? Most likely. Most gun owners (law abiding citizens we're talking here) have them for that 'what-if' moment. It gives people piece of mind knowing if they needed to, they can defend themselves.

[headshrink]

Wayan, I thought you were an ex-patriot... did I get you confused with someone else?

[wayanlam]

Originally Posted by headshrink

Wayan, I thought you were an ex-patriot... did I get you confused with someone else?

uh? must be someone else, maybe a Wane?

or maybe ur just jerking me around, hehe

don't recall having ever posted anything patriotic xD and if i did, it would have been for some other country, dont know which tho, since im all mixed, half Italian, half Chinese, born here in Bali - Indonesia, German citizen, and went to high school in Australia. so when people ask me where im from i sorta have to pause and think about it... then i end up having to explain all of that, and let the person decide where i am from

i just say im a citizen of Earth... having grown up with so many different cultures, and knowing so many people from different nationalities that have moved here, i grew up with out this "patriotic" feeling for any particular country. i find that nationality and religion is such a cumbersome burden to place in front of your actions. to me when i see people killing for their country or religion, all too often i feel sorry that they were so blinded by fear and hatred by those who actually have ulterior motives behind the so called justified wars. anyhow, getting of track there, rofl.

re: Jinggles, how would my scenario be better? and what are the two ideologies behind the pro/anti gun? i mean besides some saying, no i dont like (like me) and others saying yay, im getting a gun on the same day i can start drinking (legally) but heck, if you wanted to, you could get unregistered guns just as easy as getting drugs over there~ they go hand in hand all to often i guess

there are so many "what If" scenarios in the world. and i think a huge majority of them you can easily avoid without the need of a gun (in most countries) however, in the US of A, it seems like a lot of people go out with the expectation that everyone around you is out there to get you, and they are all carrying guns! sadly that is probably becoming an accurate assessment, since so many are in fact buying guns (be it for self defense, sport, or to be "cool", etc) and i am basing this from the stories i hear from friends that went / are going to school in Dalas, LA, etc. there is a big cool factor about having a gun for the younger generation it seems. then there is that Bigger is Better mentality too

lets assume there is like a total population of 300.000.000 ppl in USA, then lets assume about 50% of those people would be in the right age group to be buying & wielding a gun, that means that if they sold 14.000.000 guns (legally), then just about 1 in 10 people bought a new gun just in 1 year... then add the illegal guns to that equation, that would clearly make me feel like being in the minority by not owning a gun, lol... (yes i can see why people would "feel safer packing heat" but its wild that it got to this far).

anyhow, the "what if" scenario is always played over and over again, and yeah when you live in a country with a huge population that carry guns, then you always factor that in, and in those cases, it seems to be handy to be packing heat. but my point was that "what if" no one was carrying guns? well then you could defend yourself with a baseball bat if someone were to come at you with a brick. but heck, why live in places that have people coming at you with bricks in the first place

anyhow, this is and will be a subject of heated debate that will never end... at least its being debated, and hopefully it will lead to some better solutions or ideas in the future

[headshrink]

No I'm not jerking you around... an expatriot is a person temporarily or permanently residing in a country and culture other than that of the person's upbringing. It has noting to do with being patriotic. If you were born in Bali, but technically a German citizen, I'm not sure if you technically would be an expatriot... I guess it depends where you were primarily raised, and where you primarily identify with. I may have confused you, but more likely I think I merged you with someone else in my brain.

About all the numbers... we can make them say anything we want to (the one life skill I learned in statistics = seeing the bullshit in most studies sited in the paper or on the evening news.).

[wayanlam]

Originally Posted by headshrink

No I'm not jerking you around... an expatriot is a person temporarily or permanently residing in a country and culture other than that of the person's upbringing. It has noting to do with being patriotic. If you were born in Bali, but technically a German citizen, I'm not sure if you technically would be an expatriot... I guess it depends where you were primarily raised, and where you primarily identify with. I may have confused you, but more likely I think I merged you with someone else in my brain.

About all the numbers... we can make them say anything we want to (the one life skill I learned in statistics = seeing the bullshit in most studies sited in the paper or on the evening news.).

ohhh... duh, yeah, aka: ex-pat

totally pulled a blonde one there rofl! and ya, i myself don't know if i'm an expat or a local, something in-between i guess

anyhow, your totally right about numbers, its easy to pull them out of wikipedia the final truth is the one you live in, and as i said before, "if i grew up there, i would probably have a different view of things" its not as simple as saying "no one needs a gun to settle their differences here, so why do you need one there?" the circumstances are different.

however what im pointing out is that its a pity that the circumstance has come this far as to place people in the position that they feel safer to carry a gun, than not. then add all the thugs, and all the kids that wanna be cool into the equasion... yeah, its a lot of people "packing heat" way too many imo.

and the other thing i was pointing out is that its not by chance that USA has become a country with such a big PRO Gun following, im certain that its thanks to all the lobbying / advertizing / intimidating (scare tactics) that various corporations, and government parties have fed to its citizens throughout history, which has led America to its current situation where everyone is in a perpetual state of "what if that dude has a gun and i don't".

mass manipulation for the greater good of the few (the ones making the weapons).

heck, every war has been real good for the coffers of the warmonger's, profiteering in every aspect... pushing for wars abroad, and pushing for their own citizens to bear arms all goes to help increase their sales

[headshrink]

I really don't want to get into the merits of guns, but I do want to clarify one thing. America has been "pro-gun" since before we were USA. It played a major role in gaining our Independence from england. When discussing guns with Americans, you have to understand that we see through the lens of our constitution, generally speaking. Gun ownership is a foundational right here, so those that feel differently about guns, usually miss a fundamental factor that Many Americans are very passionate about. For us, you aren't just talking about our guns, but our very constitutional rights. So it really is a MUCH bigger argument. I'll stay away from statistics, based on my previous comment, but my belief is they overwhelmingly support the "pro-gun" (for a lack of better term). Nothing is likely to actually be settled here. We may just have to agree to disagree, and get back to motorcycles.

[ride2rideagain]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

You misspelled the word 'better'. It's ok though, happens to the best of us.

Riots with guns are better? Seems like you would enjoy it if innocent people losing their lives. You need a psychologist, although it may be a little too late. It's ok though, happens to the best of us. (no it doesn't, but I don't want to be a jerk, trying to be nice)

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by ride2rideagain

Riots with guns are better? Seems like you would enjoy it if innocent people losing their lives. You need a psychologist, although it may be a little too late. It's ok though, happens to the best of us. (no it doesn't, but I don't want to be a jerk, trying to be nice)

Maybe not in Canada! You guys are ****ING INSANE!!!

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/06...ncouvers-loss/

[ride2rideagain]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Maybe not in Canada! You guys are ****ING INSANE!!!

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/06...ncouvers-loss/

"Maybe" and "not in Canada".....Riots with guns are NEVER better ANYWHERE. How's that psychologist search coming along? Did you forget because you were busy trying to convince MSF to teach new riders to carry guns along with their helmet for safety?

LOL, comparing guns indirectly to seat belts and helmets is still just as funny, LOL, I love it.

[Liist]

In some places, your ability to use your gun and having your gun and ammunition greatly increases your chance of survival.

On a motorcycle safari, I best be packing some heat to ward off militias and the sort.

AK-47s in Africa are pretty damn cheap, so there's no excuse to not be armed.

[headshrink]

The tone here is beginning to take a turn. We're committed to keeping Ninjette.org friendly, so lets dial it back a bit. I would hate to see this thread get locked, like some of the past CCW threads, or more "founding members" leave. Let's show the folks at KF how to disagree, while respecting each other. Thanks all!

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by ride2rideagain

"Maybe" and "not in Canada".....Riots with guns are NEVER better ANYWHERE. How's that psychologist search coming along? Did you forget because you were busy trying to convince MSF to teach new riders to carry guns along with their helmet for safety?

LOL, comparing guns indirectly to seat belts and helmets is still just as funny, LOL, I love it.

When the zombie apocalypse comes and you are surrounded by hordes of zombies trying to beat them back with hockey sticks and snow balls, I will come zooming by on my Ninja Zombie Death Machine, and I will remember your words. However I will still save you, because I'm a nice guy

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by headshrink

I really don't want to get into the merits of guns, but I do want to clarify one thing. America has been "pro-gun" since before we were USA. It played a major role in gaining our Independence from england. When discussing guns with Americans, you have to understand that we see through the lens of our constitution, generally speaking. Gun ownership is a foundational right here, so those that feel differently about guns, usually miss a fundamental factor that Many Americans are very passionate about. For us, you aren't just talking about rights, but our very constitutional rights. So it really is a MUCH bigger argument. I'll stay away from statistics, based on my previous comment, but my belief is they overwhelmingly support the "pro-gun" (for a lack of better term). Nothing is likely to actually be settled here. We may just have to agree to disagree, and get back to motorcycles.

What he said!

#1 reason for bearing arms is to keep the government afraid of the people, instead of the people being afraid of the government. Seems our government is defeating this somewhat, but that's the idea.

Oh... and anyone who thinks he can come into my house uninvited and not be shot because of interpretation of the law, will be shot first and interpreted later