turbo / turbocharger / turbocharging

[greatwhiteninja]

i say just hide a 500cc motor under the fairings of the 250 and just tell everyone its a modded 250 jk

[Lowspeed Lowside]

Originally Posted by greatwhiteninja

i say just hide a 500cc motor under the fairings of the 250 and just tell everyone its a modded 250 jk

Any idea if there is enough room left for two turbos in series so we can run 70psi of boost to get ~250kw of power?

[Lowspeed Lowside]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I SEE
Fuel filters are cheap enough and will not hurt flow. But you should test flow rate with the fluid you plan to use. Water is VERY heavy .

We can always test flow rates for different pulse widths after we install the injectors using a small flask of fuel and a scale. The advantage of using ethanol/water mixtures of varying densities with extrapolation is that I can do that in my office, otherwise I see myself inventing a whole new vocabulary of curses and swear words when I flood the engine for the umpteenth time running experimental software.

[Lowspeed Lowside]

Got the injectors delivered yesterday. They are so tiny compared to our carburetors, that I almost feel cheated out of $23/piece. According to the specs they are high impedance injectors, but if necessary we should be able to shorten the response time by increasing the current with the assistance of a capacitor.

[EDIT]

Six little injectors waiting for a drive
One got 100 volts and there were left five

[/EDIT]


After long email exchanges with various Chinese throttle manufacturers and a short look at our cash reserve, I'm fairly certain that we will do something clever with the stock throttles. Such as, watching Jeopardy! while removing the carburetor-ish parts from the throttle-ish parts with a hacksaw.

Amazingly, the MR2 intercooler would fit where the stock radiator is located (after modifying the mounts - a lot). I feel like ordering a second one and using it as a radiator...

[Lowspeed Lowside]

http://www.aliexpress.com/product-gs...olesalers.html

$192.43 shipped.

[Lowspeed Lowside]

I've been thinking about controlling the current to the fuel pump by switching a MOSFET on and off quickly.

What happens if we (mildly) pressurize the fuel supply to the carburetors?

[Lowspeed Lowside]

If we choose an asymmetric setup, e.g. turbo rotated by 45° right, cooler rotated by 45° left and 60° upwards (i.e. front view approximately like this but with the in/outlet facing backward):

then we have fewer front wheel clearance issues and a much larger angle before the cooler grinds the ground. Weight (~10lbs each) and drag (the air-intake would be on the right) should be distributed fairly evenly. As far as I can tell, the main drawback is that constructing an equal length exhaust manifold will be more difficult and require significantly more piping (i.e. we cannot simply connect the turbo with two mirror-symmetric 1" pipes).

[Lowspeed Lowside]

(click image for full article)

Ordering electronic components from eBay is apparently cheaper than from digikey. I found a 700-point solderless breadboard for $2.84 shipped and a pack of 860 resistors for $7.99 shipped. Made a $10 offer for four ignition IGBTs.

[Lowspeed Lowside]

Throttle Bodies(VW Golf 1.4 L) $106.18 shipped



I think it has a 44mm diameter - the 52mm ones look bulkier. If anybody knows more about this throttle body, or knows where to get a throttle with the same or superior specs, or has a different idea altogether...your help is appreciated. At this price it should include a throttle position sensor and a stepper motor, which means that we could do something similar to this with a little added effort:

Link to original page on YouTube.

In short: I think I'm going to risk it. Even if our engine isn't revvy enough to play 1/8th (no to mention 1/16th) notes, it should be fun nonetheless.

[rusninja]

weres the turbo. :P

[Lowspeed Lowside]

I don't mind 600cc supersports smoking us but yesterday night I was flying home from work at 100mph and got passed by a nondescript 4-door sedan. @rusninja: you'll have to wait until Dec/Jan/Feb before that, you're unlikely to see any progress.

EDIT: I've given up looking for possible throttles. Car throttle not suitable/too expensive, couldn't get a decent quote for an actual motorcycle throttle, so we'll have to modify stock. How exactly, I can only figure out when I take the bike apart and can get a closer look at the stock setup. Crank-case ventilation will have to go directly into the exhaust relying on the conda-effect and maybe using a tesla-valve. How cool is that!

[greg737]

Two months without a crazy post... I'm starting to get withdrawal symptoms.

[Racer x]

He is still thinking

[Lowspeed Lowside]

I wish. Unfortunately, I'm just working too much to get *anything* else done.

[greg737]

I wish. Unfortunately, I'm just working too much to get *anything* else done.

I'm pretty sure you meant to say,

"We wish. Unfortunately, We're just working too much to get *anything* else done."

You "broke character" on me just now and it was a bit scary.

[ninja_thresh_hold]

Originally Posted by Lowspeed Lowside

looking for a practical way to do this

okay so this is what i am using,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTORCYCLE-Q...ht_1160wt_1270

this is the cheapest turbo ive found

and if you are in the usa like me and you are stuck with a carbed version of the ninjette, heres the efi kit im using
http://www.ecotrons.com/Kawasaki_Nin...c_EFI_kit.html

as for the header and blow off valve,youll have to find a blow off valve to use(ive not found one yet) and the header youll have to have one custom made.

[rusninja]

Originally Posted by ninja_thresh_hold

okay so this is what i am using,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTORCYCLE-Q...ht_1160wt_1270

this is the cheapest turbo ive found

and if you are in the usa like me and you are stuck with a carbed version of the ninjette, heres the efi kit im using
http://www.ecotrons.com/Kawasaki_Nin...c_EFI_kit.html

as for the header and blow off valve,youll have to find a blow off valve to use(ive not found one yet) and the header youll have to have one custom made.

do i smell a diy

[Lowspeed Lowside]

I will continue to work 60+ hours/week probably until March. I'm way behind schedule and have no way to make up for the lost time.

The only areas where there has been some progress concerns the design of the exhaust manifold and the software for the ucontroller.

I think I will not be using the waste-gate for pressure control. There is a way to relieve pressure through the engine, which would not only eliminate a BOV, but also cool the engine and keep the turbo spinning a bit longer. Of course this requires either a servo or a stepper motor to control the throttle...

In any case, the bike goes into storage on January 1st. I'll disassemble it as time allows.

Good luck, ninja_thresh_hold.

[RobDog]

what happened to this guy?

[greg737]

That's what I asked when he first started posting crazy stuff on this thread.

Pretty much predicted this thread's death. The whole thing read like a product of the "manic" phase of a bipolar psychiatric disorder.

I found the whole thing to be disturbing and unproductive. I'd actually planned to bump this thread back to life for a little gloat over the accuracy of my prediction that it would die with a wimper rather than a success, with my original diagnosis of "batshit crazy" (in post number 24 on the first page of this thread), but Alex shamed me out of it. However, now that you brought it back up I can't resist, sorry Alex.

[RobDog]

Originally Posted by greg737

That's what I asked when he first started posting crazy stuff on this thread.

Pretty much predicted this thread's death. The whole thing read like a product of the "manic" phase of a bipolar psychiatric disorder.

I found the whole thing to be disturbing and unproductive. I'd actually planned to bump this thread back to life for a little gloat over the accuracy of my prediction that it would die with a wimper rather than a success, with my original diagnosis of "batshit crazy" (in post number 24 on the first page of this thread), but Alex shamed me out of it. However, now that you brought it back up I can't resist, sorry Alex.

LOL nice

[Racer x]

I bet my prediction that the most that would come from this thread was a box of junk on a shelf has probubly come true also.

[ninja_thresh_hold]

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108681 efi makes turboing easier and more efficient

[Racer x]

Easy efficient was not the point of this thread. He said he could do it all for 1000 dollars.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Racer x

Easy efficient was not the point of this thread. He said he could do it all for 1000 dollars.

unless he got a lot of stuff free and got someone to weld everything for free. there was no way he could get under $1000 bucks.

[Racer x]

I don't think he could do it with 10000 dollars all free welding and dyno time. I know people that have built ground up turbo systems. They are very smart and experienced people. There is more to it than bolting together parts.And trolling the Internet

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I don't think he could do it with 10000 dollars all free welding and dyno time. I know people that have built ground up turbo systems. They are very smart and experienced people. There is more to it than bolting together parts.And trolling the Internet

the parts are well over $1000 alone, even if he had experience and a fabrication shop, it could not have been done on his budget.

yeah we got trolled.

[RobDog]

guess his 'Mensa' got the better of him

[ninja_thresh_hold]

Originally Posted by rusninja

do i smell a diy

im going to make a DIY when ever i get the funds to get the right stuff, i ended up needing to spend money on new fairings :[

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by ninja_thresh_hold

im going to make a DIY when ever i get the funds to get the right stuff, i ended up needing to spend money on new fairings :[

Did you even read this thread...

If money for fairings temporarily detoured your dreams of a turbo then a completed turbo system is like asking for the moon delivered to your doorstep this Friday at noon. Geez...

Maybe you can contact the original OP and barter for his box of junk...

[ninja_thresh_hold]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

Did you even read this thread...

If money for fairings temporarily detoured your dreams of a turbo then a completed turbo system is like asking for the moon delivered to your doorstep this Friday at noon. Geez...

Maybe you can contact the original OP and barter for his box of junk...

lol nty, i have all of the things i need picked out, im buying a seadoo turbo, efi kit from ecotrons and the koso digital guges, and i already have my custom header made and idk what you mean by a kit? there is no kit im buying individule pieces? >.>

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by ninja_thresh_hold

lol nty, i have all of the things i need picked out, im buying a seadoo turbo, efi kit from ecotrons and the koso digital guges, and i already have my custom header made and idk what you mean by a kit? there is no kit im buying individule pieces? >.>

What kit? I said nothing about a kit...

Hey man, no harm intended. America has been built with people that dream big. I foresee hard times ahead for you but keep us informed. GL!

[ninja_thresh_hold]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

What kit? I said nothing about a kit...

Hey man, no harm intended. America has been built with people that dream big. I foresee hard times ahead for you but keep us informed. GL!

lol thanks! ill be sure to post pics when i get the stuff i need :]

[Racer x]

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by Racer x

Great entertainment isn't it? lol

[Racer x]

Honestly I am totally supportive of this . I will offer any assistance I can. I think this is the fifth or sixth turbo 250 thread. I hope it goes well.

[ninja_thresh_hold]

Originally Posted by Racer x

Honestly I am totally supportive of this . I will offer any assistance I can. I think this is the fifth or sixth turbo 250 thread. I hope it goes well.

im just waiting to sell some fairings i got stuck with so ill have 800 bucks to work with :]

[thomason2wheels]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

The reason why there's a single intercooler and not a twin set up is because you have to have the intercooler facing forward. There's not enough surface area of the face of the bike to mount any such twin intercooler setup.

The other factor you haven't discussed is the problem of the stock components. A carb setup wouldn't work with a turbo efficiently. When the turbo creates pressure, you would need tons of fuel. When it's not making +pressure, all that fuel in a carb setup will cause the engine to run rich. This is primarily why EFI is required for a turbo setup. It's why you will find old carb'ed muscle cars with superchargers and not turbochargers.

I can't imagine anyone running 23psi into a 250 engine. I won't say it's not possible, but the chances of the engine surviving more than a single run wouldn't be high. You would need to lower compression to run high boost. If you can reliably make X amount of HP at 12psi and retain the stock compression ratio, that would be easier than having custom pistons made to lower the CR so you can run more boost and make the same power as X @ 12psi.

If there was a good way to use the stock carbs and have them be on the intake side of the turbo, it would solve many of the mixtture problems associated with pressurizing the ccarbs.

Anybody remember the old turbo corvair? It worked well with a draw through carrbureted system. Any thoughts?

[Racer x]

I had about twenty corvairs. Great cars. I never had a turbo though.
To answer your question. A draw through wet system would work. Low boost with no intercooler. But you would need a bigger carb and use one.
A single 32mm carb might not work so well. I shy away from the wet system. Something about putting a volitile air fuel mixture under pressure in a pipe next to my leg.

If you go to the Ecotron web page. They sell a fuel system and a turbo that looks like it will all work for the ninja. The funny thing is the parts cost less than 1000 dollars. Out lost friend might not have been so bat **** crazy after all. But you would still need to fabricate pipes and do some engine work to make it happen.

[lgk]

the intake pipes and exhaust manifold push the price over $1000.

the youtube video said it had 58hp and the CR was 8.2 with the .75bar or about 11 psi.
i'm not sure the bottom end could last many 50hp pulls.