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Old July 29th, 2015, 12:55 PM   #1
JayJay
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mid-size bikes

My boyfriend and I were talking last night, eventually I want to move up to something a little bigger, around a 600. but no bigger than a 750. I want something bigger so 1.) it's easier for me to ride with my boyfriend. I have a hard time keeping up with him, he's on the '01 Aprilia RSV Mille(litre bike<3), and 2.) I never wanted to start out at a 250 to begin with, BUT I'M SO GLAD I DID!!!! I just know I will eventually want something with a little more.

I reeeally like the way the Daytona Triumph 675 looks, of course i've never been around anything else, so i'm going strictly off looks ( typical woman )

I would also be so estatic if KTM would make a mid-size bike...but I don't feel real confident that that's going to happen. I LOVE KTM bikes.


BUT! What I was getting at, if you guys had the opportunity/means/desire to move up to a bigger bike, what bike would you get??
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Old July 29th, 2015, 01:10 PM   #2
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My boyfriend and I were talking last night, eventually I want to move up to something a little bigger, around a 600. but no bigger than a 750. I want something bigger so 1.) it's easier for me to ride with my boyfriend. I have a hard time keeping up with him, he's on the '01 Aprilia RSV Mille(litre bike<3), and 2.) I never wanted to start out at a 250 to begin with, BUT I'M SO GLAD I DID!!!! I just know I will eventually want something with a little more.

I reeeally like the way the Daytona Triumph 675 looks, of course i've never been around anything else, so i'm going strictly off looks ( typical woman )

I would also be so estatic if KTM would make a mid-size bike...but I don't feel real confident that that's going to happen. I LOVE KTM bikes.


BUT! What I was getting at, if you guys had the opportunity/means/desire to move up to a bigger bike, what bike would you get??
KTM has a duke 690, that fits your size requirement sinze you didnt say it had to be a sport bike... (judging by you wanting a daytona though i think thats what you want)

I have nothing else to add though, my garage will always have different styles and sizes of bikes so i couldnt pick just 1. I will say this, if i had to sell all but one, i would keep the 250...
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Old July 29th, 2015, 01:22 PM   #3
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Well, I have, so I'm biased.

It's not about the number of cc's the engine has. It's about how it delivers power.

I won't get into the gorpy details of torque, horsepower and dyno charts here. Suffice it to say that in the real world of street riding, power and torque down low are better than lots of power at high revs.

A very popular (and now discontinued, sadly) midsized bike is the Suzuki SV650. It makes a lot less power than a 600cc supersport at high revs, but it makes MORE power and MORE torque where it matters, at about 5,000 rpm.

650 is more cc's than 600. But it doesn't matter in the real world.

My bike, a GSX-R750, makes power and torque like the SV at real-world rpms AND also makes huge power when you wind it up. Cool, huh?

If I were moving up, I'd think about the following, in order of priority:

1) Livability. What will the bike be like to live with every day? Will you struggle to back it up the slightest incline? Will it be so tall that putting your foot down on a little gravel will present a real risk of dropping the bike? Will it have such an extreme riding position that you'll want to throw it off a bridge after a few hours? Is it so freakin' heavy that you struggle to get it up off the kickstand? That Daytona is very sexy, but it's a bit tall.

2) Real-world utility. See above re power and torque. A high-strung sportbike that only gets fun when you're screaming around at license-suspension speeds can be frustrating on the street. Look for what it's like to ride at 35-60 mph where you're going to be spending 99.99 percent of your time, not at speeds you're not likely to ever see.

3) Ride quality and handling. Bargain-basement bikes have bargain-basement suspension, wimpy brakes and crappy tires. You can fix all of this, of course, but it's a factor in choice.

4) Bang for the buck. My bike cost four times what I paid for my Ninjette, has five times the performance and costs seven times as much to insure. Make sure you do your homework.

5) Personal preference regarding bike style. I love sportbikes and the sportbike riding position. This stuff matters.

6) Looks. Part of motorcycling is that it moves your soul. It's hard to love a bike you can't stand to look at. But I put this last for a reason... choosing a bike simply because it looks cool puts the cart before the horse.

My own choice of a GSX-R 750 was motivated by the desire to have a true sportbike experience, including the track. If I knew I'd only ride on the street, I'd have gotten something else.

A great choice as a practical, affordable step up:

KTM RC-390. A very sizeable bump in power from your Ninjette, very light, very sporty, very user-friendly, funky style. Ride it right and I'll bet you could keep up with your BF everywhere except the straights.

Upgrading to a midsized true sportbike, I'd go for:
Kawasaki ZX6R 636 (great package with good features, looks sharp)
GSX-R600 or 750 (bias speaking here... but it really is a great bike and good for short people)
Triumph Daytona 675R (sexay)

Current faves in the non-sportbike category are:

Yamaha FZ-07 and FZ-09
Triumph Speed Triple, except for those damned praying-mantis headlights. Ugh.
Ducati Monsters or BMW R-nineT if you've got the coin.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 01:23 PM   #4
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Yes, I want to stay with the sportier bikes. The Duke is cute, it looks a lot like a dirt bike to me in a wierd way though
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Old July 29th, 2015, 01:26 PM   #5
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@adouglas, I've came to the conclusion that absolutely ANYTHING i buy, will have to be lowered. Even my cute little ninja has been lowered ~2inches.
My inseam is only 29". I'm super super short. Life's hard.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 01:30 PM   #6
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RC390 isn't a Duke. It's a real sport bike... and it's so narrow and light you might be able to handle it.

My inseam is 30" and I have no trouble with my GSX-R.

Better to get a bike that fits you than compromise an otherwise nice bike.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 01:41 PM   #7
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In previous posts the duke was mentioned.



The 390 is veryyy attractive. How does it really compare with the ninja 250? I know I sound pretty clueless and helpless, but work internet sucks.

I've talked about the Monster696, but i think it's ugly as sin. I don't know why, I just can't get over that big humpback gas tank.

Of course in the long run I would never sacrifice being comfortable and being able to safely handle my bike for looks. But dreaming is fun


Whatcha think about the Aprilia Shiver 750?? Or the Tuono?? Since we're talking about dreaming! lol!
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Old July 29th, 2015, 01:46 PM   #8
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Btw, @adouglas, you're always really helpful and full of info! haven't been on here long, but I always see where you have replied to almost everything
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Old July 29th, 2015, 01:49 PM   #9
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ASsuming money was no object... ZX6R or at least the Ninja 650...
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Old July 29th, 2015, 01:53 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by JayJay View Post
Btw, @adouglas, you're always really helpful and full of info! haven't been on here long, but I always see where you have replied to almost everything
That's because I'm a wordy SOB with no life.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 01:58 PM   #11
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The 390 is veryyy attractive. How does it really compare with the ninja 250?
Seen one but never ridden... on paper, it's got WAY more power and torque, similar weight, sportier geometry. A true sport bike compared to the Ninjette, which is really more of a "sporty" street bike. I'd love one as a track toy.

My only beef is that it's a single, and therefore sounds like giant weed wacker. Wish it were a twin. REALLY wish it were a triple, because triples sound like sex.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 02:04 PM   #12
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Honestly, a 600 supersport makes for a "not so great" street bike. I love my 6R when riding hard and short spirited jaunts, and the bike enjoys it, but just commuting style rides of any length.....I more often take the 250. My friend has an SV and my brother a Monster and both bikes make for better all around street bikes than my 6R. I have put around 500-600 miles on a 650R and the same thing can be said for it as well.

If I could bare to part with her I would sell the 6R and pick up a mid 2000s Monster and a 03-04 600RR or 6R track bike.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 02:06 PM   #13
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Lol!! If you didn't have a life you wouldn't know this stuff!!


The more i look at that 390, the prettier it gets!

we just need a ninja a little bigger than the 300, and a little smaller than the 650, perfect woman's bike. Oh the dreams!
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Old July 29th, 2015, 02:10 PM   #14
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The Triumph is a triple I think?? Still probably too big for me to be comfy on.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 02:49 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
Well, I have, so I'm biased.

It's not about the number of cc's the engine has. It's about how it delivers power.

…Suffice it to say that in the real world of street riding, power and torque down low are better than lots of power at high revs.
Captain O is right on the money! That’s why I kept the KLR250 and sold the Ninjette. Two bikes are enough for me: the baby KLR and the 3-cylinder K75. Both these bikes have the down-low torque and provide a comfortable ride-erect (so to speak) posture. Ironically, the pre-gen Ninjette was the most exepensive of the three to insure.

If I ever get a full-on sport bike, it’ll probably be a Gixxer 750.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 02:56 PM   #16
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Id your talking shiver then your looking at the naked or standard bike category ( i loved the shiver ), so Fz7, Fz9, duke 690, street triple, sv650 and a ton others are out there as well. The 600 segment doesnt do much for me, although i loved the zx6 motor, i didnt feel like i fit well. I fit better than my 250 but thats not saying a lot. My list of bikes goes as follows

Ninja 250, Ninja 1000 (replacement will be a BMW full tourer of some type), Ducati 848 (possibly replaced with an 899 in the future), KTM Superduke, Honda CRF250. Then i will have every segment covered (notice i only need 2 more bikes)

I like the shiver 750 but i sat and said if im going to own 1 naked bike its the super duke. I may end up with an aprilia rsv1000 though, just because id like to have an aprilia anyway.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 04:11 PM   #17
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Maybe your boyfriend just needs to chill and slow down a little? If he's going so fast your Ninja can't keep up then he's going too fast for a group ride.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 05:54 PM   #18
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Here's an alternate idea.

Instead of spending money on a different bike, do several track days... but keep them a deep dark secret. Don't let your boyfriend know.

Learn how to REALLY ride that Ninjette.

Then, one fine day, go for a ride with him. Choose a twisty road where he won't have as much of a horsepower advantage.

Then, when he least expects it.....

POUNCE!!!

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Old July 29th, 2015, 06:33 PM   #19
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The Triumph 675 engine is a beautiful engine. If I wanted a sportbike in the 600cc range I'd be looking for a Daytona 675. I recently got a Street Triple and it makes for an EXCELLENT street bike.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 06:56 PM   #20
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I own a ninja 300 and FZ07. I absolutely love my FZ07 for everyday riding. It makes great street usable power/torque, it is so easy to handle, it looks killer and it can handle any type of riding I do. However, I do hate long highway trips on it since I do not have a screen.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 09:42 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
Here's an alternate idea.

Instead of spending money on a different bike, do several track days... but keep them a deep dark secret. Don't let your boyfriend know.

Learn how to REALLY ride that Ninjette.

Then, one fine day, go for a ride with him. Choose a twisty road where he won't have as much of a horsepower advantage.

Then, when he least expects it.....

POUNCE!!!

Age and treachery will always beat youth and honesty.
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Old July 29th, 2015, 10:18 PM   #22
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The street triple would be much better than the daytona 675 unless you're riding track. The daytona is an amazing but focused machine as is the street triple, for street riding the street triple is the clear winner in every way from comfort to convenience and they even do fantastically on the track as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJay View Post
In previous posts the duke was mentioned.

The 390 is veryyy attractive. How does it really compare with the ninja 250? I know I sound pretty clueless and helpless, but work internet sucks.
The 390 is an amazing and fantastic bike, I've come across and raced against several at the track, granted the majority of those were the motoamerica cup bikes. It has more power than the ninja 300, handles better than the ninja 300, has better brakes, and is fairly comfortable having sat on one. KTM really did a great job on the bike from a performance standpoint. As for reliability and functionality I do not know, but there are many bikes you could get that are not as comfortable or practical. I would very strongly consider getting one as my next bike if anything happened to my ninja 300 (honestly, I'd probably just get another 300 but the option is there)

Quote:
Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
Here's an alternate idea.

Instead of spending money on a different bike, do several track days... but keep them a deep dark secret. Don't let your boyfriend know.

Learn how to REALLY ride that Ninjette.

Then, one fine day, go for a ride with him. Choose a twisty road where he won't have as much of a horsepower advantage.

Then, when he least expects it.....

POUNCE!!!

I love it
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Old July 29th, 2015, 10:21 PM   #23
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Old July 30th, 2015, 06:17 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
Here's an alternate idea.

Instead of spending money on a different bike, do several track days... but keep them a deep dark secret. Don't let your boyfriend know.

Learn how to REALLY ride that Ninjette.

Then, one fine day, go for a ride with him. Choose a twisty road where he won't have as much of a horsepower advantage.

Then, when he least expects it.....

POUNCE!!!



This made me laugh so much. I would absolutely LOVE to go do a few track days, but i'm not near a track

He never runs off on me, he's good about keeping pace with me, or i'm good with keeping pace with him rather. We have a long straight stretch before we get home, its about 8 miles, like maybe 3 easy sloping curves, while he's alone he easily runs 85+, he's comfortable with that. Myself, alone, I run like 70-75, where i'm comfortable. Then if we are riding together we run like 70. The only times I seriously can't keep up with him is coming away from stop lights, stop signs, etc. He drops a gear and is gone. Literally gone.

I probably put out a bad impression of him saying that I can't keep up with him, he really does make a point to stay with me, and he has taught me a lot.


I'm so torn between a naked touring type bike (ie, shiver.) and a street bike. If i go the route of a naked touring bike, i'll definately get the shiver, secondhand of course. Otherwise, I like the KTM RC390.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 06:20 AM   #25
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I don't have nearly as much experience as a lot of people here, but if you like the 250 and just want more power, the Ninja 500 might be an option.

It's got almost exactly twice the power of the 250, in both horsepower and torque. I can surpass any speed limit in the state in 3rd gear, but it maxes out at ~120mph in perfect conditions. Not that you can't still get very dead at 120 or slower, but you don't have to worry about accidentally bumping the throttle and hitting 160. It shares a lot of parts, or has very similar parts, with the 250. It's a little heavier, but it's still a pretty small, agile bike. It has similar ergos to the 250 as well - it's sporty looking, but you still sit pretty upright. Around here, they're quite cheap too - I was originally looking for a 250, and ended up with my 500 because it was cheaper than I could find any decent 250.

Downsides: They stopped making them in '09, so used is your only option. Very little has changed on the bike since their introduction in the late '80s (there was a styling upgrade in the '90s that also fixed a few weak spots), which means they're somewhat lacking in the tech department, but that also means they're pretty simple to work on. The Gen1 looks a lot like the PreGen if you're into that "classic" styling, and the Gen2 is typical '90s styling. Some people hate that, because it's not really "classic" or "modern", it's just that odd chunk in between. It's also got separate upper and lower fairings, with the engine fairly exposed in between - again, a lot of people don't like that look.



The banana seat gives you some room to trim it down to make it easier to reach the ground, without affecting the handling of the bike by changing the suspension (by the specs, the seat height is the same as the 250). The fork springs are pretty much worthless for any adult, but that gives you a chance to buy ones that actually match your weight instead of just tolerating the stockers (if you're that short, you might be light enough for the rear spring to be a pretty good match for you). Despite their long production run and popularity in racing, there's not much of an aftermarket for them, if you're into bolt-on farkles. However, they're also tuned quite well from the factory, so you don't really need to slap on a lot of the usual stuff that people tend to do.


http://cycle-ergo.com/ can help you get an idea of how you'll fit on bikes you're looking at too. It's no substitute for actually trying the bikes out, but it'll show if you'll be hunched way over or something.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 06:52 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJay View Post
He never runs off on me, he's good about keeping pace with me, or i'm good with keeping pace with him rather. We have a long straight stretch before we get home, its about 8 miles, like maybe 3 easy sloping curves, while he's alone he easily runs 85+, he's comfortable with that. Myself, alone, I run like 70-75, where i'm comfortable. Then if we are riding together we run like 70. The only times I seriously can't keep up with him is coming away from stop lights, stop signs, etc. He drops a gear and is gone. Literally gone.

I'm so torn between a naked touring type bike (ie, shiver.) and a street bike. If i go the route of a naked touring bike, i'll definately get the shiver, secondhand of course. Otherwise, I like the KTM RC390.
Because he's on a 1000, that's not going to change much no matter what you get.

It may be difficult to find a used Shiver, and they can be troublesome - if I'm not mistaken.

Because of your size, you don't need a big bike. If you like the RC390, I would see if you can take one for a ride. It's not a huge step up from your 250 in the power department though. Handling is great, but it's not going to keep you any closer to the Mille.

Other choices for a good mid-sized bike would be the Ninja 650 or a used SV 650. Read some of the middleweight shootouts and see what appeals to you.
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