Question to electrical experts...

[Betlog]

So it appears my taillight finally gave up (original post at http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=35658). So I need to buy a new bulb but all they have at my local Pepboys/Kragen are 12.8Volt, 27w/6.7w Sylvania bulbs and the one from Cycle Gear which is a Philips 12Volt, 26.88w/8.26w bulb (which I bought). The manual says stock is 12Volt, 21w/5w. So if I use the Philips (which btw on their site also says it's 12.8 even though the packaging says 12), will I mess up anything?

[Alex]

Nope.

[Betlog]

Originally Posted by Alex

Nope.

Ah ok, so I'm good to go. However, just for my personal education, can you care to explain wny?

[Alex]

An 1157 bulb is an 1157 bulb. The small variations of voltage ratings aren't anything to stay up nights worrying about.

[Betlog]

I guess my question is more in generality - why would a higher rated voltage device work on a 12v spec'ed source? How about the opposite? Would say a 10volt device work on the 12v spec'ed source?

[Alex]

The bulbs aren't different voltage. It's just different labelling. Our bikes are running a "12-volt" system, but there's actually a bit more than 12 volts on average, 12.8 is a decent estimate depending on where and how it's measured. But whether the bike is putting out 10 volts or 14 volts, the bulbs will work fine. (The electronics on the bike might not, though...)

[Sailariel]

Alex, Since you are on the subject of tail/brake lights, I have a question. On our bikes the tail light lens is red and the 1157 bulb is white. Now, when white light goes through a red lens, what colors are filtered out? (White, being the presence of all color) Now if we put a red 1157 bulb in the same place---red would enable red, so theoretically a red bulb would appear brighter. I do notice on the newer cars with LED lights, that the tail lights are clear and that the LED lights are red. On the Cadillac, however, they have red LED lights behind a red lens, and at least to me they appear brighter. I am going to try to find a red 1157 bulb and see where it goes.

[rockNroll]

Your tail lamp will be dimmer than it is now.

[sombo]

Ok, what that voltage rating means is what it's max voltage is. If you were to put a lower voltage bulb in there (say the 10v you said), the bulb would not be able to handle the voltage and would blow nearly the instant it was powered. However, a 12.8v rating is there to be able to handle the spikes in a vehicle's electrical system. The electrical system in vehicles (especially our little ninjettes) are not very clean or stable by electronics terms. They are stable/clean enough to use safely however, you just have to use items that can withstand a decent amount of fluctuation in voltage.

Now the wattage rating is what will really show the difference. The higher the wattage rating the brighter it's going to be. So, they are actually going to be brighter, not dimmer (sorry rock) if you use the sylvania's.

[kkim]

lol... check post #4.

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by sombo

Now the wattage rating is what will really show the difference. The higher the wattage rating the brighter it's going to be. So, they are actually going to be brighter, not dimmer (sorry rock) if you use the sylvania's.

Well, @ 12.8 volts its 27 watts....... At 12.0 volts, its only 25.3 watts

[Betlog]

Originally Posted by sombo

Ok, what that voltage rating means is what it's max voltage is. If you were to put a lower voltage bulb in there (say the 10v you said), the bulb would not be able to handle the voltage and would blow nearly the instant it was powered. However, a 12.8v rating is there to be able to handle the spikes in a vehicle's electrical system. The electrical system in vehicles (especially our little ninjettes) are not very clean or stable by electronics terms. They are stable/clean enough to use safely however, you just have to use items that can withstand a decent amount of fluctuation in voltage.

Now the wattage rating is what will really show the difference. The higher the wattage rating the brighter it's going to be. So, they are actually going to be brighter, not dimmer (sorry rock) if you use the sylvania's.

Thanks to everyone, specially sombo for this explanation.

[noche_caliente]

Originally Posted by sixer

Hey can i jump in with a question also ?? i bought a led license plate light can i just plung and play it or do i need fuse ect?

- im keeping the stock turns ect for now.

Hee hee

plug and play

[sombo]

Originally Posted by HKr1

Well, @ 12.8 volts its 27 watts....... At 12.0 volts, its only 25.3 watts

Yes, and at 25.3w for the Sylvania's it's more then the 21w stated in the manual for stock. Therefore it's brighter instead of dimmer. I rest my case.

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by sombo

Yes, and at 25.3w for the Sylvania's it's more then the 21w stated in the manual for stock. Therefore it's brighter instead of dimmer. I rest my case.

But he bought the Philips @ 12v 26.88w.... So its brighter

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by sombo

Now the wattage rating is what will really show the difference. The higher the wattage rating the brighter it's going to be. So, they are actually going to be brighter, not dimmer (sorry rock) if you use the sylvania's.

Don't be sorry, I was correct... using a red bulb will make the tail light look dimmer.

[sombo]

Originally Posted by HKr1

But he bought the Philips @ 12v 26.88w.... So its brighter

I was responding to the fact that either bulb he uses is of higher wattage then the stock and therefore either one would be brighter. I just used the Sylvania name cause it was the first one I remembered.

Originally Posted by rockNroll

Don't be sorry, I was correct... using a red bulb will make the tail light look dimmer.

I was not aware that either bulb was red. I thought both bulbs were clear and therefore they would be brighter. If the one he got is red then the wattage wouldn't count for as much in it's brightness.

[Betlog]

Originally Posted by sombo

I was responding to the fact that either bulb he uses is of higher wattage then the stock and therefore either one would be brighter. I just used the Sylvania name cause it was the first one I remembered.



I was not aware that either bulb was red. I thought both bulbs were clear and therefore they would be brighter. If the one he got is red then the wattage wouldn't count for as much in it's brightness.

The one I bought is clear.

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by Sailariel

I am going to try to find a red 1157 bulb and see where it goes.

My mistake sombo, I shoulda quoted.

[gizmogamez]

can I play devils advocate here and mention that the wattage (W) rating has nothing to do with the brightness. a higher wattage bulb just uses more power (in the case of a 12v bulb, a 10w bulb would haver a current draw of 0.83A, where a 20w bulb would have double that) brightness is measured in lumens
Think of the W standing for "work" or "work required" to produce the given lumen rating with the supplied V
CF bulbs are more efficient then incandescent and there for have a lower (w) rating for the equivalent brightness.

[sombo]

Yes that is true, however manufacturers use wattage as something the general public recognizes and associates with brightness. Go look at all the bulbs made for homes and all you'll see is wattage and not lumens. Even the florescent bulbs are shown with their wattage and the equivalent incandescent bulb so people know which ones will be 'bright' enough for what they need. This is done to keep from confusing the non-electrical people in the public. You will find lights labeled in lumen in the form of flashlights and such, but that is from different manufacturers who are selling to a customer base who would better understand what that meant. And yes I come from an electronic background lol.

[gizmogamez]

Originally Posted by sombo

Yes that is true, however manufacturers use wattage as something the general public recognizes and associates with brightness. Go look at all the bulbs made for homes and all you'll see is wattage and not lumens. Even the florescent bulbs are shown with their wattage and the equivalent incandescent bulb so people know which ones will be 'bright' enough for what they need. This is done to keep from confusing the non-electrical people in the public. You will find lights labeled in lumen in the form of flashlights and such, but that is from different manufacturers who are selling to a customer base who would better understand what that meant. And yes I come from an electronic background lol.

thx tips

guess you missed the part about me just playing devils advocate to be a pita...

I'm well aware of why they use (w) in reference to light bulbs. However now I feel like being a bigger pita, so I'll point out that they don't use (w) on light bulbs because it's something that the public can understand. they use it because knowing the (w) and the (V) you can figure out the (I) draw of a bulb and so it's load on a system. Lumens has no way of letting you figure this out. That's why they don't use it on anything that draws power directly from a system like your house wiring, but you will see it listed if you go look at something like a projector.

where you are correct is in that since the light bulb has remained mostly unchanged over it's life (few exceptions i know), people have now come to associate (w) with the brightness of a bulb so that's why it was just left that way, and to avoid people thinking CF's are not as bright they do show an equivalent rating on the package. lets just wait till LED's drop in price lol theres some confusion lol

[sombo]

Originally Posted by gizmogamez

lets just wait till LED's drop in price lol theres some confusion lol

OMG that will create mass chaos as people look at them and go huh?

Also a lot of people will probably not like the light from the led's since it's quite different then that of your normal bulb.

[jonthechron]

Originally Posted by sombo

OMG that will create mass chaos as people look at them and go huh?

Also a lot of people will probably not like the light from the led's since it's quite different then that of your normal bulb.

They will get used to it. As of 2020, incandescent bulbs will be phased out and banned from being sold anywhere in the USA and well for those of you who live in Canada this ban should be in effect by 2012

[tjkamper]

Originally Posted by Sailariel

Alex, Since you are on the subject of tail/brake lights, I have a question. On our bikes the tail light lens is red and the 1157 bulb is white. Now, when white light goes through a red lens, what colors are filtered out? (White, being the presence of all color) Now if we put a red 1157 bulb in the same place---red would enable red, so theoretically a red bulb would appear brighter. I do notice on the newer cars with LED lights, that the tail lights are clear and that the LED lights are red. On the Cadillac, however, they have red LED lights behind a red lens, and at least to me they appear brighter. I am going to try to find a red 1157 bulb and see where it goes.

The problem with your theory is that a Red bulb does not actually produce red light. It actually filters the the light from the filiment, through the red glass. This means the light is being filtered twice and if there is the slightest variation in the two colors of red, (Bulb glass, and Brakelight cover) then even less light will come through making the light dimmer.

The LEDs in the Caddy are probably just brighter/more powerful lights.

Good logic though. way to use that old coconut.