January 21st, 2016, 08:58 AM | #41 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Timm
Location: West Seneca, NY
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I'm 5'11". Left hand off the bar and tucked in behind my back every time I get onto a straight. I'm starting to think that I can do it all the way through the kink at Nelson Ledges. Talk about tricks. that one will mess with your competitor's mind when they see you riding through a place like that with one hand. It's not something that I would do on other bikes, but riding a 250 Ninja through there is such a benign event that I think it just might be doable.
Last futzed with by tgold; January 21st, 2016 at 11:51 AM. |
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January 21st, 2016, 09:03 AM | #42 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Timm
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January 21st, 2016, 09:03 AM | #43 | |
ninjette.org guru
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January 21st, 2016, 11:15 AM | #44 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
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Quote:
But how much?
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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January 21st, 2016, 11:47 AM | #45 |
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Race, record time, take fairings off, race, record times, compare.
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Because Unregistered sucks at riding. |
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January 21st, 2016, 11:50 AM | #46 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Timm
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Quote:
Floki, In light of your limited track time for the upcoming season, I'd advise (if at all possible) making sure that your suspension is set up as good as you can afford it to be before you get on track. That will maximize your confidence and make it much easier to get the most out of your track time in terms of making progress. |
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January 21st, 2016, 11:50 AM | #47 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
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We've been down this road before...
It depends. To say flatly that aerodynamics matter more than weight is not true. It depends. Weight has more effect on acceleration...up to a point. Aerodynamics have more effect in certain circumstances. Less weight gives you more consistent benefits in acceleration and braking. Better aerodynamics gives you benefits as speeds increase, but only if you are in a full tuck (no knee out) and at WOT - and speeds are consistently high. Significant streamlining of the rear of a cycle will give more benefit than reducing frontal area, but that's not very practical (or legal) in road racing. A cycle is an aerodynamic mess compared to most vehicles, especially behind the rider. There may be gains to be had in reducing frontal area, but unless you are racing at Road America, weight reduction and increased usable power would show more improvements in laptimes. If you are talking no fairings at all compared to full fairings, the difference would be more significant, but going from one design to a similar but sleeker design won't show the same improvements. My argument is basically that weight reduction and more power have a positive effect for more time per lap than aerodynamic improvements. |
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January 21st, 2016, 12:55 PM | #48 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Timm
Location: West Seneca, NY
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Quote:
I'm not saying that weight doesn't matter. In the case of the 250 supersport class, there is a limit to how much weight you can take off the bike because the rules are strict. So if everybody else is easily able to exploit the rules to the same level, there isn't going to be much difference between bikes as far as weight is concerned. So where do you turn for an advantage? Aerodynamics in this case matter more because the potential for substantial weight reduction when compared to the next guy is restricted. However, the potential for aerodynamic development is wide open. |
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January 21st, 2016, 01:52 PM | #49 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Pat
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and then some 80# 12yo kid goes blowing by you on a stock bike.....
seriously, unless you want to take 250 racing to a level "most" club racers don't want to go to. |
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January 21st, 2016, 02:57 PM | #50 |
Daily Ninjette rider
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Same with weight?
__________________________________________________
Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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January 21st, 2016, 05:21 PM | #52 |
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I can't believe no one mentioned the ultimate racing trick! I saw this last season in the big league. When someone comes up next to you, stick out your foot and make contact with their bike (as you run wide). I realize this is a "black diamond" move for only the most experienced racer but it seemed to work well.
P.S. Don't use this trick if there are cameras.
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January 21st, 2016, 06:57 PM | #53 |
Certifiable nontundrum
Name: Harper
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Trying to give folks pissy hands again???
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January 21st, 2016, 10:53 PM | #55 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
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Anyone ever consider the effects of where the weight is removed? Lighter wheels, chain, sprockets and rotors would be the most beneficial. that is all rotating mass.
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January 21st, 2016, 10:59 PM | #56 |
Freedom for Germany
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- and now you ask this question: "Anyone ever consider the effects of where the weight is removed? Lighter wheels, chain, sprockets and rotors would be the most beneficial. that is all rotating mass."
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0 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
January 21st, 2016, 11:02 PM | #57 | |
Freedom for Germany
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January 22nd, 2016, 04:02 AM | #58 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Timm
Location: West Seneca, NY
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Quote:
I'm not going to discuss the point any further. |
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January 22nd, 2016, 04:23 AM | #59 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Timm
Location: West Seneca, NY
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Floki,
Have you removed the radiator fan? It really has no effect on cooling while at race speeds. You just need to pay a little more attention to not letting the bike sit and idle too long. 1.3 pound weight loss and allowable in WERA supersport. Last futzed with by tgold; January 22nd, 2016 at 08:02 AM. |
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January 22nd, 2016, 07:56 AM | #60 |
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Rotating mass and unsprung mass is the best place to remove weight, but all weight saving is important.
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January 22nd, 2016, 08:06 AM | #61 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
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you obviously didn't grasp the point of the question.
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January 22nd, 2016, 08:26 AM | #63 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: bruce
Location: northern illinois
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Sub 300# and aerodynamic.
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January 22nd, 2016, 08:34 AM | #64 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Nice looking bike, but it would look better and probably be a little more aerodynamic if you should tucked that silencer into the fairing.
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Because Unregistered sucks at riding. |
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January 22nd, 2016, 08:58 AM | #65 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Timm
Location: West Seneca, NY
Join Date: Oct 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2006 1050 Speed Triple, 2010 250 Ninja racebike, YZF320RR? Racebike Posts: 556
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January 22nd, 2016, 09:00 AM | #66 |
ninjette.org guru
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January 22nd, 2016, 09:16 AM | #67 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: bruce
Location: northern illinois
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I whittle away at it every chance I get. There isn't any one thing that reduced the weight, it's all the small stuff. Every ounce counts.
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January 22nd, 2016, 09:19 AM | #68 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Timm
Location: West Seneca, NY
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January 22nd, 2016, 09:26 AM | #69 |
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I try to save as much weight as possible, but the ninjette needs the thermostat, it takes forever to warm up.
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January 22nd, 2016, 10:00 AM | #70 |
Motorcycle Nurse?
Name: Jacques
Location: Gulf Coast
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I forget who does it but someone drills out the stock rear rotor, sending it to him when I get the chance. Also it looks like I'm removing the fan when I get a chance as well.
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January 22nd, 2016, 10:00 AM | #71 |
Motorcycle Nurse?
Name: Jacques
Location: Gulf Coast
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In WERA Superstock I believe aftermarket wheels have to weigh the same or more than stock wheels, so that's not something I can do.
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January 22nd, 2016, 10:25 AM | #72 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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The tire is the most important part of the wheel weight because its the farthest outside. Some tires can weight alot less than others of the same size.
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January 22nd, 2016, 11:11 AM | #73 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Timm
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That rule was meant for racers who own a pregen to be able to put the newgen OEM wheels on their bikes. The rule itself leaves things pretty open though. The key would be to find wheels that weigh the same, but have a lower moment of inertia (less weight concentrated out towards the rim) That will give you better acceleration. Definitely wouldn't be easy to find the wheel with the best MOI though.
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January 22nd, 2016, 11:14 AM | #74 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Timm
Location: West Seneca, NY
Join Date: Oct 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2006 1050 Speed Triple, 2010 250 Ninja racebike, YZF320RR? Racebike Posts: 556
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The two stroke GP bikes don't come with thermostats. Racers just put strips of tape over the radiator to control the temperature. There are a lot of racers that do install thermostats on them though.
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January 22nd, 2016, 11:58 AM | #75 | ||
ninjette.org sage
Name: Misti
Location: Vancouver, BC
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): currently: Yamaha YZF 250 dirt/motard Posts: 787
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Quote:
I think it is much better to invest in proper rider training and ride the hell out of a stock bike first to gain experience and understanding of how the bike feels and reacts, then to pour money into getting the best bike possible but then having no idea how to ride it correctly. Once you are confident that YOUR riding is not causing handling problems then you can concentrate on making your bike work the best possible way and go the fastest. It makes no sense to change parts and components on the bike because you think that the suspension sucks if you have crappy throttle control that is causing the suspension to feel like it sucks. Of course the winningest combo is a great rider and a great bike, I just think that in general people go about achieving that combo backwards. Get good at riding first Quote:
In my opinion it's a great investment and you'll most likely gain more speed and confidence by taking the school then doing expensive modifications to your bike Let me know if you have any questions about the school
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January 22nd, 2016, 01:30 PM | #76 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Timm
Location: West Seneca, NY
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Quote:
BTW, I went to CSS at Road America in 1985 |
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January 22nd, 2016, 10:15 PM | #77 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
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Quote:
During acceleration, energy is consumed for linear and for rotational acceleration at the same time. Acceleration is the rate at which the bike is able to increase or decrease its speed. Forward acceleration = Linear acceleration + Rotational acceleration = [Forward force / Mass bike+rider] + [Torque / Moment of inertia of rotating parts] Notice that the weight of the rotating parts has double influence, as it is included in both terms of the equation. Nevertheless, the more important factor within this is the distance between the axis of rotation and the concentrated mass. The reason is that the moment of inertia grows with the square of that distance. The mass of the rims of the wheels and the tires are very influential in acceleration and braking. For more, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_of_inertia
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
January 22nd, 2016, 10:46 PM | #78 | |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
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Quote:
https://www.vortexracing.com/index.p...d=19&Itemid=27 |
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January 22nd, 2016, 10:46 PM | #79 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '15
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you can take it to a machine shop and they can trim it down for you.
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January 23rd, 2016, 12:05 AM | #80 |
Freedom for Germany
Location: This World
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R-FI Posts: A lot.
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