K&n 0990 filter on fi ninja

[psych0hans]

^^^ Is this possible?

[DaBlue1]

FI bikes can't remove the airbox due to having an Inlet Air Temperature Sensor on the box, not unless the sensor, the air switching valve (kleen air system) or pod can somehow be modded to work. Because the pods have almost no air volume and pressure(vacuum) differences, it would probably cause the FI system to throw a code and the bike run roughly.

[choneofakind]

So, remove the Kleen system, and mod the R-0990 to fit the sensor by drilling a hole in the rubber and sealing the sensor in it.

I know that we talked about this before, but what exactly do you mean by "air volume difference"? The airbox is a fixed, ridgid object. Its volume isn't going to change either.

The FI system is only sensing temp in the intake, engine temp, and AFR in the exhaust correct?

[DaBlue1]

What do you do with the sensor on the Kleen air system if you remove it?
And are you sure the FI system can compensate for the lack of an airbox and more turbulent air?

[choneofakind]

Well, they make Power Commanders for the FI ninja 250, so the extra flow wouldn't be a big deal. All it would need is a couple dyno runs to get worked out.

Seeing as carb'd bikes do fine with the R-0990, and Greg737 is using an R-0990 on his oem throttlebodies (I know he doesn't have the kleen system to deal with, but the turbulent air is the same and he has a temp probe stuck into the R-0990) without problems, I bet turbulent air isn't a huge deal.

There's sensors in the Kleen system? I was unaware of this from reading through the DIY on removing it. If there is, find a way to fool it into thinking all is well.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

The FI system is only sensing temp in the intake, engine temp, and AFR in the exhaust correct?

These are the list of sensors on the bike;
O2 sensor
Speed Sensor
Main Throttle Sensor
Subthrottle Sensor
Vehicle down Sensor
Crankshaft Sensor
Water Temp Sensor
Inlet Air Temp Sensor (mounted on the airbox)
Inlet Air Pressure Sensor (aka Kleen Air System)

Service Code 12
Inlet Air Pressure
(Absolute)
Pv = 150 ∼ 800 mmHg
If the inlet air pressure sensor system fails (the signal is out of the usable range, wiring short or open), the ECU sets the DFI in the
α-N method.

Note:
(1) α-N Method: the DFI control method from medium to heavy engine load. When the engine load is light like at idling or low speed, the ECU determines the injection quantity by calculating from the
throttle vacuum (inlet air pressure sensor output voltage) and engine speed (crankshaft sensor output voltage). This method is called D-J method. As the engine speed increases, and the engine load turns
middle to heavy, the ECU determines the injection quantity by calculating from the throttle opening (main throttle sensor output voltage) and the engine speed. This method is called α-N method.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

These are the list of sensors on the bike;.....

*snip*

....Inlet Air Pressure Sensor (aka Kleen Air System)

interesting. How do you know that's the kleen system? If you don't mind me asking, where did you find that? I want to read more because I'm curious, not because I doubt your info.

If that sensor can be fooled and the entire kleen system removed, the pod would work.

EDIT: found this http://www.studiokawasaki.com.br/mot..._NINJA_250.pdf

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Note:
(1) α-N Method: the DFI control method from medium to heavy engine load. When the engine load is light like at idling or low speed, the ECU determines the injection quantity by calculating from the
throttle vacuum (inlet air pressure sensor output voltage) and engine speed (crankshaft sensor output voltage).

What I'm getting from that tidbit is that the inlet air pressure sensor is in the throttlebodies because you just said the IAPS output voltage is related to throttle vacuum.

I'm not sure how the Kleen system comes into this. That is likely the same as what's on the ex250J bikes and can be removed/plugged without issue.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

...If you don't mind me asking, where did you find that? I want to read more because I'm curious, not because I doubt your info.

If that sensor can be fooled and the entire kleen system removed, the pod would work.

http://bit.ly/HZwz7p
Chapter 3-44

http://www.cornwallkawasaki.co.uk/sh...agram&id=26244

[psych0hans]

What I'm getting from this thread is that it can be done, but it'll be really hard? I have already bought a PC V along with a drop in and a 0990 filter... Now the question is which one should I use... I've seen a lot of people praising the 0990, is it really that much better than the drop in to make the extra work worth it? Most people in this forum have carb ninjas though, so I'm not sure what the effect would be on the fi ninja... Really confusing...

P.s. I also intend on removing the snorkel...

[psych0hans]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

http://bit.ly/HZwz7p
Chapter 3-44

http://www.cornwallkawasaki.co.uk/sh...agram&id=26244

From what I can make out in the diagram, the air filter 0990 will attach to the tubes, part number 14073... This is common for both fi and carb ninjas?

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

These are the list of sensors on the bike;
O2 sensor
Speed Sensor
Main Throttle Sensor
Subthrottle Sensor
Vehicle down Sensor
Crankshaft Sensor
Water Temp Sensor
Inlet Air Temp Sensor (mounted on the airbox)
Inlet Air Pressure Sensor (aka Kleen Air System)

Service Code 12
Inlet Air Pressure(Absolute)
Pv = 150 ∼ 800 mmHg
If the inlet air pressure sensor system fails (the signal is out of the usable range, wiring short or open), the ECU sets the DFI in the
α-N method.

Note:
(1) α-N Method: the DFI control method from medium to heavy engine load. When the engine load is light like at idling or low speed, the ECU determines the injection quantity by calculating from the
throttle vacuum (inlet air pressure sensor output voltage) and engine speed (crankshaft sensor output voltage). This method is called D-J method. As the engine speed increases, and the engine load turns
middle to heavy, the ECU determines the injection quantity by calculating from the throttle opening (main throttle sensor output voltage) and the engine speed. This method is called α-N method.

Thats the map sensor.

[choneofakind]

Yes it's that much better than the drop-in. Look at it this way. People can use a drop-in filter with the airbox and 98 main jets. When they go to an 0990 pod, they usually switch to 110 or 112 main jets. That's a hug difference in how much air it flows.

Try the pod. If it works, awesome! Take some pictures so you can document what's where and be the first one to possibly get it working.

If you can't get it working, put the airbox back in, pull the snorkel, and install the drop-in filter. Either way, you're going to have to spend some time tweaking the fuel table on the PC V

[greg737]

If you're going to change the amount of air the engine can process (i.e. if you're going to put a free-flowing exhaust and intake on the bike) then I don't think you have any other choice but to put a Power Commander controller on the bike in place of the OEM ECU's chip.

The OEM ECU is hard-programed to work within the operating parameters delivered by the OEM airbox and exhaust. Kawasaki didn't build in (program in) an ability for the OEM ECU to adjust to major changes in the amount of airflow through the engine. Changes like the one you're planning to make (K&N 0990 air filter in place of the airbox and a free flowing 2-into-1 exhaust like the Area P system) would require a whole new fueling table (set up to deliver a lot more fuel than the stock fuel table) for the bike's ECU, which is what the Power Commander provides.

My guess is the Power Commander products take the Kleen system out of play (totally ignore it).

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by greg737

....My guess is the Power Commander products take the Kleen system out of play (totally ignore it).

It bypasses the O2 sensor, which you need a plug (O2 eliminator)for.
http://www.power-commander-shop.com/...inja-250-R.htm

Leo Vince has a system that works with or without the O2 sensor
http://www.leovince.com/en/catalog-k...008_2009/12087