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Old August 26th, 2014, 08:47 AM   #1
Mike K
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Top Speed?

Ok, I know that this is one of those annoying noob questions but what is the approximate max speed of a pre-gen? Mine is an '01 with 8000 miles on it. I've had it to the point that it's maxed out with the speedo reading 106 mph which felt slow so I downloaded a GPS speedo and got a top speed of 97 mph which is probably closer to reality. The good news is that now I'm not so worried about using the Pirelli Diablo scooter tires now. They're a P-speed rated tire (93 mph).

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Old August 26th, 2014, 09:07 AM   #2
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The only silly question is the one that is not asked. The top speed of your bike sounds about right to me, give or take a few mph based on tuning and aftermarket items. I am sure one of the more knowledgeable pregen riders will also comment.
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Old August 26th, 2014, 09:38 AM   #3
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Thanks Chris. These bikes must take a long time getting around some of the bigger tracks. I imagine that the best overtaking is done under late braking and really smooth riding.

I'm thinking of taking a ride down to NJMSP this Saturday to see some club racing. I don't remember which organization it is but I saw it on the track calendar.
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Old August 26th, 2014, 11:57 AM   #4
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107mph is the record for a stock 2007 250 ninja. That is in one mile from a standing start. Down hill you might get a little more
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Old August 26th, 2014, 12:20 PM   #5
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Thanks Eric. Only 107mph. That is pretty darn slow. Seems funny to say that100+ mph is slow doesn't it? Still plenty of fun but you can tell it's working hard on the highway.
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Old August 26th, 2014, 01:32 PM   #6
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It's amazing how hard it is to go faster. The 500 is only 117
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Old August 26th, 2014, 01:45 PM   #7
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The good news is that now I'm not so worried about using the Pirelli Diablo scooter tires now. They're a P-speed rated tire (93 mph).
The tires you have matter that much? What happens when you have poor quality tires and you go too fast? I've got Kenda tires on my Ninja, and they're pretty new, but given my experience with Kenda products with a pedalbike, I can't imagine they're high quality.
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Old August 26th, 2014, 01:53 PM   #8
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It's amazing how hard it is to go faster. The 500 is only 117
That seems low. If it takes 30 hp to go 107, it should only take 41 hp to go 117. I thought a well-tuned (even stock) 500 would have more than 11 hp over a well-tuned 250....
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Old August 26th, 2014, 03:44 PM   #9
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The tires you have matter that much? What happens when you have poor quality tires and you go too fast? I've got Kenda tires on my Ninja, and they're pretty new, but given my experience with Kenda products with a pedalbike, I can't imagine they're high quality.
The key thing here is the speed rating of the tires, rather than the overall quality. The faster you go, the hotter your tires get, and motorcycle tires are built to stand up to a certain maximum sustained temperature before the rubber starts to break down. Here's an explanation of speed ratings and here's a chart of the different speed ratings for motorcycle tires.

Part of the reason to have different speed ratings is that it's hard to make a tire that's both grippy AND resistant to high temperatures. It can certainly be done (see for instance the Bridgestones used in MotoGP for the last few years), but it's much easier to just make the tire out of a softer material to get more grip. Of course that softer material may melt and bubble at high temperatures, so you end up having to rate it for a lower continuous speed. Likewise, the cheapest way to make a tire stand up to higher speeds is to use harder rubber that may just not be very grippy. Hence you can have tires from two different manufacturers that are rated for identical speeds, but with widely differing levels of grip (and cost!).
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Old August 26th, 2014, 04:00 PM   #10
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The key thing here is the speed rating of the tires, rather than the overall quality. The faster you go, the hotter your tires get, and motorcycle tires are built to stand up to a certain maximum sustained temperature before the rubber starts to break down. Here's an explanation of speed ratings and here's a chart of the different speed ratings for motorcycle tires.

Part of the reason to have different speed ratings is that it's hard to make a tire that's both grippy AND resistant to high temperatures. It can certainly be done (see for instance the Bridgestones used in MotoGP for the last few years), but it's much easier to just make the tire out of a softer material to get more grip. Of course that softer material may melt and bubble at high temperatures, so you end up having to rate it for a lower continuous speed. Likewise, the cheapest way to make a tire stand up to higher speeds is to use harder rubber that may just not be very grippy. Hence you can have tires from two different manufacturers that are rated for identical speeds, but with widely differing levels of grip (and cost!).
Interesting. Thank you for an insightful post!
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Old August 26th, 2014, 04:24 PM   #11
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That is what the record was. It ran 117mph bone stock. And after doing a major engine mod and making 60 hp on the dyno it went 124mph. Still in production class. But not stock.
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Old August 26th, 2014, 06:18 PM   #12
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Impressive. Wouldn't mind having a little more push on the highway but in truth I'm usually the fastest thing out there. I really need to ease up until I get the Diablo's on her. She still wearing what I think are the original Dunlops. I haven't had the front let go cornering but the rear has stepped out twice, bothunder too hard braking as I was learning bikes. The rear often gets loose if I down shift aggressively setting up for a slow turn entry using engine braking too much. I have a feeling the Diablo's are going to take some getting used to.

I guess that I should note that while I ride fast on the highway open stretches I never weave in and out of traffic and I don't lane split and I always dork out and wear a leather one-piece. Nobody around here goes full leather but I don't care.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 07:08 AM   #13
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Racer X-- I can't imagine a stock bike hitting that speed. Do you know what they did to ot? Must have been a light weight rider too. Did they change the gearing?

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Old September 2nd, 2014, 10:11 AM   #14
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i hit rev limiter at 107 but it pulled well enough to that point. i will be running a 15/41 combo next chain replacement and will see what the motor can do.

i'm no fatty boomba so some times that helps with the top end speeds
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Old September 2nd, 2014, 01:52 PM   #15
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Racer X-- I can't imagine a stock bike hitting that speed. Do you know what they did to ot? Must have been a light weight rider too. Did they change the gearing?

Mike
The stock 500 had minor bolt on stuff and some head work. The stock exhaust had the baffles removed. The rider is not light weight not does he have a great riding position.
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Old September 2nd, 2014, 03:19 PM   #16
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Is it this one? http://oxcartracing.org/page5.html

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The bike currently holds 5+ production and modified partial streamlined records between 124 and 131 mph at Maxton, Loring and at the Ohio Mile.

The miles on the race motor is unknown but it is very strong. The head was done by Fast by Gast and the cam are by WebCam I believe. Compression is stock. The flywheel is lightened, carbs jetted and exhaust gutted. The chassis/suspension is stock with the exception of clip-ons, a metal chain guard and MPS tether kill switch.
The stock dyno graph I have shows the 500 making about 54hp. I've seen it quoted as 59.1 elsewhere.
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Old September 2nd, 2014, 03:51 PM   #17
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Is it this one? http://oxcartracing.org/page5.html



The stock dyno graph I have shows the 500 making about 54hp. I've seen it quoted as 59.1 elsewhere.
Yup that is the bike. As you can see it's stock and his riding position is not any different than street. 131 is reall good. He is a great guy. And now has a Honda Blackbird
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