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Old November 5th, 2012, 11:23 PM   #161
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@alex.s that was like poetry lmao
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Old November 6th, 2012, 12:12 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post
Great posts, Alex !

Trail braking on track explained by Keith Code:

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...08&#entry25618

Steering is less effective on loose surfaces like sand, and the front tire tends to dig into it rather than leading the bike in a different direction: it is way too easy to overwhelm that front tire.

That is why, steering is frequently accomplished by skidding the rear tire, so pointing the nose of the frame in the new direction while the front tire still rolls in the previous direction, like supermoto riders do even on asphalt.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Man I love that stuff. If I was only 30 years younger and made out of rubber like I was then, I'd be all over that
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Old August 31st, 2014, 08:10 AM   #163
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Old August 31st, 2014, 08:12 AM   #164
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Back in 2012, I learned how to pick up my bike and ride it the rest of the way around Road Atlanta without a right footpeg.
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Old August 31st, 2014, 01:55 PM   #165
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Don't use the front brake in sand.
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Old August 31st, 2014, 05:23 PM   #166
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Don't use the front brake in sand.
Or grass. Thanks Road Atlanta for that lesson!
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Old August 31st, 2014, 09:56 PM   #167
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Ninja 250 is not an ADV bike, even if the ground clearance is fine low speed torque is negligible. It can't hillclimb worth squat.

I don't understand the fear of gravel. Loose on the bars, and you already ditched those stock tires, right? Usually run about 80-85kph if the road's in reasonable shape, now that I've got BT45s. On those stock tires-that-shall-not-be-named, did not do 80 ever... 50-60 was manageable but sketchy IIRC.
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Old September 3rd, 2014, 05:20 PM   #168
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what have i learned from crashing...

* avoid other people
* it isn't over yet
* never give up
* don't let mistakes be an excuse for more mistakes. try to do correct things 100% of the time even if you have made mistakes.
* just because you are scared doesn't mean the bike is (ie- the bikes performance specs stay the same... temporary things are temporary. continuing to do correct things will usually work out)
* if the choice is between guaranteed failure and maybe failure, take the maybe. you might be surprised. if the maybe involves a cliff, it's not a maybe.
* if you're on the track and the choice is between running off and doing something you think wont work, don't be scared to run off. i have run into the dirt topped out in 5th and although my jimmies didn't like it, i kept it up fine and was able to rejoin. but seriously you're on the track so if you're going at a reasonable pace, go for it. crashing on track isn't that bad. but don't go for crazy passes. nobody likes that asshole.
* when you run off track... straight up and down. throttle just barely cracked open so it doesn't have much engine brake. you can ease into brakes or turning once you are firmly on the new terrain.
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Old September 3rd, 2014, 06:23 PM   #169
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^good ones....
I learned... if you feel uncomfortable in any way, just slow down. Or pull over for a sec. JUST DO IT. No one ever crashed cause they took a breather in a parking lot or rode closer to the speed limit or stopped chasing the faster riders in front of them.
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Old September 4th, 2014, 11:00 PM   #170
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Don't leave your bike behind your best friends dads car, he will forget it is there.
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Old September 5th, 2014, 07:46 AM   #171
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Old September 8th, 2014, 09:50 PM   #172
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Old September 9th, 2014, 05:53 AM   #173
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It's a simple one and something I already knew this before I crashed, but hadn't fully internalized it: Look where you want to go, not where you don't. Target fixation is a b**ch.
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Old September 11th, 2014, 12:56 AM   #174
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-look where you want to go.

-avoid the front brake on dirt or gravel.

-Look as far ahead as possible, and always keep your eyes moving.

-don't brake for small animals on gravel. you can hit the animal and keep going, or you can wreck your bike and yourself, and still manage to hit said fuzzy animal in the process.

-Even the nicest dog will try to kill you if you ride by them on a motorcycle and they aren't leashed/fenced in.

-always keep a light touch on the handlebars.

-Thinking about a crash tends to make one happen.
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Old September 11th, 2014, 08:06 AM   #175
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Old September 12th, 2014, 06:36 AM   #176
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Old September 12th, 2014, 06:48 AM   #177
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I learned that road rash hurts more than you think, and 50 dollars for a pair of compression shorts with padding is worth every cent. Wish I had them on before lol

I learned that nylon melts quickly and hurts to pull out of road rash.



edit: @choneofakind

just saw your post above lol
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Old September 29th, 2014, 11:49 AM   #178
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This is a great question because I think that all too often people crash and just sort of blow it off as something that just "happens." I've had so many conversations with people where they say, "ya, I crashed, no buggy." but when I ask them what happened or what they did wrong they have NO IDEA.

I think it's important to take a good look at each crash, or even almost crash and figure out what you as the rider did to contribute to it happening and then figure out what you can do differently so that it doesn't happen again.

I remember high siding a few times in my early days of racing and not having a CLUE as to why I crashed. It wasn't until I took CSS as a student that I learned that I was chopping the throttle when the rear end was sliding and that was the cause of me going airborne all the time. After riding the slide bike and learning more about how to control rear end slides I was able to prevent them from happening again (most of the time).

I clearly remember the first time I was able to save myself from a high side because of the fact that I knew what to do if the rear end slid. I was at Laguna Seca in my early days of coaching with CSS and I was chasing a really fast student. He had been riding for about 10 mins and his tires were warm where as I had just pulled onto the track, bone cold tires, and took off trying to catch him. on the exit of turn 5 I gave it a bit too much gas and the rear went completely sideways and I remember saying to myself, "don't chop the gas, don't chop the gas!!" and I rolled held it steady and slightly rolled off until the slide subsided and I kept going. I was so excited that I had just SAVED myself from a nasty crash because of my fairly new understanding of what a high side actually was :dance cool:

Anyone else have any stories about utilizing a skill (learned from a previous crash) to prevent another one

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Old September 29th, 2014, 12:01 PM   #179
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I learned to keep my cool, always have a police officer document the accident(unless you are afraid of the good old too fast for conditions ticket)

Asses yourself, for injuries, equipment damage and situation implications.

Also - Get insurance. Get better insurance. and then get even better insurance
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Old September 29th, 2014, 02:49 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misti View Post
Anyone else have any stories about utilizing a skill (learned from a previous crash) to prevent another one

Cheers,
Misti
Hey Misti!
Yep, I've got a few of those! I always pick my crashed apart, knowing it's my fault first before blaming the bike in anyway. I think humbling ourselves rather than immediately blaming the bike or the track or another rider is the best way to learn.
My first track crash was at Little Talledega. I looked TOO far too early through a decreasing radius corner and missed a turning point. I ended up wide and on the gator strips at too high of a speed for my lean angle, and the suspension bottomed out. That one hurt a bit. Since then I was always more careful to get my bike pointed in the direction it needed to be before shifting my gaze to the next turning point.

At Road Atlanta I learned, even if there's a wall coming at you really fast while you're in the grass running off the track, even the smallest amount of front brake at high speed isn't a smart move. I remembered that the next time I rolled off track (hey, that was at Jennings with Alex and Chris!), and I made it unscathed, keeping the rubber side down.
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Old September 29th, 2014, 03:50 PM   #181
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running off into grass really sucks
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Old September 29th, 2014, 05:49 PM   #182
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Especially in a corner with little run-off before running smack into a concrete wall (Corner 7 at Road Atlanta).
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Old September 30th, 2014, 04:01 PM   #183
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Don't ride while you are exhausted.
Get enough sleep the night before a long day or trackday.
Don't put everything off until the day/night before the trackday.
Wear good gear.
When you are wrong, stay wrong. Don't try to immediately get back onto the track while at speed. Slow down, get back on and then speed back up.
Have medical insurance. (I was lucky enough to not have to learn the hard way)
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 11:25 AM   #184
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Hey Misti!
Yep, I've got a few of those! I always pick my crashed apart, knowing it's my fault first before blaming the bike in anyway. I think humbling ourselves rather than immediately blaming the bike or the track or another rider is the best way to learn.
My first track crash was at Little Talledega. I looked TOO far too early through a decreasing radius corner and missed a turning point. I ended up wide and on the gator strips at too high of a speed for my lean angle, and the suspension bottomed out. That one hurt a bit. Since then I was always more careful to get my bike pointed in the direction it needed to be before shifting my gaze to the next turning point.

At Road Atlanta I learned, even if there's a wall coming at you really fast while you're in the grass running off the track, even the smallest amount of front brake at high speed isn't a smart move. I remembered that the next time I rolled off track (hey, that was at Jennings with Alex and Chris!), and I made it unscathed, keeping the rubber side down.
I'm glad you take the initiative to pick your crashes apart and figure out what went wrong!

You make a good point when you say that you looked "too far, too early." This is actually a common mistake and I think it stems from the concept of "look through the turn." I hear people say that all the time and while it is important to "look through the turn." I think it is equally important to mention that you need to look through the turn in stages in order to ensure that you make it to the points that you are aiming for. If you try to look foo far too soon then you can miss your turn in point or you can get lost in the middle of the turn.

What do you think is a better plan of action? Or how do you look through the turn in a way that doesn't leave you missing turn points or getting lost mid corner?
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 11:49 AM   #185
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Asphalt hurts (even with gear)...

And reinforced NOT to take ANYthing for granted when it comes to what people in cars may or may not do...
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 11:59 AM   #186
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Don't let yourself be pressured by others just to try and maintain distance with the group and never trust the cars around you. I trusted a car to merge while I looked away for several seconds, turned out they gave up and came to a stop in front of me.
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 12:06 PM   #187
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 12:10 PM   #188
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Quote:
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Asphalt hurts (even with gear)...
seconded, I have scars through my jacket where there was rubbing (slightly loose reinforced areas due to winter use w/jackets underneath stretching it) from my last street down.

what I learned from that down was to not allow myself to become distracted in a corner where I know there's gravel there and you have to stay on the car lines to avoid it. Loud noises like barking dogs tend to get your attention easily.


My last track down taught me quite a bit more, it taught me that my mentality was wrong (at least until I'm racing and have the skills to be racing) as well as that my body positioning needed work. Was a typical at speed lowside with no run off in the second fastest corner at the track. I feel as though with better body positioning I could be just as hard if not harder on the throttle through there. I'm also not sure if I dragged my peg which lifted the rear slightly or if I lost the rear first but I was definitely leaned over more than I would normally and more than I've been since
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Old October 2nd, 2014, 05:55 PM   #189
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\
You make a good point when you say that you looked "too far, too early." This is actually a common mistake and I think it stems from the concept of "look through the turn." I hear people say that all the time and while it is important to "look through the turn." I think it is equally important to mention that you need to look through the turn in stages in order to ensure that you make it to the points that you are aiming for. If you try to look foo far too soon then you can miss your turn in point or you can get lost in the middle of the turn.

What do you think is a better plan of action? Or how do you look through the turn in a way that doesn't leave you missing turn points or getting lost mid corner?
"Looking as far as possible had always worked for me on the streets, even in tight mountain corners. On an open track with no obstructions, you can often look 2-3 curves ahead, and though keeping your wide-scope vision in check..."Seeing" as far as possible doesn't mean to literally point your nose in the direction and "look" as far as possible. I like how you worded it, do it in stages.
That was my most painful track lesson, that here IS a limit to "look ahead as far as possible".
After making the mistake, I'm able to pick better apex turn in points and stagger my gaze as I move. I look at a spot until I know my bike is pointed there and going in that direction before I look ahead to the next turn-in point.
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Old October 4th, 2014, 08:35 AM   #190
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Old October 4th, 2014, 11:40 AM   #191
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Old October 4th, 2014, 02:15 PM   #192
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Old October 4th, 2014, 05:31 PM   #193
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Well, ain't that just sweet?
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Old October 4th, 2014, 07:16 PM   #194
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150cc Scooters don't lean over in gravel very well..

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Old October 4th, 2014, 08:40 PM   #195
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Old October 6th, 2014, 11:29 AM   #196
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Quote:
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"Looking as far as possible had always worked for me on the streets, even in tight mountain corners. On an open track with no obstructions, you can often look 2-3 curves ahead, and though keeping your wide-scope vision in check..."Seeing" as far as possible doesn't mean to literally point your nose in the direction and "look" as far as possible. I like how you worded it, do it in stages.
That was my most painful track lesson, that here IS a limit to "look ahead as far as possible".
After making the mistake, I'm able to pick better apex turn in points and stagger my gaze as I move. I look at a spot until I know my bike is pointed there and going in that direction before I look ahead to the next turn-in point.
Love the last paragraph. You pick apex points and stagger you gaze as you move. You look at a spot until you KNOW YOUR BIKE IS POINTED THERE and going in that direction before you look to the next point. Perfect.

That is how we teach it at the school and sometimes it may feel a bit choppy at first like you are connecting the dots but as you get more comfortable with your points and with moving your gaze smoothly from point to point it will begin to feel less choppy and more fluid and smooth. This way you don't risk getting lost mid corner or trying to look too far through the turn. You look to where you want to go and when you know you will get there you look further ahead.

This is different from maintaining a wide view which is also very helpful. How is widening your vision in addition to looking at your reference points useful?

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Old October 7th, 2014, 03:13 AM   #197
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Glass top bistro tables explode if you hit them while spinning your tire in the grass... Stupid is as stupid does!
Aaaaaaand make sure there are no water hoses in the grass to help you into said bistro table.
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Old October 7th, 2014, 05:36 PM   #198
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and why were you spinning your tire in the grass?

...
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Old October 7th, 2014, 05:47 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirref View Post
and why were you spinning your tire in the grass?

...
My cousin was actin crazy running around, so I was gonna spin my tire a bit, caught a waterhose an it steered me into the exploding table :/ I coulda possibly drinking, but I didn't leave the yard driving
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Old October 7th, 2014, 05:49 PM   #200
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well that kills my "wheelie through a glass table" idea
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