Ninja 250 Rotella T6 oil analysis

[cuong-nutz]

Just got back lab results today and here it is:



Scenario of my oil change:

I changed the oil after I had gotten home from work so it was still hot. Unfortunately the sample was first catch (as in right as it came out of the drain hole). Not sure how this affects accuracy of results. I think I had some grime on the drain bolt that might have fallen into the sample. It started sprinkling as I was doing the oil change so I noted that in the report. I also noted that I rejetted the bike and it's possible that I could be running in the rich side. Sample was poured into a clean glass jar until the shipping container came in the mail.

I bought the bike brand new, heat cycled and ran the piss out of it for break-in.

There are some variables I need to rule out, so I'm going to shoot the lab an email to get some clarifications as to other possible leads on the high iron and aluminum content. As you may know, MFG recommends use of 10W40 instead of 5W40 which is what T6 is. I'm wondering if the thin cold weight is accelerating wear.

[FrugalNinja250]

How do you order this kit?

[Mountain Dew]

It's not a kit. You take a sample of your oil to an oil diagnostic station. Kinda like a pee test for your bike.

[dubojr1]

Free kits: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php

Coung: Thanks for posting this man. T6 for now has become a suspect on whether or not I want to continue using it. Our break-ins are a bit different as a did heat cycle but I was pretty easy on mine for the first 300-400 miles and then progressively increased the spirited riding over the next 250 miles.

The aluminum count is a bit concerning. I'm trying to imagine what you could have dropped into the oil from the drain-plug that would have this number so high.

One other concern is the silicon count. This indicates poorer filtration conditions (compared to the average) of the air entering the engine. What air filter are you using and what are your maintenance intervals for it?

On a positive note the TBN on the T6 is good. This indicates that the oil is still in good usable condition right? Report says you had 4,200 miles on it but I assume since the aluminum count is so high that the lab is suggesting to reduce the interval to 2k pending further analysis.

I'm really at loss of what to do here. I have ~2,700 miles on my current change and intended on changing again at the 5k interval. I'm now wondering if I want to go ahead and have an analysis done and change it to Amsoil or just run it pending my own sample & oil analysis.... Low mileage motors for these bikes can be had for a few hundred dollars too so I'm not sure how much all the worrying and testing is really worth.

I think I'll order a kit and pending your update, I'll then decide what I want to do.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by Mountain Dew

It's not a kit. You take a sample of your oil to an oil diagnostic station. Kinda like a pee test for your bike.

I googled "oil diagnostic station dallas" and we don't seem to have anything like that around here.

[Nemesis]

Motul engine oil FTMFW!!!

[dubojr1]

After some further reading on the internet mind you... I can't seem to find any other reports that show T6 to be a lesser quality engine oil. I did read too that the Blackstone "average" is not a good source to compare because it based on oil submitted by bike vs. maybe mileage on oil.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

Motul engine oil FTMFW!!!

Proof?

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

I googled "oil diagnostic station dallas" and we don't seem to have anything like that around here.

You have to have a kit to send back to the lab unless you have a lab in your area.

[Klondike1020]

thats really coool !

Now if only I could buy something worth worrying about . hmmmm

[Boom King]

Generally the lab results that people post in various forums for T6 are pretty positive. It's difficult to take results from a single sample from one user and draw a wide-sweeping definitive conclusion about a particular oil; especially from a sample with concerns about possible contamination. You can switch back to 10W40 and send that for lab analysis just to make sure that something else isn't going on with your engine.

[dubojr1]

I fear Coung may in fact have an engine/transmission issue.

[cuong-nutz]

I changed out my stock air filter maybe a month or two ago and have been using Wix oil filters. There's still plenty of additive left in the oil as indicated by the TBN so doing oil changes at 5k shouldn't be a problem. I just got to figure out where all the aluminum is coming from.

Edit: forgot about my viscosity testing.... I called them and they said that it could be excessive pressure which is shearing the oil and thus reducing the viscosity. I don't fully understand it but I'll go with it.

[dubojr1]

I'm using a mix of WIX and K&N oil filters with a K&N air filter. What air filter did you change to?

[cuong-nutz]

I changed to an Uni panel filter. I'm not really worried about all the aluminum found at the moment but what worries me more is that my viscosity degraded which brought it down to a 30 grade oil. I'm going to send another sample in at 3k and see what results I get.

[dubojr1]

I seen the numbers for that but I wasn't clear on how to interpret them. Can you explain?

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by dubojr1

I seen the numbers for that but I wasn't clear on how to interpret them. Can you explain?

I think Bob would explain it better than I would:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/effects-of-shearing/

[sharky nrk]

As little oil as this things takes I may change it at 2k anyways

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

As little oil as this things takes I may change it at 2k anyways

A very good statement there Since T-6 is still a cheap synthetic and oil solution and I could just shorten the oil change interval and still come out on top on oil compared to other motorcycle specific synthetic oils.

Here's a good read for those who want to learn more about oil lubrication properties pertaining to sports bikes:

http://www.sportrider.com/hands_on/h...oil/index.html
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0310_oil/index.html

[LoneRonin]

did you notice any difference in engine noise after switching to T6? My bikes been having a ticking cam chain when I first start it up but goes away when the engine is warm. I think it has something to do with the oil, it has a different viscosity when cold but same when its warm compared to 10W40

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by LoneRonin

did you notice any difference in engine noise after switching to T6? My bikes been having a ticking cam chain when I first start it up but goes away when the engine is warm. I think it has something to do with the oil, it has a different viscosity when cold but same when its warm compared to 10W40

I didn't have any noise issues with the bike with the change. If anything, you may want to switch to a thicker weight moto specific oil and see if there's a change.

[LoneRonin]

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

I didn't have any noise issues with the bike with the change. If anything, you may want to switch to a thicker weight moto specific oil and see if there's a change.

yea..I was running Motul 5100 before, going to switch back to that.

[blackoutt]

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

As little oil as this things takes I may change it at 2k anyways

Shortening change intervals isn't a bad idea. It then comes out to whether amsoil is cheaper in the long run at a longer interval. Don't take my word for it, I run Rotella T (not T6) for max of 2k miles.

[LoD575]

I run amsoil. Switched to synthetic at 1k miles. Was planning on using T6 but my local CarQuest had a special on the Amsoil. I only use Wix filters.

Planning on changing at 5k intervals.

[rusninja]

Well im not quite there but i am excitalily plaining my first oil change at 3k miles and im halfway there? Anyone here ever use motul 300v Is it good and worth it?

[dino74]

Been a fan of Shell's Rotella T6.

About $22 for a gallon at Walmart.

[Jono]

Shell Rotella T6. Duh!

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by dino74

Been a fan of Shell's Rotella T6.

About $22 for a gallon at Walmart.

Originally Posted by Jono

Shell Rotella T6. Duh!

Dis.

I ran Amsoil 10w-40 once and switched to Rotella T6 for both the 250R and ZX6R, can't beat the price when you can get it for ~$20/gallon.

[Alex]

/merged with an interesting Rotella thread

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by rusninja

Well im not quite there but i am excitalily plaining my first oil change at 3k miles and im halfway there? Anyone here ever use motul 300v Is it good and worth it?

Ruslan, yes I'm using it and from my point 300V is more then worth its money.
Shifting is much much better and very smooth and if you search in the web they say it even should give you a lil more power.

[choneofakind]

Fancy oil gives your bike more power?

Only if you consider how much lighter your wallet is. Rus, use whatever the hell oil you want. I use Rotella T6 because it's easy to buy and it seems to last longer for me mileage-wise. ymmv. But traditional cheapo oil that's only $8 a gallon will do just fine as well.

The important part is remembering when you do oil changes, and doing them regularly.

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by Somchai

Ruslan, yes I'm using it and from my point 300V is more then worth its money.
Shifting is much much better and very smooth and if you search in the web they say it even should give you a lil more power.

Sounds more like a placebo effect. Fresh oil from any manufacturer will feel smoother.

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Fancy oil gives your bike more power?

Only if you consider how much lighter your wallet is. Rus, use whatever the hell oil you want. I use Rotella T6 because it's easy to buy and it seems to last longer for me mileage-wise. ymmv. But traditional cheapo oil that's only $8 a gallon will do just fine as well.

The important part is remembering when you do oil changes, and doing them regularly.

My wallet sure felt lighter when an oil change with Amsoil cost 3 times as much as one with T6. The cost effectiveness of T6 also gives me more of a reason to change my oil regularly instead of trying to stretch my miles in between changes.

[choneofakind]

How much does an oil change cost with the Amsoil? I pay about $20 for a gallon of T6, which lasts me 2 oil changes, with a touch leftover. Buy a filter, and it comes out to about $15/oil change. Not bad in my books. I change it every 3000-3500 anyways.

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

How much does an oil change cost with the Amsoil? I pay about $20 for a gallon of T6, which lasts me 2 oil changes, with a touch leftover. Buy a filter, and it comes out to about $15/oil change. Not bad in my books. I change it every 3000-3500 anyways.

It's around $12/quart and I bought it online so I had to pay shipping and it averaged to $15/quart.

EDIT:

Looks like Motul 300V is also a pricey oil, it's up there with Repsol 4T fully synthetic racing oil and Mobil1 4T racing at around $15/quart or ~$50-60/gallon.

[LoneRonin]

No need wasting money on 300v. For a 250 the 5100 is more than enough

[Somchai]

Yes, at least your right the cheaper oil is good enough, sure for driving on the roads in America you don't need racing oil because you have the speed limited for 100 km/h (66 mph). On the race circuit this may be a good idea.
But for Germany that's very different because there's no speed limit and also the setups in engines, ignitions and fuel-systems from speed-limited countries you can not compare to the setups for Germany, but I think that's what you already know.
So forgive me when I talk with my german experiences in mind

[choneofakind]

Synthetic oil will resist break down at extreme heat, and do better at cold starts, but that does not mean that it is necessary to pay a ridiculous amount for some fancy race blend and claim that it makes more horsepower. The high temp and cold starting properties of synthetic are why I use synthetic oil (T6), but I'm not going to pay obscene amounts for Motul when there's a significantly less expensive option that has been proven with many riders to work just fine.

background on synthetic oil:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil

edited because it's not worth arguing

[02337]

I'm a believer in t6, I see that you tested this on a new bike? With the piston rings embedding and grooving into the walls I wonder if that caused the aluminum count? I doubt the block is aluminum but I'm wondering if the rings are aluminum?
If this was oil done on the bike for the first time I'd be hesitant to draw conclusions from this just due to the fact that so much is happening during the break in period and I know with cars running break in oil after a rebuild or regular dino oil is preferred for setting the rings.

I've done multiple tests with my car, I do a lot of work on vw's/audis and when I switched to rotella t6 in my personal car I noticed an oil psi gain of 5 at idle (10psi to 15) and at 3k it went from 40 psi to 50ish.

The oil also smells different from most oils has a sweet smell(especially if it burn) very thing I've read is great on it in the European car world even trying to find bad reviews aren't too readily available.

And for the price vs motul I save quote a bit as the car takes 5qts.

My $.02

[alex.s]

wow. such a high aluminum content? maybe the 5 weight cold viscosity is making all the oil drain from the head and causing extra wearing on the head?

note, the cylinder walls are iron, the rings are steel and the head is aluminum.

[flynjay]

Originally Posted by alex.s

wow. such a high aluminum content? maybe the 5 weight cold viscosity is making all the oil drain from the head and causing extra wearing on the head?

note, the cylinder walls are iron, the rings are steel and the head is aluminum.

Considering the oil would drain from the head when the bike is hot so at 40 weight and the fact that the cold viscosity will never be less than the viscosity at hot temperatures, I don't see this as being a high probability.