Reason 5334 you shouldn't ride when tired.

[Monkeytofu]

Was driving home today and I hadn't slept that well today and I felt a bit off. Was almost home when I was going too fast and a car in front of me stepped on the brakes very quickly.

I was able to slow down my bike (rear tire wobbled, looks like my rear brake line was loose and made my tire a bit slippery or another strike by the stock tires ) and only ended up love tapping/ bumping into the car in front of me with no damage to either of us. So thankfully no police/ insurance had to get involved.

Going to take a nap on campus before I commute home from now on if I ever have another day like this.

[Jiggles]

More front brake, less rear brake

[Coolbpf]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

More front brake, less rear brake

Can't tell if trolling, or giving good advice

[choneofakind]

That's legitimate good advice. If the back wheel didn't come off the ground, the front brake could have been used more. The rear brake is going to lock up in that situation, so the front brake is your friend.

Tofu, glad you and the bike are alright. This could have ended worse. Good lesson at a relatively low price.

[Jiggles]

More rear brake, less front brake.

How about now?

[Monkeytofu]

I applied both brakes to their limits and the rear tire (if it didn't slip because of fluids) more than I should.

I think the solution here is not to speed, give myself room, and not to ride tired.

[Jiggles]

Oh so you applied the front brake 100% and the rear brake 0%?

I must have misinterpreted your original post

[Monkeytofu]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Oh so you applied the front brake 100% and the rear brake 0%?

I must have misinterpreted your original post

I guess I didn't mention it in my first post, but I used both brakes.

[Jiggles]

Panic stop = Front brake only

[Old Lemon]

i havent used my rear brake since i laid er down

[Jiggles]

Fun fact, if you had used only the rear brake you wouldn't have laid it down

[Bassman]

Tired is a big no no. My first BIG lay down was in the canyons at 2am after a party. Sand around a sharp corner and BOOM ankle smeared all over the pavement. sux. I'm very you had the experience without the pain!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Monkeytofu

........Was almost home when I was going too fast and a car in front of me stepped on the brakes very quickly..........

Most accidents happen close to home (leaving and arriving), just because we tend to drop our guard on familiar roads.

I have fallen to sleep three times while driving, none riding.
Usually a 10-minute nap is enough to recharge batteries before a 1-hour trip.

You are very lucky, Monkeytofu.
Practice emergency braking on empty parking lots as frequently as you can.
20~30 mph is fast enough for those practices, the important thing to learn is the modulation of both brakes (or only front if you wish).

[bdavison]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Panic stop = Front brake only

=Chin taking a nap into pavement.

BOTH BRAKES, EVERYTIME. Its been proven again and again that both brakes applied is the fastest way to stop, and the safest.

[Jiggles]

Uh no

[Malicious Logic]

Subscribing just for the impeding braking discussion. Glad you were ok OP.

[choneofakind]

Ugh, this argument has been made here many times people.

Sure, the MSF people tell you to use both brakes. It's been shown that both brakes make you stop quicker. But don't forget, the difference was something like 4 [citation needed, someone please find the numbers for me] feet, which is negligible in comparison to how far you travel while decelerating.

One thing you should consider: when the front brake is being used to its full potential, the rear wheel is either bouncing off the ground, or chirping because it has so little weight on it that the engine is applying enough braking power to almost lock it up. Any rear brake at this point is going to massively lock up the rear wheel, making the chances of going down higher.

The other thing you need to consider is that the concentration it takes to get one wheel to the threshold of skidding is very high. To do both means that the average rider is not doing either wheel as well as they could.

This means that even though applying both brakes perfectly would stop you faster in theory, in a real-world situation where adrenaline and reaction times are huge factors, it is better in many cases to focus on one thing and do it well rather than trying to balance both brakes at once. That is why I use my rear brake for parking lots and smooth stops, but not for serious braking.

In this case, while Jiggles is being a little less eloquent in his delivery than he could be, he logic is still correct. Use the rear if you want to. Use the front if you want to. Heck, use both if you're feeling wild. But the fewer things you have to focus on during a true full-on panic stop, the better your results will be.

[Panda]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Ugh, this argument has been made here many times people.

Sure, the MSF people tell you to use both brakes. It's been shown that both brakes make you stop quicker. But don't forget, the difference was something like 4 [citation needed, someone please find the numbers for me] feet, which is negligible in comparison to how far you travel while decelerating.

One thing you should consider: when the front brake is being used to its full potential, the rear wheel is either bouncing off the ground, or chirping because it has so little weight on it that the engine is applying enough braking power to almost lock it up. Any rear brake at this point is going to massively lock up the rear wheel, making the chances of going down higher.

The other thing you need to consider is that the concentration it takes to get one wheel to the threshold of skidding is very high. To do both means that the average rider is not doing either wheel as well as they could.

This means that even though applying both brakes perfectly would stop you faster in theory, in a real-world situation where adrenaline and reaction times are huge factors, it is better in many cases to focus on one thing and do it well rather than trying to balance both brakes at once. That is why I use my rear brake for parking lots and smooth stops, but not for serious braking.

In this case, while Jiggles is being a little less eloquent in his delivery than he could be, he logic is still correct. Use the rear if you want to. Use the front if you want to. Heck, use both if you're feeling wild. But the fewer things you have to focus on during a true full-on panic stop, the better your results will be.

+1

Some pedantic observations:

- Both brakes don't stop you faster in theory. It stops you faster period.

- The difference between using front and back and just front is negligible but missing the car by 1 inch is as good as missing the car by 10 feet.

I think the issues with these types of conversations are the people want to give a one size fits all solution. It may be best to give people all the facts, they can practice if they want, and then when/if the situation arises let the circumstances dictate the best course of action. (Front brake only, front and back, fred flintstone no brakes all feet.=)

[Felipe the Ant]

Locking up the rear wheel also takes away gyroscopic stability, not really something you want to risk losing while you're shitting yourself and trying to brake

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by rPanda

Both brakes don't stop you faster in theory. It stops you faster period.

...yeah, until your back wheel is almost off the ground and chirping from the engine braking as it is. At that point, you can use the back brake, but you'll lock the back wheel. Then you're dealing with the coefficient of kinetic friction between the tire and ground, which is always less than the coefficient of static friction between the tire and ground, no matter what surface, temp, road condition, etc. The back brake has so little effect on braking distances at that point that it's not really worth it when you consider how much concentration it takes to modulate 2 brake levers with that much accuracy.

[CC Cowboy]

NO brakes, ride around the idiot in front of you.

[Felipe the Ant]

brakes are for stopping, motorcycles are for going. quit being a pussy. front brake doesn't mean **** when the wheel is in the air

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by rPanda

.......and then when/if the situation arises let the circumstances dictate the best course of action.......

During a situation that really demands an emergency braking, the circumstances can dictate whatever is best, but there will be no ear there to listen to them.

Why not training for front brake only, applied in the most effective way,....that will always work for a panic stop.

If the stop is not that critical, so you have time and nerve to listen to the circumstances, add some rear brake and make the stop less safe but faster.

I fully support Jiggles' and Choneofakind's posts, the more dramatic the stop the unsafer touching the rear brake is.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by rPanda

- Both brakes don't stop you faster in theory. It stops you faster period.

- The difference between using front and back and just front is negligible but missing the car by 1 inch is as good as missing the car by 10 feet.

Except this isn't as universal as you make it out to be. Countless magazine tests of supersport bikes have the test rider getting the shortest possible stop with front brake only. And sportbike riders specifically trained for how hard they can use the front brake, end up with shorter stopping distances afterwards when using just that one rather than both, according to the real-world experience of the trainers at the California Superbike School.

It's not that "rear brake = bad". It's that if you don't maximize your abilities and understand the capabilities of how hard the front can and should be used, nothing a rider can do with the rear brake will ever let the bike stop as shortly as possible.

This has been hashed, rehashed, unhashed, rehashed again for fun, and finally just hashed, in the rear-brake threads linked from the Riding Skills sticky at the top of that forum. Give them a read, and pipe up there; at least people can follow all of the different viewpoints in one place.

[lgk]

never ride impaired...
not only will your reaction time be worse you'll over compensate.

i think you actually locked up the rear brake, the wobbling is the tire losing and regaining traction.

[IdRatherDrum]

Glad to hear that no damage was taken to either of you. Consider yourself lucky!