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Old September 5th, 2014, 02:09 PM   #1
melfice
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Question questions about sh*tty starting

So I shimmed my carbs a few months ago. Size M3, only two washers per carb. Shortly after I installed a Two Bros slip on canister. Ever since then I've noticed a large consumption of gas (which doesn't bother me...too much) and a really rough start up (which bothers me a lot). I have to push the button and hold it two maybe three times just to get her purring. Every now and then I get a wonderful backfire noise as well, which scares the bejesus outta me.

My questions are: should I add an extra washer, or drop one washer from each carb? Will that fix the problem? Should I do something else to fix the problem, if there even is one?

Or am I talking about things I know nothing about?
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Old September 5th, 2014, 02:12 PM   #2
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Let me add!!!

I've attempted starting with choke open and choke closed, having it open seems to not make the bike turn on at all, having it closed makes it tough to start as well as having it halfway.
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Old September 5th, 2014, 02:46 PM   #3
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You have an excessive fueling issue. Did you messing with the idle mixture screws? Turn screws in clockwise until you feel it bottom out and back out 2.5 turns. Did you take out the snorkel? How is your air filter? Try starting the bike with the air filter door open.

M3 might be too big and it's catching the inside of slide and sticking. Guessing that to be honest.
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Old September 5th, 2014, 03:05 PM   #4
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I don't even know where the idle screws are at lol. So I'm pretty positive I didn't mess with those. And the snorkel is still in its little home on the airbox. My UNI air filter just got cleaned about 200 miles ago during most recent oil change. And there aren't any obstructions hiding in the air box.

I read the how-to for shimming and the guy used M4 and said it was actually to big and he went down to M3, so I started at M3 which is the perfect size. Let me go try to turn out on with your suggestion, I'll report back in a few.
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Old September 5th, 2014, 03:27 PM   #5
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OK, so I tried it three times with a few minutes of cool down time in between each start. And yeah... It's still a rough start
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Old September 5th, 2014, 05:05 PM   #6
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So the only thing you messed was just adding the shims/washers under the needles? Was the bike sitting for a while without being ridden? Fuel may have gone bad. Make sure you're using regular gas.

Once the bike is started, how does the bike idle? Is it hesitating? What is the idle speed once the bike is warmed up? OEM recommends 1350 rpms but I find 1500 rpms to be a sweet spot.

When you wack the throttle, does it hesitate and then go? Exhaust smell full of unburned gas?

Could try running the bike hard. Maybe that'll clear it's throat.

Are you the original owner of the bike? If not, did you see if the idle mixture screws have been tampered with? If it's not, perhaps removing a shim would help. Not all bikes run lean from the dealership.
Did need to pull the choke to start the bike before the mod?
How many miles do you have on the bike? over 7500? Valve adjustment been performed?
How do the spark plugs look?
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Old September 5th, 2014, 05:27 PM   #7
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Only thing I did was add washers and install slip on muffler. Bike never sits for more than 4 days max without me going for a joy ride :-). Before I did the washer thing, I emptied out the tank and I only use regular every fill up.

Once the bike is on the issue starts low around 1000 then levels out at 1500. when I first give the throttle I twist it does hesitate then go, that is usually only once per day in the morning though. I do get a gas smell, but it usually comes from the tank from what I can tell..

I usually Rev high and keep it in each gear as long as I can before shifting, so running hard is a daily thing lol. Before this, I could usually have the choke off on hot days and it wouldn't be a problem starting, and on cold days I'd have it either full open or half and it was start up fine.

I'm the 2nd owner and I know that the first owner did nothing to the bike at all, he left it stock and it's currently at 2843 miles. Nothing has been done to the valves and plugs e brand new NGK cr8 as of last week.
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Old September 5th, 2014, 07:17 PM   #8
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Did you oil the air filter after you cleaned it?

Check to see if the caps are off of the idle mixture screws on the bottom of the carb. If so, set them to 2 1/2 turns out for starters.

Have the carbs been synced lately?

The carbs need to be synced and the idle mixture screws adjusted properly in order to idle and ride properly.
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Old September 5th, 2014, 08:55 PM   #9
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Tackle the problem by going for the easy way out first (add air). Pull the airbox snorkel if you haven't already to try to alleviate the issue. If it continues, you probably have to lean out your idle mixture screws as chone described. Then take a washer off if all that fails.
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Old September 6th, 2014, 07:02 AM   #10
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The filter was cleaned and oiled with the recharge kit I bought from UNI.

Would the carbs need syncing after only 28xx miles on the bike?

I will attempt the snorkel delete.

I know the mixture screws are still factory spec, should i still reset the screws? (would the idle have an effect of the bike taking so long to start up?)
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Old September 6th, 2014, 08:46 AM   #11
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I'm guessing you may have over oiled the filter. Pull it out and test it
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Old September 6th, 2014, 05:18 PM   #12
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So I dabbed out all the excess oil I had in the filter lol. While I was down there I decided to just go for it and open the carbs. And to my surprise the needle in the left one was bent... Not a whole lot, but it was very noticeable. I removed one of my washers (now I'm down to one washer in each) from the needles, sprayed some carb cleaner in there, because it can't hurt, and put it all back together.

After hitting the starter over and over and over again waiting for the fuel to deliver, it turned on. I let it run for about two minutes turned it off. I let it cool while I put my fairings and seat and everything back together. Then started it again and first try! It's alive!!

I'm thinking it might just be luck. So I'm letting it sit overnight and reporting back in the morning.
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Old September 7th, 2014, 07:15 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melfice View Post
The filter was cleaned and oiled with the recharge kit I bought from UNI.

Would the carbs need syncing after only 28xx miles on the bike?

I will attempt the snorkel delete.

I know the mixture screws are still factory spec, should i still reset the screws? (would the idle have an effect of the bike taking so long to start up?)
As already noted - chances are there was too much oil on the filter and it was restricting air flow.

Most likely the carbs are synced if they have not been fiddled with, but it's a basic maintenance item that needs to be done regularly - especially if you are trying to resolve a running problem you believe is related to the carbs.

Adjust the idle mixture screws. Things change that require adjustments to the idle mixture - temperature, fuel type, and other adjustments to the carb or engine.

Set them at 2 1/2 turns out initially, and adjust the idle to 1300 when hot using the idle speed screw. Ride it a while. Then determine if you feel it could go one way of the other (leaner = in, richer = out). Make adjustments 1/4 turn at a time, then fine-tune with 1/8 turn. As the temps drop you will need to go slightly richer.

Another way to go about it is to adjust them for the highest idle speed (must be fully warm), then go slightly richer (out) about 1/8 to 1/4 turn. Then reset the idle speed to 1300.

Don't be afraid to make adjustments. The factory setting are in no way "perfect". They are usually lean, and are just basic settings that don't take into account any of the variables.

I would leave the snorkel in unless there's a problem with it. It's one more variable right now. Get it running right as it is, then consider removing it.
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Old September 7th, 2014, 09:51 AM   #14
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So I pulled out of the garage and turned my bike on aaaaand, It started on the first try and very easily! I filled up the tank, turned it back on with ease again. I'm pretty excited about it. This all occurring around 7am, I tried it again just a few minutes ago and same results!

But I'm not going to think that it's finally fixed forever, I'll have to keep trying it and see if it will start acting up again. For now, good news though.
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