Cali model emissions stuff..

[inbox526]

So I took off the fairings of my 250 for the first time today in order to install the shogun frame sliders (sorry guys, no DIY) and lo and behold i find all this stuff in the way that never showed up in pictures or instructions...



followed by kkim's lil drawing



So the question now is this... what exactly does all of that stuff do? That black box, the little black bottle right by the radiator hose... and is there any way to remove it? I remember kkim did a DIY for removing the kleen air system... is this in any way related to that whole set-up?

[Banzai]

Yup, that's the stuff. It filters gasoline vapors to prevent them from venting to the air, and some other crap I never paid attention to. Supposed to help keep LA smog from gettng any worse (not like it helps).

Search for the DIY on the removal and you're off to the races. If you're going to keep it installed there is plenty of room to move all of that stuff and still install the frame sliders.

[headshrink]

LOL yeah, I don't see how this thing actually keeps gas vapors from venting to the air - just step into my garage, you'll smell it!

[VeX]

I think I posted a picture or two of removing the Cali emissions stuff somewhere? If you can't find it let me know I'll pop them up on here. It's really simple and the only real trick is on the gas tank side. You leave the front hose be, plug the RED dot vent and vent the blue dot one. The front hose isn't a vent, but an overflow, and if you throw a little inline PCV valve and filter on the blue dot line you'll never smell gas fumes. It will allow air to enter the tank (to refill the area from the fuel that has gone into the fuel bowls of the carburetors), and there is no need for air/fumes to leave.

The only other thing you have to worry about is the Kleen air lines, but it's best to just remove that as well

[i916it]

remember to keep it...
not sure if it affects the smog check we might have in a few years.

(i don't even have a CA model)

[headshrink]

Yeah, I made that mistahe with my old accord..... ended up just having to donate it rather than fix it up for smog.

[voodoomaster]

Originally Posted by VeX

I think I posted a picture or two of removing the Cali emissions stuff somewhere? If you can't find it let me know I'll pop them up on here. It's really simple and the only real trick is on the gas tank side. You leave the front hose be, plug the RED dot vent and vent the blue dot one. The front hose isn't a vent, but an overflow, and if you throw a little inline PCV valve and filter on the blue dot line you'll never smell gas fumes. It will allow air to enter the tank (to refill the area from the fuel that has gone into the fuel bowls of the carburetors), and there is no need for air/fumes to leave.

The only other thing you have to worry about is the Kleen air lines, but it's best to just remove that as well

Vex,

What "kleen air lines" are you talking about? How do you install this PVC and filter? What kind of filter are you talking about?

[VeX]

There is what I'm talking about. The PCV valve is a simple inline PCV valve that you can pick up from any parts store. It's purpose is to make sure air can go one way (so fumes and liquid gasoline don't find their way through). Then a simple inline filter helps keep dirt and dust from getting pulled into the tank.

As for the Kleen air:

Here is everything removed in the emissions removal. Circled in red are where the emissions lines hook into the Kleen Air system. In fact everything on the right side of the picture is the kleen air system (basically to allow air to be pulled into the exhaust). Kkim did a DIY on removing the kleen air system. It's really simple though as you block the line coming out of the valve cover and then plug where the line connects into the airbox. That's it!

[voodoomaster]

I see. I don't understand how the build-up in the take gets released? As the tank gas heats up, the fumes expand quite a bit. Did you put a different gas cap on it??

[VeX]

The build-up isn't a problem with these. The gas cap still vents if the pressure builds (I drilled mine as it was doing it on hot days and squeeking). Other then that I've had 0 problems with vapor locking or excessive tank pressure.

[voodoomaster]

Originally Posted by VeX

The build-up isn't a problem with these. The gas cap still vents if the pressure builds (I drilled mine as it was doing it on hot days and squeeking). Other then that I've had 0 problems with vapor locking or excessive tank pressure.

The pressure build-up actually is a problem with these, here is Hell anyway. In San Diego i would agree that the outside heat issue is not a real concern. However, at temps > than 100 degrees, full Tucson sun, the gas fume expansion is very substantial. I have watched the fume release from the disconnected smog canister line, and it is so heavy that liquid gasoline forms at the bottom of the rubber tube and drips onto the concrete. When you say you drilled out the cap, you mean you drilled out on the inside gallery in the cap, but not an external hole into the top of cap, correct? The 49 state model must have a hole somewhere in the top of the gas cap to permit equalization. Right now I have the rubber line that normally connects to the output of the carbon canister, that routes over to the air filter, disconnected from the air filter and vented to the air via a standard lawn mower gas line filter. This simple mod appears to have temporarily fixed my starting problem. The extreme fume expansion generated from the gas tank, through the carbon can to the carb intake has been disabled. Strange, it makes me think that the extra vaporized gasoline mix that was venting and being stored in the air filter intake box was over-richening the initial gas/air change that was waiting to be sucked into the pistons at initial start-up (after sitting in that heat all day long). Thus the engine appeared to be overly rich and would not easily kick over until 10-15 seconds of cranking. This sounds possible, but the jury is still deciding. I have some more data to collect, but that should be easy since the temps here in Hell will be over the 100 degree mark for quite some time....

I like that PVC and filter set-up that you installed, so I will probably copy you design if you don't mind... I want to be able to store this thing in the garage without having a safety hazard on my hands. Crap, what next?

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by i916it

remember to keep it...
not sure if it affects the smog check we might have in a few years.

(i don't even have a CA model)

Are you saying that there is some motorcycle emissions testing proposed for the future? I haven't heard about it.

[Alex]

There was some talk about it earlier this year. The bill that was proposed didn't make it, so no worries as of right now, but it's certainly something that could come up for discussion again in the future.

Here's one news story that discusses it.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by Alex

There was some talk about it earlier this year. The bill that was proposed didn't make it, so no worries as of right now, but it's certainly something that could come up for discussion again in the future.

Here's one news story that discusses it.

Thanks for the info, Alex!

[ninja250]

OK so I'm left with one open end when I remove both the kleen air and CA emissions stuff.

Do I plug this T coming from the carb to the ca emissions lines?
If so I can pretty much just remove it and run the vacuum line from the carb to the tank right? Or should I leave that there?

Edit:
Found the answer to my own question. Sorry.
I just run the line from the carb there to the tank vacuum port.
Looks like if I leave the T-fitting there and just cap it off, I can use it later for carb sync.
Then steal one of the other T-fittings from the emissions stuff I removed for the other sync port.

[abhijitz]

That is a nice setup with the PCV inline valve & filter for the Vent line on tank "blue dot". Where can i buy this inline valve and filter. And that black tube is just regular hose, right?

Originally Posted by VeX

There is what I'm talking about. The PCV valve is a simple inline PCV valve that you can pick up from any parts store. It's purpose is to make sure air can go one way (so fumes and liquid gasoline don't find their way through). Then a simple inline filter helps keep dirt and dust from getting pulled into the tank.

[headshrink]

Any auto parts store. Just get a cheapo generic in-line fuel filter. You REALLY don't need the PCV valve. Vex was just being fancy. You can reuse the hose from the Cal. Emissions junk. If you must add a PCV and need a small length, but don't want to cut your original tube, you can bring a sample into your auto parts store, or even hardware store. It's best to stick with fuel line.

[abhijitz]

Thanks ! But, as per the picture, Vex has both the in line fuel filter then connected with a hose then a PCV inline valve at the end. what did you do with the other end of the in line fuel filter, just leave it as is?

Originally Posted by headshrink

Any auto parts store. Just get a cheapo generic in-line fuel filter. You REALLY don't need the PCV valve. Vex was just being fancy. You can reuse the hose from the Cal. Emissions junk. If you must add a PCV and need a small length, but don't want to cut your original tube, you can bring a sample into your auto parts store, or even hardware store. It's best to stick with fuel line.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by abhijitz

Thanks ! But, as per the picture, Vex has both the in line fuel filter then connected with a hose then a PCV inline valve at the end. what did you do with the other end of the in line fuel filter, just leave it as is?

Yes, I got you now... You can leave the other end of the filter open. I ended up actually adding a length of tube on the open end, but the only reason was to help control how the tube sat in there. I could have zip-tied it too.

[Wicked808]

I might of missed it, do you need to put the PCV and inline filter?

[Gorilla25]

from what i read. looks like all you need is the filter. but a the PVC is pretty cheap anyways, so i would put it on...

[Wicked808]

Originally Posted by Gorilla25

from what i read. looks like all you need is the filter. but a the PVC is pretty cheap anyways, so i would put it on...

Which pcv and filter? I went napa and had plenty different kind

[Gorilla25]

@Wicked808: any cheap fuel filter that fits the hose and and cheap PVC that fits the hose. looking at the pics, thats how i would do it.

@trixter: wicked808 is in hawaii so it dont matter. we dont have emissions testing. heck, i even yanked the emissions out of my car(at that time) when i did a motor swap a few years ago.

[Gorilla25]

haha..i see..yep, im tired. been awake since 3am and tired as heck..fully misread your intentions....

[Wicked808]

Ok guys......i just finished removing the snorkel, did the shimming(2 washers ea.), and last took out that damn emissions crap. Put everything back together, my girl started right up! 1 question remains, can i plug both the red and the blue nipples that are coming out of the gas tank?

[broilmebk]

Originally Posted by VeX

There is what I'm talking about. The PCV valve is a simple inline PCV valve that you can pick up from any parts store. It's purpose is to make sure air can go one way (so fumes and liquid gasoline don't find their way through). Then a simple inline filter helps keep dirt and dust from getting pulled into the tank.

As for the Kleen air:

Here is everything removed in the emissions removal. Circled in red are where the emissions lines hook into the Kleen Air system. In fact everything on the right side of the picture is the kleen air system (basically to allow air to be pulled into the exhaust). Kkim did a DIY on removing the kleen air system. It's really simple though as you block the line coming out of the valve cover and then plug where the line connects into the airbox. That's it!

Sorry to revive such an old thread, but I'm wondering how nobody else has had any issues with this setup for the CA emissions model. I did exactly what Vex has in that setup, and my bike ran like crap. I switched to capping the blue vent while opening the red and now it's running like it used to. Not sure what's going on here..

[Ralgha]

Sorry for necroposting, but where do you get a PCV valve to fit these lines? I've called a bunch of auto parts stores and none have any that fit.