Front brake bleeding problem

Baron · September 7th, 2014, 10:58 AM

Every bloody time I do something that I haven't done before, I screw up somewhere. This time it's with the front brakes. I bled my rear brakes yesterday and they are fine. However the front ones not so much.
So quick summary, I was bleeding my front brakes using the one man bleeding system/more or less just a jar.
I was talking on the phone the same time so I didn't see when the front reservoir emptied itself. Needless to say that WHEN I did notice it I put in more fluid but after that point, it started to go downhill. I got all old fluid out of my system and from the looks of it all the air too however, no matter how much I pump and bleed the brakes, they won't catch at all.
If I continue to bleed the brakes, that's just pumping out clear brake fluid. Pumping the brakes isn't helping at this time because it's being rather stubborn and I could seemingly do it for days without it actually working......

Link to original page on YouTube.

snot · September 7th, 2014, 11:13 AM

Tap the lines and caliper, you still might have air in the system. Also check the caliper to make sure it is functioning correctly as well as the cable.

csmith12 · September 7th, 2014, 11:18 AM

Put the clear tube into a 20oz pop bottle (lower than the caliper), pump until the fluid is above the line in the bottle, then you can start bleeding. Fill the res and keep pumping while keeping the res full until there is no air bubbles. If needed, zip tie the lever overnight and repeat in the AM. Your brakes will be SOLID!

Baron · September 7th, 2014, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snot

Tap the lines and caliper, you still might have air in the system. Also check the caliper to make sure it is functioning correctly as well as the cable.

Thanks . I'll try that in a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmith12

Put the clear tube into a 20oz pop bottle (lower than the caliper), pump until the fluid is above the line in the bottle, then you can start bleeding. Fill the res and keep pumping while keeping the res full until there is no air bubbles. If needed, zip tie the lever overnight and repeat in the AM. Your brakes will be SOLID!

I am a bit unclear on the procedure,
1. I get a soda bottle
2. Place it on the ground[lower than the caliper]
Here's where I am unclear. Do I keep the nut open and then pump the fluid in it???

snot · September 7th, 2014, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron

Thanks . I'll try that in a bit.

I am a bit unclear on the procedure,
1. I get a soda bottle
2. Place it on the ground[lower than the caliper]
Here's where I am unclear. Do I keep the screw around the nut open and then pump the fluid in it???

place the bottle lower that the caliper, open nut, pump...

Baron · September 7th, 2014, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snot

place the bottle lower that the caliper, open nut, pump...

cool. I update it in a bit.

Brother Michigan · September 7th, 2014, 11:51 AM

The zip-tie trick is a winner. There's likely just some air stuck up near the master cylinder (or something) somewhere that's being stubborn; leaving the brake lever pulled at least overnight should give it time to migrate up into the reservoir.

csmith12 · September 7th, 2014, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snot

place the bottle lower that the caliper, open nut, pump...

Spot on! Pump until fluid looks clear and no bubbles. I had a tough one once, took me a whole bottle of new fluid to get it sorted.

snot · September 7th, 2014, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csmith12

Spot on! Pump until fluid looks clear and no bubbles. I had a tough one once, took me a whole bottle of new fluid to get it sorted.

This happened to me on the rear. I used my shoe lace (was still on my shoe) to hold the tube into the little Tupperware container (no bottle). I used 1/2 bottle to get all the bubbles out.

Asspire · September 7th, 2014, 12:01 PM

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=147436

see bottom of post on bleeding, bikes are easy to bleed. just do it step by step, if you still have problems let me know

csmith12 · September 7th, 2014, 12:03 PM

^^^^

Baron · September 7th, 2014, 12:54 PM

Thank you everyone for helping out.
I just finished zip tying the bastard. I'll check in a bit. Also can anyone tell me which screws are used in the front brake reservoir? I swear these things are made of wax.

Brother Michigan · September 7th, 2014, 01:16 PM

Just curious, are you using the screwdriver included in the bike toolkit?

Baron · September 7th, 2014, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Michigan

Just curious, are you using the screwdriver included in the bike toolkit?

Unfortunately it didn't come with a tool kit so I got myself a 200pc toolkit some time ago, found the correct screwdriver and was using that one.

Soujyu · September 7th, 2014, 01:23 PM

From my recollection of doing this a couple of years ago, it took myself and a friend about 20-30 minutes of handbleeding the front brake before it finally would work.

The rear brake is easy to do and takes no time because the line is mostly horizontal and bubbles are easily bled out.

Brother Michigan · September 7th, 2014, 08:09 PM

This post finally motivated me to get out and put on my Apex lines I got over a year ago. I've run half a 12 Oz. bottle of fluid through the rear and I'm STILL getting some small bubbles. Hopefully the front isn't that much worse.

M42 · September 7th, 2014, 08:12 PM

Get some speed bleeders, never struggle again.

Brother Michigan · September 7th, 2014, 08:51 PM

I'm not having any trouble with backflow or anything, so I'm not sure speed bleeders would change much. I do wish I had the $40 to spend on a mityvac, though.

M42 · September 7th, 2014, 09:36 PM

Backflow's not the only thing bleeders help with, they make the whole job so much faster. Literally like 10 minutes for a full flush. I HAVE a mityvac and I stopped using it the moment I installed the speedbleeders, because the former is much more finnicky than the latter. Also more expensive. ($40 vs $20)

corksil · September 7th, 2014, 11:29 PM

Once you get this sorted, please post back with your procedure.

Seems I've done this a million times, but someone always comes out of left field with some little tiny tidbit of thought that makes me think "Why didn't I come up with that?"

Hopefully you've figured it out by now.

LittleRedNinjette · September 8th, 2014, 09:01 AM

We had a hell of a time on the front lines when putting the steel lines on the 300.

We used a vacuum bleeder kit on the bike and that seemed to helped alot.

Baron · September 8th, 2014, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Michigan

This post finally motivated me to get out and put on my Apex lines I got over a year ago. I've run half a 12 Oz. bottle of fluid through the rear and I'm STILL getting some small bubbles. Hopefully the front isn't that much worse.

The rear was so simple to do for me too. The front however.........

Quote:

Originally Posted by M42

Backflow's not the only thing bleeders help with, they make the whole job so much faster. Literally like 10 minutes for a full flush. I HAVE a mityvac and I stopped using it the moment I installed the speedbleeders, because the former is much more finnicky than the latter. Also more expensive. ($40 vs $20)

I was wondering about those, however I didn't which ones to go for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by corksil

Once you get this sorted, please post back with your procedure.

Seems I've done this a million times, but someone always comes out of left field with some little tiny tidbit of thought that makes me think "Why didn't I come up with that?"

Hopefully you've figured it out by now.

Okay, update update update. Sorry for going MIA for some time.
So I did what was posted above, I did go through nearly half a bottle of brake fluid but I was able to get it to an okay state. However I had some chores to handle and work in the morning so I wasn't able to leave it overnight.
I did a quick bleed when I got back from work today before heading out to Motorcycle Monday and it's more or less satisfactory now. It still feels a wee bit soft at times and pumping the brake a few times does make it firm so I'm guessing there is still some air in it somewhere. I'll probably try it next weekend.
However the zip tie procedure works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleRedNinjette

We had a hell of a time on the front lines when putting the steel lines on the 300.

We used a vacuum bleeder kit on the bike and that seemed to helped alot.

I went the miser's way. Wish I hadn't.

M42 · September 8th, 2014, 07:11 PM

The speed bleeder website has a sizing chart. I think newgens use a SB8125L, but check yourself to make sure.

Baron · September 8th, 2014, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M42

The speed bleeder website has a sizing chart. I think newgens use a SB8125L, but check yourself to make sure.

Thanks. It's out of stock on amazon.ca and amazon.com doesn't ship it to where I live. FML

Also does anyone know which screws does the reservoir take. I nearly stripped one of them. I found out it's 8-32 1/2 inch but one of the person told me that it was a metric screw since the ones I looked at in Canadian tire didn't have the same number of threads.

M42 · September 8th, 2014, 07:48 PM

Try ebay, too.

Brother Michigan · September 8th, 2014, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron

Thanks. It's out of stock on amazon.ca and amazon.com doesn't ship it to where I live. FML

Also does anyone know which screws does the reservoir take. I nearly stripped one of them. I found out it's 8-32 1/2 inch but one of the person told me that it was a metric screw since the ones I looked at in Canadian tire didn't have the same number of threads.

You might also look at auto parts stores. One just up the street from me evidently carries them.

As for the screws, take one to a hardware store. They should have something there you can try the screw in until you find the right size/thread pitch.

Asspire · September 8th, 2014, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron

Thanks. It's out of stock on amazon.ca and amazon.com doesn't ship it to where I live. FML

Also does anyone know which screws does the reservoir take. I nearly stripped one of them. I found out it's 8-32 1/2 inch but one of the person told me that it was a metric screw since the ones I looked at in Canadian tire didn't have the same number of threads.

brafasco, or fastenal, some times home depot

Baron · September 8th, 2014, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Michigan

You might also look at auto parts stores. One just up the street from me evidently carries them.

As for the screws, take one to a hardware store. They should have something there you can try the screw in until you find the right size/thread pitch.

I'll give it a shot. I'll keep everyone posted on how things progress.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asspire

brafasco, or fastenal, some times home depot

Thanks I'll be checking out both tomorrow, with any luck I should be able to find a match.

Brother Michigan · September 8th, 2014, 08:41 PM

One more thing I thought about while out riding just now: exactly how are you bleeding the front? Are you squeezing the lever and building up pressure before opening the bleeder or are you opening the bleeder and then squeezing? Both will technically work, but the former is theoretically better. By squeezing the lever and building pressure in the line before opening the bleeder, you are compressing any air trapped in the line, reducing its buoyancy. This should mean less regression of air back up the line between pulls.

Probably not enough to make a huge difference, but it's something.

September 7th, 2014, 11:13 AM	#2
snot sammich maker Name: snot Location: West Ohio - in the kitchen Join Date: Feb 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2013 white 300, 09 KLX 250 SF, 09 thunder blue 250(traded) Posts: A lot. MOTM - Apr '15	Tap the lines and caliper, you still might have air in the system. Also check the caliper to make sure it is functioning correctly as well as the cable.
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

September 7th, 2014, 11:18 AM	#3
csmith12 The Corner Whisperer Name: Chris (aka Reactor) Location: Northern KY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much. MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13	Put the clear tube into a 20oz pop bottle (lower than the caliper), pump until the fluid is above the line in the bottle, then you can start bleeding. Fill the res and keep pumping while keeping the res full until there is no air bubbles. If needed, zip tie the lever overnight and repeat in the AM. Your brakes will be SOLID! __________________________________________________ Goal: Shake A Million Hands \| Look through the corners \| Track Day Prep \| Closest track? \| The Mid-Ohio School

September 7th, 2014, 11:51 AM	#7
Brother Michigan ninjette.org sage Name: Aaron Location: Winder, GA Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2013 Ninja 300 Posts: 718	The zip-tie trick is a winner. There's likely just some air stuck up near the master cylinder (or something) somewhere that's being stubborn; leaving the brake lever pulled at least overnight should give it time to migrate up into the reservoir.
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

September 7th, 2014, 12:01 PM	#10
Asspire Fix It Till Ya Break It Name: Asspyre Location: T.Dot Join Date: Oct 2011 Motorcycle(s): 08 250RRrrrr Posts: 623	https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=147436 see bottom of post on bleeding, bikes are easy to bleed. just do it step by step, if you still have problems let me know
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

September 7th, 2014, 12:03 PM	#11
csmith12 The Corner Whisperer Name: Chris (aka Reactor) Location: Northern KY Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much. MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13	^^^^ __________________________________________________ Goal: Shake A Million Hands \| Look through the corners \| Track Day Prep \| Closest track? \| The Mid-Ohio School

September 7th, 2014, 12:54 PM	#12
Baron Urban Legend Name: Baron Location: Brampton, ON Join Date: Apr 2014 Motorcycle(s): 09 Ninja 250R SE - Circe Posts: 542	Thank you everyone for helping out. I just finished zip tying the bastard. I'll check in a bit. Also can anyone tell me which screws are used in the front brake reservoir? I swear these things are made of wax. __________________________________________________ "Life is like riding - *You can either tear the fastlane in half or stay in the slipstream trying to play catch up*." -Baron

September 7th, 2014, 01:16 PM	#13
Brother Michigan ninjette.org sage Name: Aaron Location: Winder, GA Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2013 Ninja 300 Posts: 718	Just curious, are you using the screwdriver included in the bike toolkit?

September 7th, 2014, 01:23 PM	#15
Soujyu ninjette.org sage Name: W Location: Austin, TX Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250R (sold), 2012 Tuono V4R Posts: 512	From my recollection of doing this a couple of years ago, it took myself and a friend about 20-30 minutes of handbleeding the front brake before it finally would work. The rear brake is easy to do and takes no time because the line is mostly horizontal and bubbles are easily bled out. __________________________________________________ 2010 Kawasaki Ninja 250R - "Aria" (sold) 2012 Aprilia Tuono V4R - "Perrine" Proof that Harleys and Ninjettes are friendly with each other

September 7th, 2014, 08:09 PM	#16
Brother Michigan ninjette.org sage Name: Aaron Location: Winder, GA Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2013 Ninja 300 Posts: 718	This post finally motivated me to get out and put on my Apex lines I got over a year ago. I've run half a 12 Oz. bottle of fluid through the rear and I'm STILL getting some small bubbles. Hopefully the front isn't that much worse.

September 7th, 2014, 08:12 PM	#17
M42 Wrench wench Name: The Stigette Location: DC/MD/VA Join Date: Jun 2014 Motorcycle(s): TWO HUNDRED FORTY EIGHT CUBIC CENTIMETERS (R.I.P.), SIX HUNDRED FORTY FIVE CUBIC CENTIMETERS Posts: 415	Get some speed bleeders, never struggle again.

September 7th, 2014, 08:51 PM	#18
Brother Michigan ninjette.org sage Name: Aaron Location: Winder, GA Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2013 Ninja 300 Posts: 718	I'm not having any trouble with backflow or anything, so I'm not sure speed bleeders would change much. I do wish I had the $40 to spend on a mityvac, though.

September 7th, 2014, 09:36 PM	#19
M42 Wrench wench Name: The Stigette Location: DC/MD/VA Join Date: Jun 2014 Motorcycle(s): TWO HUNDRED FORTY EIGHT CUBIC CENTIMETERS (R.I.P.), SIX HUNDRED FORTY FIVE CUBIC CENTIMETERS Posts: 415	Backflow's not the only thing bleeders help with, they make the whole job so much faster. Literally like 10 minutes for a full flush. I HAVE a mityvac and I stopped using it the moment I installed the speedbleeders, because the former is much more finnicky than the latter. Also more expensive. ($40 vs $20)

September 7th, 2014, 11:29 PM	#20
corksil ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: TC Location: Hawaii Join Date: Sep 2013 Motorcycle(s): A lot. Posts: A lot.	Once you get this sorted, please post back with your procedure. Seems I've done this a million times, but someone always comes out of left field with some little tiny tidbit of thought that makes me think "Why didn't I come up with that?" Hopefully you've figured it out by now. __________________________________________________ Just batshit crazy. All his posts are endless diatribes. Some are actually entertaining but mostly batshit crazy.

September 8th, 2014, 09:01 AM	#21
LittleRedNinjette Certified Troublemaker Name: Teri Location: Hamilton, NJ Join Date: Oct 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250r "Pikachu", 2017 Ninja 650 "Epona" Posts: A lot. MOTM - Aug '13, Aug '14, Feb '17	We had a hell of a time on the front lines when putting the steel lines on the 300. We used a vacuum bleeder kit on the bike and that seemed to helped alot. __________________________________________________ Raven's Rejuvenation A bruise is a lesson... and each lesson makes us better...

September 8th, 2014, 07:11 PM	#23
M42 Wrench wench Name: The Stigette Location: DC/MD/VA Join Date: Jun 2014 Motorcycle(s): TWO HUNDRED FORTY EIGHT CUBIC CENTIMETERS (R.I.P.), SIX HUNDRED FORTY FIVE CUBIC CENTIMETERS Posts: 415	The speed bleeder website has a sizing chart. I think newgens use a SB8125L, but check yourself to make sure.

September 8th, 2014, 07:48 PM	#25
M42 Wrench wench Name: The Stigette Location: DC/MD/VA Join Date: Jun 2014 Motorcycle(s): TWO HUNDRED FORTY EIGHT CUBIC CENTIMETERS (R.I.P.), SIX HUNDRED FORTY FIVE CUBIC CENTIMETERS Posts: 415	Try ebay, too.

September 8th, 2014, 08:41 PM	#29
Brother Michigan ninjette.org sage Name: Aaron Location: Winder, GA Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2013 Ninja 300 Posts: 718	One more thing I thought about while out riding just now: exactly how are you bleeding the front? Are you squeezing the lever and building up pressure before opening the bleeder or are you opening the bleeder and then squeezing? Both will technically work, but the former is theoretically better. By squeezing the lever and building pressure in the line before opening the bleeder, you are compressing any air trapped in the line, reducing its buoyancy. This should mean less regression of air back up the line between pulls. Probably not enough to make a huge difference, but it's something.

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