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Old September 17th, 2021, 07:19 AM   #1
Chicagobob
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Help with carb (?) issues

My 2006 ninja, which has stock engine, exhaust and intake, recently began running poorly. It starts well, but is slow to operate off choke, will not idle, and the revs hang after acceleration. Midrange and full throttle performance are good. Fuel delivery is good. Valves are adjusted and plugs are recent.

I disassembled and cleaned the carbs (setting the idle screws at 2-1/2 turns out), and added fresh fuel, and it ran well for a few days, then settled into its old habits again.

Any ideas? The carbs were not really dirty when I took them apart, but I soaked and blew out the jets and passages. I re-installed all the parts correctly. I didn't find any intake air leaks (but maybe I'm not looking in all the right places).

Any suggestions based on experience would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Old September 17th, 2021, 07:44 AM   #2
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Hi Bob... we were just talking about you and your yellow Ninja, and I mentioned that it was the inspiration for my red Ninja.

Since you said the valves are adjusted, my first guess is the carburetors and not completely clean. It's easy to miss a small, well-hidden passage, and the little idle passages are the first to show trouble.
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Old September 17th, 2021, 09:09 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Chicagobob View Post
Any ideas? The carbs were not really dirty when I took them apart, but I soaked and blew out the jets and passages. I re-installed all the parts correctly.
They need more work than that:

- carbs needs to be disassembled down to every last nut, bolt and individual component

- everything soaked in ultrasonic cleaner

- secret hidden passages need to be mechanically scrubbed with brushes using strong solvents and PEA-based cleaners

- jets and emulsion-tube bleed holes needs to be flossed with matching gauge wire

- micro soda-blasted

As compared to before, your cleaning did improve performance, but deeper cleaning more thorough restoration job is needed.
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Old September 17th, 2021, 05:53 PM   #4
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Well, that’s what I did, except for the “micro soda blasting,” which seems like overkill and wouldn’t affect the passages anyhow.

My problem is that I can’t figure out what part of the carbs is incorrect, dirty or damaged. Just disassembling and cleaning them over and over again doesn’t seem like effective troubleshooting.

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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
They need more work than that:

- carbs needs to be disassembled down to every last nut, bolt and individual component

- everything soaked in ultrasonic cleaner

- secret hidden passages need to be mechanically scrubbed with brushes using strong solvents and PEA-based cleaners

- jets and emulsion-tube bleed holes needs to be flossed with matching gauge wire

- micro soda-blasted

As compared to before, your cleaning did improve performance, but deeper cleaning more thorough restoration job is needed.
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Old September 17th, 2021, 06:26 PM   #5
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Maybe Ducatiman will have some advice.
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Old September 17th, 2021, 07:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagobob View Post
Well, that’s what I did, except for the “micro soda blasting,” which seems like overkill and wouldn’t affect the passages anyhow.

My problem is that I can’t figure out what part of the carbs is incorrect, dirty or damaged. Just disassembling and cleaning them over and over again doesn’t seem like effective troubleshooting.
“Cleaning” can mean different things to different people. Last house-cleaning outfit I used didn’t think that “cleaning kitchen” meant restoring top of fridge to showroom condition or pulling out all appliances and cabinets to scrub floors underneath. You’ll want to disassemble carbs down to every last nut, bolt and individual component.



Here’s link to passages that needs to be scrubbed from end-to-end:
http://n4mwd.blogspot.com/2013/10/se...-passages.html

1. Scrub out all hidden secret fuel-circuits beyond jets with brushes. Amazon - nylon brushes. I like to use 75/25% acetone mix with PEA-based fuel-system cleaner such as Chevron Techron, Red Line SI-1, etc.

2. Soak in ultrasonic cleaner for hours using polar solvent (PineSol, Totally Awesome, vinegar, etc.) Be aware that Simple Green dissolves aluminium, so avoid it. Amazon - 4L Ultrasonic cleaner

3. Scrub again with brushes. Pay particular attention to holes where fuel-circuits exit into carb-venturi (neon green dots in photos). Poke those out with soft copper wire. Remove deposits but be careful not to remove any metal as size of these holes are critical to fuel-metering

4. Be sure to completely disassemble emulsion tube and poke out all lateral bleed holes with copper wire. Same with all jets and bleed holes in carb venturi. Soaking and scrubbing won’t clean these holes and you’ll find wire pushes out dried plastic petrol plugs similar to grains of sand.


5. micro soda-blast all circuits and bleed holes to clean out debris loosened and left by scrubbing. Use finest soda available AircraftSpruce - mini soda blaster

6. replace all rubber parts: float-valves, O-rings, seals and even slide diaphragms as needed.

7. adjust float-levels

8. sync carbs with manometers. While old-style analogue gauges work, I prefer modern digital versions. carb-sync gauges

Once you’ve done this, carbs will be factory-fresh clean and bike will run like brand-new.
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Old September 17th, 2021, 08:02 PM   #7
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Or send them to Ducatiman and get on with your life.
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Old September 18th, 2021, 08:36 AM   #8
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Or send them to Ducatiman and get on with your life.
Exactly! Many expert mechanics have had to remove their carbs 4-5x to do ever deeper cleaning until bike ran right. It looks me over 40-hrs one time to do proper carb restoration until bike ran like new. Now I just send them to ducatiman 1st time around.
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Old September 18th, 2021, 12:49 PM   #9
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exactly the case ! I'm a retired motorcycle mechanic and I did a quick cleaning of the carbs on my Ninja and I've found it wasn't clean enough... these carbs are tricky, they don't like to come clean with carb cleaner sprey and they demand a complete dismantle to get to all the passageways...
.... so the carbs defeeted me at first go around, and I've been into bikes all my life.... their not as easy to get clean as they were 20 years ago !!!!!
it will take you all day to do it right ! plan on it ! make sure every passage way is clear if you miss one, that is the one that will make the bike not work right, side passage ways inside of holes are the worst offenders from what I understand, pay extra close attention to them ( where the emulsifier tube goes)
.... take your time and do it right !
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Last futzed with by Bob KellyIII; September 18th, 2021 at 12:52 PM. Reason: Additional information
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Old September 18th, 2021, 12:54 PM   #10
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Thanks for the info. Very helpful diagrams. I'll probably go with Ducatiman. Life is short.

Edit: Ducatiman came through. The whole process took just a few days, including shipping. He found several clogged passages (don't ask me how), cleaned and perfectly assembled the carb set, and now the bike is running like it should.

Last futzed with by Chicagobob; September 25th, 2021 at 04:46 PM.
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Old October 14th, 2021, 11:05 PM   #11
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we need to all gather together and get ducatiman a gift
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Old October 15th, 2021, 02:35 AM   #12
Bob KellyIII
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I couldn't agree more ! He's the man !
with the amount he charges for his supprime carb work he isn't getting rich !
I think we need a Raffle or something , or donate into a fund and send him a nice fat check...... I'll donate !
Bob.........
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Old October 15th, 2021, 05:44 AM   #13
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Take it from me just fixed carbs on a 01 similar problems remove pilot jets and make sure there clean and the hole in the end is poked threw also use a wire and poke out hidden passage ways by the flap of carb behind the air idle adjustment needle
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