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Old August 18th, 2017, 01:36 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by gitter View Post
hey guys, its been a few days, finally had time to pull the harness and split it open.

Found that the black (signal wire for the tach) and the brown/black (im assuming ground for tach, gas gauge, and temp light) were worn through and touching, close to where the black wire splits into two wires ( to go to tach and left coil, respectively)

I dont want to jinx it but I'm pretty sure that was my problem. At this point do i just wrap the bare spots with tape and then wrap the harness back up?
I think others mis-read your word "split" as break in wire, not as just Y-split sending signal in two directions.

If the inner copper conductor is intact, then yes, wrapping it up will be fine. If it's frayed and broken, then you'll want to solder back together. In which case, might as well cut it all the way through so you can slide shrink-wrap tubing in before soldering. Then you'll have more durable repair as tape will eventually fall off when adhesive dries up.

Is this short on gauge-side of connectors? Or between ECU and gauge-connector?

You'll want to test black-wire for signal with short repaired to determine if ECU is damaged.
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Old August 18th, 2017, 01:40 PM   #42
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Yes I was talking about where the wire splits into two. The wire still looks intact just worn through the insulation. And it's in the main harness not the gauge cluster harness
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Old August 18th, 2017, 01:48 PM   #43
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in a prefect work yes. but will wrapping it in electrical tape suffice?
Of course it will fix the problem. I understood that the problem is worn-through insulation, I'm just not a fan of fixing worn insulation with electrical tape. It might last 100 years though, so do it that way if you prefer.
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Old August 18th, 2017, 03:32 PM   #44
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I like repair methods like splicing in new sections of wire, using solder and heat-shrink tubing on the joints.
A man after my own heart TJ. That's the method I plan to use installing my new outboard brake lights. I will not use "crimp" connections, I don't trust them.

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Old August 18th, 2017, 03:49 PM   #45
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Got the wiring harness back in. Still no signal on black wire. At this point is it safe to say that the ecu is fried?
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Old August 18th, 2017, 04:00 PM   #46
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I wouldn't assume that until I verified that all the signals into the controller are correct, while measuring the two coil outputs. Or borrow another one and swap them temporarily.
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Old August 18th, 2017, 09:11 PM   #47
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is there any way to test the ecu without finding another one to try out?
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Old August 18th, 2017, 09:36 PM   #48
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is there any way to test the ecu without finding another one to try out?
If an "ECU" is the same thing as an "IC Igniter" there's an (Excedrin headache #999) extensive testing procedure on page 15-21 of the Kawasaki Service Manual.

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Old August 19th, 2017, 01:17 AM   #49
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Quote:
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I like repair methods like splicing in new sections of wire, using solder and heat-shrink tubing on the joints.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram Jet View Post
A man after my own heart TJ. That's the method I plan to use installing my new outboard brake lights. I will not use "crimp" connections, I don't trust them.

Bill
death to all crimp splice connectors!!! The only things I crimp are terminal ends with the proper crimp tool and then I'll solder on top of that. This keeps moisture from creeping up inside between wire strands and causing black green wire disease.
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Old August 19th, 2017, 01:38 AM   #50
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Confirm your black-wire repair. Test that by measuring resistance between black-wire spade connector to chassis ground. Compare that to your earlier reading and what do you get?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gitter View Post
Got the wiring harness back in. Still no signal on black wire. At this point is it safe to say that the ecu is fried?
Quote:
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is there any way to test the ecu without finding another one to try out?
Yep, no output on ECU-ignitor black wire to left coil pretty much confirms it's dead. Now WHY it's dead can be a mystery that's endlessly debatable. But there's no arguing that it's dead on left side. I think the short on black wire wiped out the driver-transistor.

Do one more test to confirm the left channel's dead.

- disconnect black wire spade from coil
- bridge green-wire from right coil to left coil empty terminal with test-leads/alligator clips
- perform 'noid light test on green coil, does it flash?
- perform 'noir light test on black coil, does it flash?
- how does bike run?

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; August 20th, 2017 at 12:44 PM.
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Old August 20th, 2017, 11:16 AM   #51
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Like Jac said early in the thread,are you sure it's not ignition related? Any time I hear there's no spark, I look there first because of what I've personally experienced.

Edit: After reading post #50 looks like Jac is on to something. I would get a working ECU on ebay and try it see what happens. Someone once said it's pretty rare these things actually stop working and become completely F'd up. If a working ECU doesn't solve the issue maybe it's time for a closer look at that cylinder. Compression test done? Would anyone advise one?
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Old August 20th, 2017, 12:18 PM   #52
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Just checked spade connector (at coil) to chassis ground got .3
Checked ecu plug black wire to chassis ground got 3.7 still. Does this mean the black wire is grounding Somewhere it shouldn't?
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Old August 20th, 2017, 12:50 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by gitter View Post
Just checked spade connector (at coil) to chassis ground got .3
Checked ecu plug black wire to chassis ground got 3.7 still. Does this mean the black wire is grounding Somewhere it shouldn't?
That's strange because both those readings should be same since it's same same black wire you're testing. Resistance to ground should not matter whichever end you measure from. And reading should be much higher to infinite resistance.

Do same measurement with green wire. Spade connector @ coil and ECU should be unplugged for these tests.
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Old August 20th, 2017, 01:12 PM   #54
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Ok just double checked black spade connector at coil to chassis ground and had to switch from 200 to 2M on the multimeter and got .923, I am thoroughly confused.
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Old August 20th, 2017, 01:59 PM   #55
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Ok just double checked black spade connector at coil to chassis ground and had to switch from 200 to 2M on the multimeter and got .923, I am thoroughly confused.
Let's test just the black wire with both ends disconnected.

- unplug ECU connector
- unplug gauges connector
- unplug both black & green coil spade connectors
- measure resistance between green-spade connector to ground (test-control since we know this side works)
- measure resistance between black-spade connector to ground

it may be possible there's another short somewhere.
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Old August 20th, 2017, 03:19 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacRyann View Post
Let's test just the black wire with both ends disconnected.

- unplug ECU connector
- unplug gauges connector
- unplug both black & green coil spade connectors
- measure resistance between green-spade connector to ground (test-control since we know this side works)
- measure resistance between black-spade connector to ground

it may be possible there's another short somewhere.
I unplugged the ecu, the black spade connector, the green spade connector and the gauge cluster. with the key off i tried to get a reading from the chassis ground / green spade connector and couldn't get a reading no matter what i set the multimeter at
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Old August 20th, 2017, 03:53 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by gitter View Post
I unplugged the ecu, the black spade connector, the green spade connector and the gauge cluster. with the key off i tried to get a reading from the chassis ground / green spade connector and couldn't get a reading no matter what i set the multimeter at
That's correct. Should be open-circuit with infinite resistance. So we still have a short somewhere on the black left-side circuit.

Does short change to open-circuit when you disconnect gauge connector?
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Old August 20th, 2017, 06:05 PM   #58
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That's correct. Should be open-circuit with infinite resistance. So we still have a short somewhere on the black left-side circuit.

Does short change to open-circuit when you disconnect gauge connector?
Ok here's where I'm at:
gauge cluster, green and black wires and ecu unplugged. Tested both green and black wires, couldnt get a reading.

Same thing with gauge cluster plugged in.

Plugged green and black wires back in, plugged gauge cluster back in, took reading from black wire (at ecu plug) and chassis ground. reading 4.1

is there a short somewhere in the main wiring harness still? or should i start looking at other wiring?
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Old August 20th, 2017, 06:45 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by gitter View Post
Ok here's where I'm at:
gauge cluster, green and black wires and ecu unplugged. Tested both green and black wires, couldnt get a reading.

Same thing with gauge cluster plugged in.
This is good! Shows there's no short on the harness.

Quote:
Plugged green and black wires back in, plugged gauge cluster back in, took reading from black wire (at ecu plug) and chassis ground. reading 4.1
the only change here is you plugged spades back into coils? Gauges previously plugged in and ECU disconnected? If so, we may have shorted left coil. Try this:

- power off
- disconnect black & green spades from coils
- measure resistance between coil terminals of right coil
- measure resistance between coil terminals of left coil
- measure resistance between free terminal of right coil and chassis ground
- measure resistance between free terminal of left coil and chassis ground
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Old August 20th, 2017, 09:29 PM   #60
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- measure resistance between coil terminals of right coil
2.5
- measure resistance between coil terminals of left coil
2.7
- measure resistance between free terminal of right coil and chassis ground
3.5
- measure resistance between free terminal of left coil and chassis ground
3.5

And just for kicks I measured from free terminal to free terminal and got 5.0
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Old August 21st, 2017, 07:22 AM   #61
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What are you using for chassis ground?
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Old August 21st, 2017, 08:07 AM   #62
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Where the harness (black/yellow) bolts to the frame up on the right side of the bike, under the tank, next to the thermostat.
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Old August 21st, 2017, 03:21 PM   #63
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Hmm, not good. I was hoping to find just black left-coil shorted to ground. Now we have both!

- power OFF
- ECU and gauges unplugged
- Unplug BOTH spade-connectors from both coils.
- measure resistance between each red spade-connector on wire to chassis-ground
- measure resistance between each power-terminal (lower?) on coil to chassis ground.
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Old August 21st, 2017, 09:14 PM   #64
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- measure resistance between each red spade-connector on wire to chassis-ground

Left - 3.8
Right- 2.9

- measure resistance between each power-terminal (lower?) on coil to chassis ground

Left - no reading
Right - no reading
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 01:17 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gitter View Post
- measure resistance between each red spade-connector on wire to chassis-ground

Left - 3.8
Right- 2.9
Wow.... how are we not blowing fuses? The power-wires coming through ignition & kill-switch is shorted to ground! I think you'll need to do the same for red-wires as black and trace their entire runs to make sure they aren't contacting a ground-wire or chassis somewhere.

Quote:
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- measure resistance between each power-terminal (lower?) on coil to chassis ground

Left - no reading
Right - no reading
Coils are OK.
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 10:02 PM   #66
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ok so at this point, do I pull the harness and go through it again? Or do i start with the handlebar switch side?
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 10:44 PM   #67
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I think that's a good start. Trace red power cable from handlebar switch and see if it had bare shorted spots like the black wire. We want zero connection between red wire & ground.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 11:13 AM   #68
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So out of curiosity I unplugged the harness from the right handle bar switch and I couldn't get a resistance reading on the red coil wires anymore. Would this indicate that the short is in the smaller harness on the handlebar switch side?
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Old August 25th, 2017, 11:34 AM   #69
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If you mean the meter read infinity (no change from disconnected leads) it's not indicating a short, it's indication an open (broken wire, etc.)
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Old August 25th, 2017, 03:24 PM   #70
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I realize I'm jumping around here, but I reread the entire thread and realized one thing i never tried was running a test lead from the right coil to the left.

I tried it and the bike would crank but wouldnt start. When i took the test lead off the bike would crank and start but only on the right cylinder. I dunno if this had any bearing on anything but I figured I would mention it.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 08:20 PM   #71
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I realize I'm jumping around here, but I reread the entire thread and realized one thing i never tried was running a test lead from the right coil to the left.

I tried it and the bike would crank but wouldnt start. When i took the test lead off the bike would crank and start but only on the right cylinder. I dunno if this had any bearing on anything but I figured I would mention it.
No longer relevant test due to finding short on power side as well.
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Old August 25th, 2017, 08:22 PM   #72
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So out of curiosity I unplugged the harness from the right handle bar switch and I couldn't get a resistance reading on the red coil wires anymore. Would this indicate that the short is in the smaller harness on the handlebar switch side?
Do you mean a low-resistance reading between chassis-ground and red coil-wires when plugged in? And open-circuit/no reading when bar-switch unplugged? Then yes, somehow, the power-wires from switch is connected to chassis-ground. You may need to disassemble switch-housing to inspect. I don't think there's any ground-wires in there, so perhaps wires inside are shorted to handlebar itself.
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Old August 27th, 2017, 01:16 PM   #73
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Haven't had much time to work on it this weekend, but I got the switches and harness taken apart, didnt find any damaged wires, so I put everything back together.

Started unwrapping the main harness (still in the bike) starting at the plug for the right handlebar switches. Out of curiosity i measured resistance on the two power wires again (after starting to unwrap the harness) and resistance had dropped down to 1.8 / 1.9. If resistance is dropping the more i unwrap the harness, does that mean I'm headed in the right direction?
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Old August 27th, 2017, 07:34 PM   #74
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Resistance between two power lines should be minimal with switch ON. Open-circuit/no reading switch off.

You actually want to be measuring between each power-line and chassis-ground. There actually shouldn't be any connection to ground
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Old August 27th, 2017, 08:38 PM   #75
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I don't know if this is relevant here, but meters and leads have a resistance. To get rid of it, you need to touch the meter leads together and get the reading, then subtract that from any readings you take on the motorcycle. So if the reading you get when touching the leads together is 0.4 ohms and you read 1.2 ohms somewhere on the bike, the actual reading is 1.2-0.4=0.8 ohms.
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Old August 27th, 2017, 08:47 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacRyann View Post
Resistance between two power lines should be minimal with switch ON. Open-circuit/no reading switch off.

You actually want to be measuring between each power-line and chassis-ground. There actually shouldn't be any connection to ground
Sorry I didn't specify, I was measuring from the red wire to the chassis ground.
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Old August 27th, 2017, 09:32 PM   #77
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I don't know if this is relevant here, but meters and leads have a resistance. To get rid of it, you need to touch the meter leads together and get the reading, then subtract that from any readings you take on the motorcycle. So if the reading you get when touching the leads together is 0.4 ohms and you read 1.2 ohms somewhere on the bike, the actual reading is 1.2-0.4=0.8 ohms.

Dang, I didn't know that. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for making measuring electrical values even more complicated. Seriously, thanks, I was not aware of that.

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Old August 28th, 2017, 06:44 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram Jet View Post
Dang, I didn't know that. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for making measuring electrical values even more complicated. Seriously, thanks, I was not aware of that.
It comes up only when reading low resistances, but when checking wiring the resistances are usually low ones.
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Old August 28th, 2017, 07:54 AM   #79
Ram Jet
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Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
It comes up only when reading low resistances, but when checking wiring the resistances are usually low ones.
I thought about my last post after posting it. For years I was using Micronta (Radio Shack) analog VOM. That poor old thing couldn't read 5.2468 OHMs. The closest it could come would be 5.0 OHMs and you may be able to guesstimate 5.5 OHMs. My new DVOM could measure the resistance of your hair follicle. On my old VOM the internal resistance of the meter was a moot point.

Still good to know now that I've entered the new millennium.

Bill
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Old August 28th, 2017, 08:23 AM   #80
DannoXYZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gitter View Post
Started unwrapping the main harness (still in the bike) starting at the plug for the right handlebar switches. Out of curiosity i measured resistance on the two power wires again (after starting to unwrap the harness) and resistance had dropped down to 1.8 / 1.9. If resistance is dropping the more i unwrap the harness, does that mean I'm headed in the right direction?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gitter View Post
Sorry I didn't specify, I was measuring from the red wire to the chassis ground.
hmm, if both wires from switch has connection to ground, that sounds like TWO shorts. They go in opposite directions, one goes to on/off switch and battery. The other goes to coils and ECU.

Resistance lowering may mean that the movements you're doing is making the short worse.
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