2010 only running on one cylinder

[gitter]

So the lower the resistance, the worse the short?

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by gitter

So the lower the resistance, the worse the short?

Yes, that means short has better connection. We want no connection, infinitely-high resistance. There should not be any connection between power-lines directly to chassis-ground.

[Triple Jim]

I'm not sure if it was covered above, but be aware that any resistance readings taken with the battery disconnected, of a positive 12v wire to ground will be a low value if the ignition switch is on, since the dash bulbs and tail light are in the circuit at that time.

[gitter]

Thanks, I've been taking readings with the battery still connected and the key in the off position

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

I'm not sure if it was covered above, but be aware that any resistance readings taken with the battery disconnected, of a positive 12v wire to ground will be a low value if the ignition switch is on, since the dash bulbs and tail light are in the circuit at that time.

Good point. It's a good thing to remember, I wouldn't have thought about that.

Thanks again,

Bill

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by gitter

Thanks, I've been taking readings with the battery still connected and the key in the off position

Yeah, key OFF which removes +12v power connection to handlebar-switch.
Any continuity between handlebar-switch wires to chassis-ground is short and unwanted.

You can also trace from coil red-wires forward. At each junction-connector, unplug and test red-wire to ground on each side. Then you can narrow down search to side that has short.

[gitter]

I had a little time to do some poking around after work tonight.
First off tested my multimeter, touched the leads together and got .5

All testing was done with key in the off position.

handlebar switches unplugged (at green connector)
handlebar red wire to chassis ground - no reading
red wire (green plug - main harness side) to ground - no reading
left coil red wire to ground - no reading
right coil wire to ground - no reading

plugged green connector back in
handlebar red wire( on handlebar side of connector) to ground - 1.8
left coil red to ground 1.8
right coil red to ground 1.8

so for some reason it seems like theres only a short when the switchgear on the right handlebar is plugged in to the main harness.

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by gitter

I had a little time to do some poking around after work tonight.
First off tested my multimeter, touched the leads together and got .5

All testing was done with key in the off position.

handlebar switches unplugged (at green connector)
handlebar red wire to chassis ground - no reading
red wire (green plug - main harness side) to ground - no reading
left coil red wire to ground - no reading
right coil wire to ground - no reading

plugged green connector back in
handlebar red wire( on handlebar side of connector) to ground - 1.8
left coil red to ground 1.8
right coil red to ground 1.8

so for some reason it seems like theres only a short when the switchgear on the right handlebar is plugged in to the main harness.

Good job on testing! The first series of tests shows main harness is OK. Second set of tests confirm ealier and definitely points to short in handlebar wiring. Start at where it plugs into harness and inspect every inch of every wire up to bar switch and ignition switch.

[gitter]

I'm going to preface this question with the fact that electrical / wiring work is my automotive weakness, but how does this indicate that the short is in the main harness? it only seemed like there was a short when the handlebar switch was plugged into the main harness.

[DannoXYZ]

Sorry, i got things reversed. Short appears to be in handlebar wiring.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by gitter

I'm going to preface this question with the fact that electrical / wiring work is my automotive weakness, but how does this indicate that the short is in the main harness? it only seemed like there was a short when the handlebar switch was plugged into the main harness.

Right now there's a bunch of handlebar switches for sale on eBay - like about $20.00 - $25.00. Give yourself a break already. I'm not sure if you suspect trouble with the left or right switch assembly, I just checked right hand.

Bill

[gitter]

I'm debating picking up a spare set of switches just incase. Where could there possibly be a short in the switches? I pulled everything apart, didnt see any bare wire anywhere. could there be an actual short in the switches? if so, is that reparable? or should i just snag a new (or used) set?

Also, my whole power wire having a short issue, is this separate from my original issue of not getting signal on that black wire from the cdi box to the left coil? or is it possible that they're connected somehow?

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by gitter

I'm debating picking up a spare set of switches just incase. Where could there possibly be a short in the switches? I pulled everything apart, didnt see any bare wire anywhere. could there be an actual short in the switches? if so, is that reparable? or should i just snag a new (or used) set?

Also, my whole power wire having a short issue, is this separate from my original issue of not getting signal on that black wire from the cdi box to the left coil? or is it possible that they're connected somehow?

I have a Honda FT500 single. I spent weeks tracing down a problem to the starter switch. When you engage the starter the headlight is temporarily disconnected. Much like the Ninja. Since I rigged my headlight switch to turn off manually I simply bypassed the O.E.M. switch and installed a push button switch from Radio Shack for the starter motor. The O.E.M. switch was a cheap piece of junk and could not be repaired. I would have gone the eBay route but the FT500 was only made for two years and parts are as scarce as hens teeth.

Bill

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by gitter

I'm debating picking up a spare set of switches just incase. Where could there possibly be a short in the switches? I pulled everything apart, didnt see any bare wire anywhere. could there be an actual short in the switches? if so, is that reparable? or should i just snag a new (or used) set?

Also, my whole power wire having a short issue, is this separate from my original issue of not getting signal on that black wire from the cdi box to the left coil? or is it possible that they're connected somehow?

Most likely related. Short would draw too much current and fry coil driver transistor in the ignitor.

You can test by unplugging from green harness connector and measuring resistance from each handlebar plug terminal to chassis ground. Some of the contacts and springs in switch may be dislodged.

[gitter]

not sure if I'm jumping the gun here, but it sounds like i should be hunting down switchgear for the right side handlebar and a new cdi....along with the short thats been eluding me for weeks now....

[DannoXYZ]

Yeah, that would be simplest. Make sure to test for shorts after installing new switches. Since the actual cause of shorts haven't been found, it may still be lurking. Which would damage new ignitor. So you'!l want to confirm no shorts before swapping new one in.

[gitter]

Did a little more poking around. I found that the only way the red power wires are grounding out is if the green plug to the right handlebar is plugged in and the switch is turned into the on position.

If its in the off position, no more short. Which makes me think that the switch is still working (thoughts?) Also it looks like the kill switch is just completing a circuit, like its supposed to, which makes me think the short is somewhere back in the main harness somewhere.

I'm not sure if this means anything but if i unbolt the chassis ground, and then check resistance between the red power wires that go to the coils and the spot on the frame where the ground usually is, (with the green plug to the kill switch plugged in) I get the same 1.8 ohm reading.

Thoughts? Any specific wires I should be checking? Or should i just start peeling the entire harness and check the entire thing for broken / worn wires?

[Triple Jim]

What are you defining as a "short"? A true short circuit to ground would read zero ohms after subtracting the meter lead resistance.

I can't remember where I recently posted this, but the two coils as wired together with the red wire, would normally read about 1.8 ohms if the ignition box side of both coils were grounded. Try unplugging the negative side of both coils (the side connected to the ignition unit) and see if the 1.8 ohms becomes infinity. If so, that would indicate the ignition unit is grounding the coils full time.

[gitter]

With the neg side unplugged I get .005 from red wire to the frame where the ground is normally bolted

[gitter]

Pulled the harness out of the bike again, is there any way I can bench test wires in the harness for breaks or bare spots with a multimeter?

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by gitter

With the neg side unplugged I get .005 from red wire to the frame where the ground is normally bolted

.005 kohms, which would mean 5 ohms? I don't know of a general purpose meter that will read values as low as .005 ohms.

[gitter]

Well, .005 with the multimeter set on 2k

[Triple Jim]

Ok, you really should have the meter set to its lowest scale. What that is varies with meters, but sometimes it will say "Rx1", or it might say something like 20 ohms, etc.. The 2k scale is meant to measure resistances of hundreds or thousands of ohms.

In your previous posts, when you said something like the meter read 1.8, was it set to the 2k scale? If so, it read 1,800 ohms, not 1.8 ohms.

[gitter]

Lowest setting on the meter is 200. Which is where I've had it set the whole time. When i tested earlier, the only way I could get a reading was to set it at 2k. With it set on 200 the reading was jumping all over the place

[Triple Jim]

Jumping around is a sign of an intermittent problem. Sometimes you can wiggle various sections of the wiring and figure out where the problem it by how the changing resistance looks. When you actually find the spot, you may be able to bend or move things to make the resistance to to zero or infinity, and you'll know you found it.

If the problem was caused by a wire with worn insulation rubbing on the frame, for example, once the harness is out about all you can do is look carefully for the spot that shows bare wire.

[gitter]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

I can't remember where I recently posted this, but the two coils as wired together with the red wire, would normally read about 1.8 ohms if the ignition box side of both coils were grounded. Try unplugging the negative side of both coils (the side connected to the ignition unit) and see if the 1.8 ohms becomes infinity. If so, that would indicate the ignition unit is grounding the coils full time.

So if I'm reading this correctly, with everything plugged in, key off, if I measure at the red wires (spade connectors) at the coils, its normal to get 1.8 ohms?

[Triple Jim]

No, it's about what you'd measure if the negative side of the coils were grounded for some reason, like if the ignition unit had both outputs shorted to ground.

[gitter]

ohhhh ok, i get what you're saying now. So should I start with the black / green wires at the coils and check them for damage?

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by gitter

ohhhh ok, i get what you're saying now. So should I start with the black / green wires at the coils and check them for damage?

You already did that remember? No shorts on those wires when the ends were disconnected. We're moving upstream to the next parts of circuit that may have shorted.

Coils were ok.

Next upstream is red power wires between coils and handlebar switch.

You've been leaving the IC-ignitor disconnected during all these tests?

[gitter]

Originally Posted by JacRyann

You already did that remember? No shorts on those wires when the ends were disconnected. We're moving upstream to the next parts of circuit that may have shorted.

Coils were ok.

Next upstream is red power wires between coils and handlebar switch.

You've been leaving the IC-ignitor disconnected during all these tests?

no, it's been plugged in.

[DannoXYZ]

Test with it unplugged and see if there's any difference. Shouldn't be if it's off anyway

You did good job finding short in that black wire. Now gotta do same for red.

[gitter]

Dumb question. Can I test the red wires with the wiring harness off the bike? If so, how?

[gitter]

Started visually inspecting the red wires in the harness and didn't see any damage anywhere. Should I just start going through every wire that is involved with that green plug?

[DannoXYZ]

Yeah.

Test resistance end-to-end of each wire.
Then test resistance between red wire and the others.

It was shorting to chassis-ground somewhere. And the random variations in resistance you measured would indicate a moving short that changes as it gets jiggled.

[gitter]

ok, i'll start there tomorrow instead of ripping more into the harness. Side note, theres main harnesses on ebay for around $80, I'm tempted to pick one up....but at this point it kind of seems like the lazy way out

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by gitter

ok, i'll start there tomorrow instead of ripping more into the harness. Side note, theres main harnesses on ebay for around $80, I'm tempted to pick one up....but at this point it kind of seems like the lazy way out

Divide the number of hours you've dedicated to resolving this problem into $80.00. Man, I bet you're workin' cheap!

I do admire you're determination though.

Bill

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Ram Jet

Divide the number of hours you've dedicated to resolving this problem into $80.00. Man, I bet you're workin' cheap!

I do admire you're determination though.

Bill

Yo gitter, "You deserve a break today".

http://www.ebay.com/itm/162337053373?ul_noapp=true

Biker Billy

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by gitter

ok, i'll start there tomorrow instead of ripping more into the harness. Side note, theres main harnesses on ebay for around $80, I'm tempted to pick one up....but at this point it kind of seems like the lazy way out

Well, unless you are buying brand-new harness from dealer, you should still test each and every single wire in any harness you get. That eBay one looks like good deal though. Gimme call when it comes in, I come over and help you test it and install .

You still need IC-ignitor though

[gitter]

Originally Posted by JacRyann

Well, unless you are buying brand-new harness from dealer, you should still test each and every single wire in any harness you get. That eBay one looks like good deal though. Gimme call when it comes in, I come over and help you test it and install .

You still need IC-ignitor though

Thanks ordered the harness and an IC-ignitor. Everything should be here in about a week.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by gitter

Thanks ordered the harness and an IC-ignitor. Everything should be here in about a week.

From 2,400 miles away I'll be able to hear that sweet little engine come to life.

Bill