Back to fixing the broken beast.

[itslocfoo]

I bought a ninja 250 on craiglist in october. I took a break from fixing it because of midterms and test from school. The issue my ninja have is idling. I could not make it idle anymore, I mean sometimes it could idle at 3k but it will eventually die off. The bike idle goes up or down when i turn the handlebar. I often take it out for a ride but after high rev to down shift at a stop light it would turn off or stall. The bike doesnt idle at all i do not know why. When i first bought it i notice it doesnt idle but i didnt know anything about bikes and what is idling. However, 2 weeks ago i cleaned out carbs (it was already cleaned when i opened it). I do not know what to do next. I plan to drill out the plugs for the idle mixture screw i think that's the issue. I plan to actually do everything by myself (DIY) because I am running out of money.
If you guys are near I live in Irvine California come take a look and give me some tips.
If you guys could comment and ask more questions and help me find the issue it would be much appreciated.

I know it's thanksgiving so HAPPY THANKSGIVING. Unfortunately, my family does not celebrate this awesome eating holiday.

[csmith12]

Basics brah!

Gas + air + spark

Easy checks first:
Carbs cleaned - done
Functional Petcock - check
Fuel filter - check
Strong charge on battery - check
Airbox clean - check
Air filter clean - check
Mist carb cleaner around carbs/intake boots/vac lines (vac leak check) - check

Harder:
Check spark - pull spark plug and leave connected inside boot, ground against engine case and turn it over to visually check spark (the bluer the better)
Drill plugs and turn mix screws all the way and then 2.5 turns out

Stock exhaust and jetting?

[itslocfoo]

Originally Posted by csmith12

Basics brah!

Gas + air + spark

Easy checks first:
Carbs cleaned - done
Functional Petcock - check
Fuel filter - check
Strong charge on battery - check
Airbox clean - check
Air filter clean - check
Mist carb cleaner around carbs/intake boots/vac lines (vac leak check) - check

Harder:
Check spark - pull spark plug and leave connected inside boot, ground against engine case and turn it over to visually check spark (the bluer the better)
Drill plugs and turn mix screws all the way and then 2.5 turns out

Stock exhaust and jetting?

HAhah thanks so much man! you've always been a great help! how do i do a funtional petcock check andfuel filtercheck?, airbox clean?
and is there video on using mist carb cleaner around boots and vac lines?

For the spark plugs what do you mean leave connected inside boot? what boot? what do you mean ground against the engine case?

THANKS BRO! I plan on selling this and getting a newer generation! I want to fix it so the buyer of the bike doesnt have to do it.

[csmith12]

No problem, always glad to help.

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach him to fish, he eats forever. Here are some videos and comments that will help.

Vacuum leak check

Link to original page on YouTube.

Spark plug fire check. Remember your looking for a BLUE spark, when in doubt change it. Plugs are cheap.

Link to original page on YouTube.

The air box and air filter checks are visual inspections. Although on a pregen, you might need the flashlight to see everything clearly in the air box.

I have a ghetto way of testing petcocks but is simple. Turn the petcock off and remove the line. If it leaks gas, fix it. With the hose still off, turn the petcock to prime, if you don't have a solid flow of gas, fix it. Turn the petcock off and reinstall line. Next drain the float bowls on the carbs (leave drain screw loose). Turn petcock to ON. and try to start the bike. If the petcock working the bowls will start to fill ONLY when the engine is turned over. If the gas does no stop when not cranking the engine, fix it. This is an area you want to pay special attention. If the petcock is getting weak vacuum, it may limit the amount of gas your getting for idle. In 20 years of riding, I have only ever had 1 petcock go bad, if you take the time to clean them ever now and then, they should treat you well.

Other good stuff. MatthewMCRepair (no affiliation) does a series of bike repair and diag vids. Browse through his vids most are very good.

Also, there is EricTheCar guy (no affiliation). His youtube channel is full of great videos for diagnosing odd stuff, suspension noises, performance issues and what not. Most of his vids are about cars, but when I work on bikes I apply alot of the same diag methods he does. Honestly, it's just plain common sense stuff.

Good luck and lemme know if you need anything else.

[GeorgeRYoung]

Originally Posted by itslocfoo

...The bike idle goes up or down when i turn the handlebar.....

This sounds like a throttle cable issue, routing or not enough play.

More generally, idle issues are governed by mung in the pilot jets, mixture screws, or the little transition ports near the bottom of the butterfly.

Cleaning procedure:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Cleaning_the_carbs_2

[csmith12]

How the h did I miss that easy one. /sigh..... Good catch George.

[Lychee]

A valve adjustment could also cause an odd idle. The pregen is scheduled to have valve adjustments at 600 and then at every 6k miles.

On the pregen petcock there is no "prime" setting so you will need to apply a vacuum to the second hose in order to simulate the engine vacuum. Suck on the hose or use a mittyvac.

Also check the tension on the choke cable. If it is too tight, turning the bars would cause the cable to tighten, thereby richening the mixture. That would also cause the rpms to rise during idle in most situations.

[itslocfoo]

Originally Posted by csmith12

How the h did I miss that easy one. /sigh..... Good catch George.

hey i was wondering how do i check if my petcock is functioning correctly ?

Do you think i need a valve adjustment?

i saw some people with the r6 having the same issue because it doesnt idle

[itslocfoo]

Originally Posted by Lychee

A valve adjustment could also cause an odd idle. The pregen is scheduled to have valve adjustments at 600 and then at every 6k miles.

On the pregen petcock there is no "prime" setting so you will need to apply a vacuum to the second hose in order to simulate the engine vacuum. Suck on the hose or use a mittyvac.

Also check the tension on the choke cable. If it is too tight, turning the bars would cause the cable to tighten, thereby richening the mixture. That would also cause the rpms to rise during idle in most situations.

Oh shoot i didnt see your comment.

I will probably do the valve adjust then. adjust all to 6 is a good idea or no?

which hose are you talking about for petcock?

how do i loosen the choke cable? if it is too tight??

[itslocfoo]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRYoung

This sounds like a throttle cable issue, routing or not enough play.

More generally, idle issues are governed by mung in the pilot jets, mixture screws, or the little transition ports near the bottom of the butterfly.

Cleaning procedure:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Cleaning_the_carbs_2

when i open my carbs it was already cleaned. I recleaned it even though it was clean so i dont think cleaning carbs is the solution.

[tdecotis]

+ 1 on being a throttle cable issue since the bike changes idle when you are steering. Lube the throttle cables and check the freeplay.

A valve adjustment, idle mixture adjustment, and even shimming the needles are all things that can effect the idle and get it working properly again. Just look around this site for how to do these things yourself. All are easy aside from the valve adjustment which is just time consuming.

[itslocfoo]

Originally Posted by csmith12

How the h did I miss that easy one. /sigh..... Good catch George.

hey i was wondering do i need a new gasket when i do a valve adjustment ?

[csmith12]

I reuse it if it looks to still be in good condition. I am sure many others do as well but you just don't know for sure until you take off the valve cover or it leaks after everything is put back together.

[itslocfoo]

Originally Posted by csmith12

I reuse it if it looks to still be in good condition. I am sure many others do as well but you just don't know for sure until you take off the valve cover or it leaks after everything is put back together.

Great news after the valve adjustment the bike idles at 1k! Thanks so much i hope it stays that way

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by itslocfoo

Great news after the valve adjustment the bike idles at 1k! Thanks so much i hope it stays that way

That's great man! But don't count on it staying that way past 6000 miles... That is the recommended service interval.

[itslocfoo]

Originally Posted by Lychee

That's great man! But don't count on it staying that way past 6000 miles... That is the recommended service interval.

Don't worry haha I'm not keeping this bike. I plan on getting a sv650

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by itslocfoo

I plan on getting a sv650

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=161636

You've been riding a month, are scared of crosswinds, and don't yet understand the concept of staying light on the bars and supporting weight without your hands.

Is more power really the best idea? Keep the junker pregen until you're more comfortable that you're not going to bin it.




Think about it.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by itslocfoo

Don't worry haha I'm not keeping this bike. I plan on getting a sv650

Originally Posted by choneofakind

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=161636

You've been riding a month, are scared of crosswinds, and don't yet understand the concept of staying light on the bars and supporting weight without your hands.

Is more power really the best idea? Keep the junker pregen until you're more comfortable that you're not going to bin it.

Think about it.

If that's the case - don't buy a SV650.

A SV650 isn't small, light, or easy to learn on. I've had one since 2006, and don't recommend them unless you have at least a couple successful seasons under your belt.

[itslocfoo]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=161636

You've been riding a month, are scared of crosswinds, and don't yet understand the concept of staying light on the bars and supporting weight without your hands.

Is more power really the best idea? Keep the junker pregen until you're more comfortable that you're not going to bin it.




Think about it.

you think so? its maybe its just cause my bike sucks. I feel like its so jumpy, it takes so long to warm up.i wanted to get a 2008 250r is that a bad idea? i just want to get rid of this bike and get another one :/ thank you so much!

Originally Posted by jkv45

If that's the case - don't buy a SV650.

A SV650 isn't small, light, or easy to learn on. I've had one since 2006, and don't recommend them unless you have at least a couple successful seasons under your belt.

oh damn yeah you're right now that i think about it i am not advance enough to get a 650. i actually want the ninja 2008 250. its just that i feel like this pregen is so light and scary and something is wrong with it. I got scammed from some guy for such a crappy bike i just want to sell it to someone that knows how to fix it. I fixed the idle issues already so i think its best if i sell it

thanks so much guys for the advice!
also! when i lean during a corner, i have wrist pain :/

[choneofakind]

You can get rid of all that jumpiness and long warm up period by adjusting the jetting a little bit.

The wrist pain means you're putting too much weight on your hands instead of carrying it with your knees/back/abs/legs/butt.

Best part about riding a beater as a learner is that you don't have to give 2 sh*ts about it when you drop it.

[itslocfoo]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

You can get rid of all that jumpiness and long warm up period by adjusting the jetting a little bit.

The wrist pain means you're putting too much weight on your hands instead of carrying it with your knees/back/abs/legs/butt.

Best part about riding a beater as a learner is that you don't have to give 2 sh*ts about it when you drop it.

adjust the jetting? oh man i have to take out the carbs and drill it :[

i have wrist pain when i use the throttle maybe its how i am holding the handlebar. Any tips?

its not really beaten hahah cosmetically its 10/10 but mechanically its 7/10. I wouldnt mind getting a ninja 250 4th gen with frame sliders.

I am so glad you told me not to get an SV650 hahaha

[choneofakind]

Maybe drill, maybe not. Go out and get it fully up to operating temp. While still hot, adjust the idle speed knob to proper idle (around 1300). That should cure some of the jumpiness. Later on, drilling the plugs might be a good idea so you can access your mix screws. Shimming needles out is another option to help it warm up faster and smoother while under load.

Question: this jumpiness. Do you ride off without choke after a cold start? Using choke and keeping the idle at ~2500 rpm keeps the bike nice and smooth. After a mile or two, the bike should respond properly to throttle and idle nicely. At that point, turn the choke off. Humor me and try this method of choke usage.


$10 says your wrist pain is from putting weight on your hands instead of supporting yourself with legs and abs and back. Funny grip can cause discomfort, but that's usually tingly fingers or whatever. Sore wrists is usually from too much weight on your hands.

[itslocfoo]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Maybe drill, maybe not. Go out and get it fully up to operating temp. While still hot, adjust the idle speed knob to proper idle (around 1300). That should cure some of the jumpiness. Later on, drilling the plugs might be a good idea so you can access your mix screws. Shimming needles out is another option to help it warm up faster and smoother while under load.

Question: this jumpiness. Do you ride off without choke after a cold start? Using choke and keeping the idle at ~2500 rpm keeps the bike nice and smooth. After a mile or two, the bike should respond properly to throttle and idle nicely. At that point, turn the choke off. Humor me and try this method of choke usage.


$10 says your wrist pain is from putting weight on your hands instead of supporting yourself with legs and abs and back. Funny grip can cause discomfort, but that's usually tingly fingers or whatever. Sore wrists is usually from too much weight on your hands.

good tips! i will try it!

no i dont ride using choke because i am a big p***y. Why humor you? hahaha what do you mean?

it could be my grips :[ the previous owner went pure ghetto with this bike. ugh i was so dumb.

[itslocfoo]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Maybe drill, maybe not. Go out and get it fully up to operating temp. While still hot, adjust the idle speed knob to proper idle (around 1300). That should cure some of the jumpiness. Later on, drilling the plugs might be a good idea so you can access your mix screws. Shimming needles out is another option to help it warm up faster and smoother while under load.

i found an easy way to not stall at the light. I just keep my hand steady and keep the rpm at 2k to warm up the bike while letting it run. Is that a bad idea?

[choneofakind]

Humor me means I'm right, but I want you to learn for yourself through experience rather than just doing it because someone on the internet tells you to.

No, grips don't cause wrist pain. I've mentioned this before, but most issues with motorcycles are 99% operator error, 1% equipment error. Riders are so quick to blame the equipment before changing their riding style. Pretend that your handlebars are tubes of toothpaste without any caps. Your goal is to not squeeze the tube so tightly or put so much weight on them that they spew toothpaste all over the place. The only tired part of your body after a long ride should be your head from thinking about traffic and your legs from supporting yourself; not your wrists. Never your wrists. Sore wrists = too much weight on your hands, aka you need to work on your riding posture.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by itslocfoo

i found an easy way to not stall at the light. I just keep my hand steady and keep the rpm at 2k to warm up the bike while letting it run. Is that a bad idea?

Much easier to let the choke do that for you. I'm not going to go into fuel delivery vs throttle use, you're just going to have to trust me when I say that the choke is more effective and much easier. Use it to start, ease it off to get about 2500 rpm idle, leave it on until the bike responds to throttle properly and idles correctly, then turn it off completely.

I still think your idle is set too low as well. That's not helping your stalling issue.

[itslocfoo]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Much easier to let the choke do that for you. I'm not going to go into fuel delivery vs throttle use, you're just going to have to trust me when I say that the choke is more effective and much easier. Use it to start, ease it off to get about 2500 rpm idle, leave it on until the bike responds to throttle properly and idles correctly, then turn it off completely.

I still think your idle is set too low as well. That's not helping your stalling issue.

hahahaha my choke is weird... because when i try to make it idle at 2.5k with choke it just drops. the lowest i could keep it is 3k when im at school waiting for it to warm up it instantly rev up to 5k (very loud) idk what to do man.

i dont even know like i set it at 1.2k but sometimes when its warmed up it stays at 2k. i dont even know what to do hahah

[itslocfoo]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Humor me means I'm right, but I want you to learn for yourself through experience rather than just doing it because someone on the internet tells you to.

No, grips don't cause wrist pain. I've mentioned this before, but most issues with motorcycles are 99% operator error, 1% equipment error. Riders are so quick to blame the equipment before changing their riding style. Pretend that your handlebars are tubes of toothpaste without any caps. Your goal is to not squeeze the tube so tightly or put so much weight on them that they spew toothpaste all over the place. The only tired part of your body after a long ride should be your head from thinking about traffic and your legs from supporting yourself; not your wrists. Never your wrists. Sore wrists = too much weight on your hands, aka you need to work on your riding posture.

hahahah well i mean you seem like a very intellectual person thats why i am listening to your opinions.

I am excited to try that tomorrow morning hahaha. thanks soo much!

[choneofakind]

But I may be wrong also, so it could be a total shot in the dark.

[itslocfoo]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

But I may be wrong also, so it could be a total shot in the dark.

I feel like my choke is set too high is there away to adjust it?

[choneofakind]

Look down the length of the cable. There should be an adjuster on there. It looks like a barrel with a small nut at each end to change length and take up slack in the cable. Play with that a bit and see if it helps.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by itslocfoo

oh damn yeah you're right now that i think about it i am not advance enough to get a 650. i actually want the ninja 2008 250. its just that i feel like this pregen is so light and scary and something is wrong with it. I got scammed from some guy for such a crappy bike i just want to sell it to someone that knows how to fix it. I fixed the idle issues already so i think its best if i sell it

thanks so much guys for the advice!
also! when i lean during a corner, i have wrist pain :/

I know this bike has been a pain and overwhelming for you. Best might be to sell it and find something less worked-over. Maybe a good used, un-modded new gen would be a good choice for you.

I know you'll be much more careful buying next time around. Think how much you've learned!

[itslocfoo]

Originally Posted by jkv45

I know this bike has been a pain and overwhelming for you. Best might be to sell it and find something less worked-over. Maybe a good used, un-modded new gen would be a good choice for you.

I know you'll be much more careful buying next time around. Think how much you've learned!

Thank you! I rode a new car gen a few days ago it's so smooth! I and good looking

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by itslocfoo

hahahaha my choke is weird... because when i try to make it idle at 2.5k with choke it just drops. the lowest i could keep it is 3k when im at school waiting for it to warm up it instantly rev up to 5k (very loud) idk what to do man.

I dont even know like i set it at 1.2k but sometimes when its warmed up it stays at 2k. i dont even know what to do hahah

This is kinda normal when the engine is cold. If you cant finesse the choke to get 2.5k rpm leave it at 3k while warming up. When you say the bike is jumpy, I bet you are having clutch control issues. Remember squeeze in and ease out. Does the idle still change when you turn the handle bars?

[Lychee]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Is more power really the best idea? Keep the junker pregen until you're more comfortable that you're not going to bin it.

Originally Posted by jkv45

If that's the case - don't buy a SV650.

Originally Posted by itslocfoo

oh damn yeah you're right now that i think about it i am not advance enough to get a 650. i actually want the ninja 2008 250.

ninjette.org

[itslocfoo]

Originally Posted by Lychee

This is kinda normal when the engine is cold. If you cant finesse the choke to get 2.5k rpm leave it at 3k while warming up. When you say the bike is jumpy, I bet you are having clutch control issues. Remember squeeze in and ease out. Does the idle still change when you turn the handle bars?

hahah Its soo hard making it stay at 3k but i always try. idk how to adjust it
yeah i learned how to ride it smoother i didnt know you're suppose to use clutch to make the ride smoother. I didnt know because people said not to ride the clutch. no idea what does that even mean.

yeah it does i dont know how to fix it. I took my bike to the gas station where they had free air for tires i didnt know how to make it work hahahah soo embarrassing.

hey do you know if its okay to use snowboarding gloves for motorcycle riding?
http://www.dakine.com/p/snowboard/gl...-glove?clr=003
it seems like i get less pain on my wrist and keeps my hand warmer.

[choneofakind]

Dude. Winter gloves... in Irvine California? Are you kidding me? Weather.com is predicting 60's and 70's... It hasn't broken 30 here in a week.

No, that's not the point of moto gloves. Think about if you fall. What do you catch yourself with? Your hands. Now if you fall at 40 mph, how good are your hands going to feel? About as good as cheese that just went through a cheese grater.

Have you tried not putting weight on your hands?

Is this your first vehicle with a manual transmission?

[notsofast]

Originally Posted by itslocfoo

I got scammed from some guy for such a crappy bike i just want to sell it to someone that knows how to fix it.

Did you buy that one from riverside that has been up there for like 2 years?

[itslocfoo]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Dude. Winter gloves... in Irvine California? Are you kidding me? Weather.com is predicting 60's and 70's... It hasn't broken 30 here in a week.

No, that's not the point of moto gloves. Think about if you fall. What do you catch yourself with? Your hands. Now if you fall at 40 mph, how good are your hands going to feel? About as good as cheese that just went through a cheese grater.

Have you tried not putting weight on your hands?

Is this your first vehicle with a manual transmission?

HAhahahah dont judge me

i have a pair of gloves but its like summer gloves my hands and freeze to death.

I tried but when i hold it lightly but i still have a little bit of pain. maybe it was from previous tries of riding motorcycle.

well i drove my dad's toyota corolla sometimes when i wanted to learn probably only a few months ago. no one taught me how to drove so i just looked it up on youtube.

[itslocfoo]

Originally Posted by notsofast

Did you buy that one from riverside that has been up there for like 2 years?

um not up in riverside i bought this near dana point. from some guy that works in a restaurant. I onced asked him about his battery warranty because before i bought it he said its a brand new battery. 2 weeks after i bought the bike i noticed the battery is kind of defect or dead. i texted him and asked if he still has the warranty, he texted me back saying "All sales on are final"... i didn't know what to say.