Do you use your rear brakes and when?

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Ever since my MSF course I use the rear brakes all the time. Have found it makes things feel smoother and more comfortable.

+1 at my course we were taught to ride the rear brake when maneuvering at slow speeds within the friction zone. I've discovered that even when crawling around in 1st gear (with the clutch fully out) under very minimal load at low rpms (during traffic, for example) riding the rear brake helps eliminate any of that weird "bucking" you get because it forces you to use a little more throttle. That and it makes the bike nice and stable...

[CZroe]

I always use them together. When I chirp the rear tire, as I have many times, I get a feel for its braking limit and can stop better when emergency braking.

[paterick4o8]

you can also use your rear brake when on a downhill to keep the bike balanced; if you use your front break on a downhill your weight is shifted to the front of the bike -- either use the rear brake, or be smooth on the gas on a downhill to keep weight balanced

[TrueFader]

i use it around town just to keep the practice and be familiar with the pressure. in canyons i dont touch it unless i need to brake hard in a straight line. i instinctively use it in emergency stops. when stopped on a hill. on track is like canyons, i'll use it at the end of a straight away for better braking and settling the rear tire, but only after the front brake.

[FerociousNINJA]

Ditto!

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

I use my rear brake alot, but i will only use the front if i am just trying to scrub a bit of speed, mostly because i will already have set my body into position and would rather not upset the bike unecessarily. normal stopping 75-85% front with the balance for the rear.

I do alot of engine braking though

[backinthesaddleagain]

I use it to correct the a corner or balance the bike from time to time. Most of the time I ride slow that there is little to correct or balance.

[scotty]

I was tought to use both brakes at all time when slowing/ stopping. (Ohio motorcycle book) Although, now that I have been riding for a few months and learning how to control, turn, and stop the bike. There are times when I only use one of the brakes. When I do come to a complete stop while going staright, I will use the rear brakes along with the front.

[DRivero]

I'll be honest....I never use the rear. I used them in class and then promptly stopped doing it. I should, I know......I just never remember. I've yet to have a real emergency-stop situation, but I should practice with both.

Actually, my son recently dropped my bike and lopped off the part of the brake lever that sticks out, so at this point I couldn't use the rear brake if I wanted to. (Yes, I wanted to kill him)
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[binlagin]

I used to use my rear brake almost in every situation. But I went to the track and realized how DANGEROUS it can be and how USELESS it is under heavy braking.

Getting your bike all sideways and chirping the tire as the weight is offloaded.

It's all about a smooth application to the front brake.

Don't ever just "grab" it.. you must let it the brake pads catch, begin to apply more and more pressure while down shifting accordingly using engine compression to scrub off even more speed.

[Listerineteeth]

I was taught the 'set-up and squeeze' method of front braking. And then use the rear if I just felt the front just isn't enough (which is not often)

I use the rear mainly for 1st gear maneuvering in parking lots etc... Or to hold the bike in place while I'm sitting on it trying to look cool

I'll admit to tapping the rear brake while cornering, though it's something I do less and less (I guess I'm setting myself up for corners up a little better than when I started riding).

This thread is really interesting in terms of the physics that is described. To this I have 2 questions:

1. The front tire is smaller than the rear, so the contact patch with the road is less than the rear. I know weight shifts forward while braking, but is the weight shift enough to compensate for the reduced road contact (keeping in mind the front brake is much bigger than the rear?) So if the brake discs were the same size, would the rear brake be just as effective as the front? (This is hypothetical, I can't imagine 'huge rear brakes' being the next cool mod)

2. I've seen a lot of cruiser style bikes with huge rear brakes and little in the way of front brakes. Does the different chassis design reduce the effectiveness of the front brake? It seems they rely solely on the rear to stop them, and their front is the backup.

That second one may be a little off-topic, but I'm very curious as if the front brake is the way to go, then it seems odd that cruisers style bikes would put such emphasis on the rear brake. Being that we're all on two wheels, I would assume the basic characteristics would remain the same. But then again...

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by paterick4o8

you can also use your rear brake when on a downhill to keep the bike balanced; if you use your front break on a downhill your weight is shifted to the front of the bike -- either use the rear brake, or be smooth on the gas on a downhill to keep weight balanced

Actually, both brakes will shift your weight forward as a consequence of momentum. It's why the front brakes are more effective. A downhill slope will enhance this effect and possibly make the rear brake less effective.

[littledog]

rear brake front brake...?

Practice braking hard from 25 or 30 mph, over and over.

If your rear tire slides when going from 30 to 5 mph, then you will probably put your feet down and say "Ugh".

If your rear tire slides when going from 60 to 35 mph then you are probably near a very bad high side type accident, where you wake up in the hospital, or not.

Am I right, that learning to avoid an "Ugh" at 30mph can save your ass when you are going 60mph?

[Cab305]

Just last night i went out for a ride. Memorial Day in SOFLO is madness, Squid central. I made sure to stay on the back streets. I was approaching a light maybe 20-25mph, went to shift my feet from the tip toes (on peg) to arch, when I accidentally applied almost full rear brake. Didn't lock up.

I was going straight so I managed to keep it lined up and got off back brake to front to stop. Stopped at light un-puckered and kept going.

[Cab305]

Originally Posted by DRivero

lopped off the part of the brake lever that sticks out

Should get that fixed.

[lisa]

I use my back brake always but good slowing down pre corners. I can slow down on slow speeds with both. I guess it depends on the person

[Xoulrath]

I use the rear brake for slow speed maneuvers and for setting up some corners.

[FrugalNinja250]

I use both brakes as a matter of habit, but use front only to hold at lights and such.

[manos33rd]

Originally Posted by ally99

Hey guys. I did a search and didn't find a past thread on this topic.
I'm wondering how many of you:
a) use your rear brake at all (and if so, in which situations?)
b) use your rear brake in emergency braking as taught in the MSF course

I know on our bikes, the back-end of the bike is so lightweight and the rear brakes give so little assistance to the total stopping power of the bike, I've been staying away from my rear brake except in parking-lot types of situations. The fear of a high side b/c of a skidding rear tire is pretty strong, especially when thinking of accidentally using too much rear brake in an emergency stop. {{Shudder}} Just wondering if/when you guys use your rear brake.

Thanks! Allyson

I almost always use my back brake along with my front. And in emergency situations its automatic because I almost always use it. The only time I don't is when I am already slow and getting ready to drop my feet to the ground.
The method I use to deploy the back brake is as follows:
I grab the clutch and front brake lever and squeeze them at the same time. Then, as soon as I do that, I downshift with my left foot and apply just enough pressure to engage the rear brake with my right foot then add pressure till it is sufficient to stop. I also squeeze the hand brake in the same fashion... engage it, then squeeze in a controlled consistent fashion. Emergency braking is the same process, just a harder squeeze. Really even, controlled squeeze on the brakes. Squeezing stops the bike MUCH faster than grabbing, ESPECIALLY in emergency situations. I practice emergency braking at least once a week in a parking lot. I spend about 20 mins doing it. As far as the bike being light and the back wheel being prone to locking up, I would say it has more to do with the way you're braking than the weight of the bike. Although the tail of a 250 is light, all bikes have this "problem". Try depressing the brake in a controlled, even fashion, and you will find your stopping time decrease and your braking to be much smoother. You will also notice that you can depress the rear brake MUCH more without the wheel locking. You want to keep a controlled, even, constant pressure on front AND rear brakes. I hope this helped. I'm so tired but I wanted to post this before I forgot. lol Oh, and high-siding due to a locked back brake is not something I would worry about. And the braking power of the back end of the bike is WAY more than you'd think, try an even controlled braking style.... it will impress you how much the back brake helps.

[manos33rd]

haha update on this! I was riding WAY too fast on a road I should not have been riding that fast on.... and a guy decides to pull out of his driveway to check the mail across the road, completely blocking both lanes. In a blindspot on the road no less. Needless to say I did some emergency braking. AND, I made a HUGE error, should have known better, but did it anyway. I was braking so hard that I did actually lock the back tire. When I got to about 20mph I made a major oops and let off the back brake. The bike was already at an angle pretty good and it fishtailed BAD. lol. I still stopped with enough room between me and the guy to flip him off. (I know I was driving too fast but seriously. who blocks both lanes of a road to check the mail? silly silly man.) So, I had to go around this guy because he was completely clueless. Still sitting there. Traffic was already collecting in the opposite lane. Busy road. dumb driver. Me speeding. Bad combo. Still came out good. I need to slow down on that road though. I always ALWAYS end up just riding along and taking that road too quick.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by manos33rd

I always ALWAYS end up just riding along and taking that road too quick.

don't do that!

[Alex]

Saw a relevant passage in Cycle World's review of the new Speed Triple.

Link to the page itself

Originally Posted by Don Canet, long-time CycleWorld bike tester

The new brakes, along with the very good fork damping control and resistance to bottoming, made brake testing drama free. As is often the case with pure supersport bikes, I achieved my best stopping distance using front brake only, as the rear gets very light and slews out of line with little pedal application.

Don's one of the fast guys at all of the new bike launches, hired to wring bikes out to their limits. Sounds like a fun job, if only I had the skills. Here he is lapping Assen:

Link to original page on YouTube.

[coondog]

I save mine for low speed manuevering with the throttle, it's brutal on it so i save it otherwise. I would use it in an emergency stop for sure, stand up and lock that f'er and concentrate on front brake and dropping gears asap while keeping her straight.

[Scarmack]

Rarely ever use the rear brake. Front brake 99%

[lonewolf05]

front brake almost all of the time unless it just isn't stopping me quick enough then i decide to give some love to the rear

[Anthony_marr]

To boil it down to only one rule, mine is to NEVER LET THE FRONT WHEEL LOSE TRACTION AT ANY SPEED. The rest is just personal preference and refinement. As we can see, our members ride with a broad diversity of techniques, and we are all alive.

In smooth traffic, I prefer to not rest my right foot on the brake pedal at all; I find that my right leg can totally relax that way. So, using the rear brake requires an extra effort to place my foot back on to the pedal, thus making it more deliberate. I do not consider this a safety issue since the rear brakes has very little effect in normal riding conditions.

In progressive and foreseeable slowing maneuvers, I just down shift and use engine braking, or else just disengage the clutch and let the bike coast.

In heavy traffic, I do tend to place my foot on the brake pedal, mostly to activate the brake light while applying the required mechanical force in conjunction with the front brakes.

Once I have entered a corner or curve, where the two important factors are power and steering, I hardly touch the brakes at all, all the slowing having been done before hand while still on the straight by downshifting and both brakes. If I find myself having entered a corner faster than intended, I'll just counter-steer and lean the bike some more; to try to slow the bike by braking after entering a mid-high speed curve could cause it to lose lean, go wide or skid.

The time when I find myself using the rear brake predominantly is in slow maneuvers, as in parking lots, U-turns, uncontrolled intersections, steep inclines, or just plain lazy tail-dragging.

AM

[gogoKawi]

Always, except at the track.

[Misti]

I didn't read all the posts here just scanned through them.

I personally use front brake only when riding a sportbike under almost all situations UNLESS I end up off the road or in a big patch of gravel or something and then I use the rear. I sometimes use both brakes at the same time if I'm cruising on the street and casually stopping at a stop sign or light or on the side of the road. Most of the time when riding and slowing for corners or in an emergency braking situation I use front only, the front brake on sportbikes these days are powerful enough to be used for 100% of the stopping power.

At the Suprbike school we teach emergency braking and we coach our students to use the front only (on sportbikes) as it is not as easy to lock up as the rear. Many riders panic in emergency braking situations and hammer on the rear causing it to lock up, skid and fishtale often resulting in a crash.

We coach students to apply the front brake smoothly, progressively and hard enough to be able to come to a quick stop but not hard enough to suddenly lock the front tire. We have a training bike with outriggers that prevent the bike from crashing and we purposely get the students to intentionally lock the front (which takes a lot more force and effort than most riders realize) and then we teach them how to release the pressure enough so that the front unlocks but they still come to a quick stop. From there we get them comfortable with braking just at the verge of locking the front which results in the quickest and safest stops with the least stopping distance. This can be practiced in a parking lot as well without a special training bike just be sure to work up to max braking safely and slowly.

We have also tested riders at our military school where we measure the stopping distance when they use both brakes vs using front brake only and the majority of students (after being coached on how to properly use the front for emergency braking) have a better stopping distance when they use front only because they didn't skid the rear and they weren't distracted by fear of locking up the rear.

Cruisers or bikes with less powerful front brakes will require use of both brakes at the same time in order to bring them to a safe and effective stop.

Misti

[Live2ride]

In my msf course our instructors told us strictly to use both brakes when stopping, especially when emergency braking. They gave us the stopping power talk of the two brakes, the front providing 70% of braking and the back providing the other 30%. I noticed a rather large difference in braking distance when I used both compared to only using the front brake. I was riding a nighthawk though, so it wasn't a sport bike. I agree with you that, on a sport bike, the front brake provides much more braking power than a cruiser. After experience riding the 250 I still found that using both brakes decreased braking distance but it wasn't a significant difference; maybe 1-2 ft. at 25-30 mph. I still use both brakes when emergency braking because that extra few feet could save my life.

[tsiratiug]

I use both all the time. It was drilled into us at MSF and it just stuck with me. The amount of pressure on the rear is a feel thing and probably different for each rider/bike combination.

Actually, I'm surprised every time I go out how little I use the brakes at all. I've become an engine-braking-blipper-nut and brakes are usually only applied when coming to a complete stop.

One thing I have started doing though is putting a tiny bit of pressure on the rear brake as I blip down for a stop sign or redlight. I do this so the person behind me knows I'm slowing down. It's the only downside I've found to engine braking - the people behind you don't realize you're slowing (quickly) without that tail light to remind them not to run you over.

[JeffM]

Engine braking is essentially rear wheel braking, no?

[Alex]

Yes, it's very mild braking on the rear wheel. When off the gas the friction in the drivetrain causes it to slow, and therefore slows the rear wheel more than it would if it were coasting.

[Raven]

Not much but sometimes I use it when I feel like sliding it into driveway, leaving nice skid marks behind.

[almost40]

Theres a rear brake?? lol

[wvninja]

I use mine on thee 600 on basically every stop I do. There two sets of brakes for a reason, and the numbers confirm (and simple logic) that the applied force of two different sets of brakes will slow down the bike faster than one.

It would extend the brake pad life also since your not forcing the front set to do more work for lack of using the rear brake. Thats a whole diff discussion though.

[sohcanddohc]

I use the rear all the time. At 240lbs I find the Ninja dives hard when I use the front brake only. I know I could change the springs but it's my wifes bike. I would say that 75% of the time I use the rear only. I guess I have plenty of weight on the rear. I think that if you put the riders weight into this question you will see a pattern.

[Raven]

Yes, when my front brake is out. As of right now, been using engine brake and rear brake for time being til I get new front brake cup and fluids before I can go bat **** crazy.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by Raven

Yes, when my front brake is out. As of right now, been using engine brake and rear brake for time being til I get new front brake cup and fluids before I can go bat **** crazy.

I wouldnt ride a bike without a front brake.

[Alex]

Don't ride this one, then.

[ally99]

Hey guys. It's going on a year since I posted the original post in this thread. I now use the rear brake pretty frequently, but only in 3 specific circumstances. I don't use it in an emergency stop.
1) I do tend to use it at stop signs and stop lights. While learning to ride my Ninja 650 (a taller bike), I had to learn to stop smoothly while only being tall enough to rely on one solid foot down rather than two feet on tip-toes. The rear brake seemed to not only smooth my stops, but it forced me to get used to only using one foot on the ground at stops. Now it's habit.
2) I also use the rear in parking lots. Most of the time, I use ONLY the rear brake in parking lot situations.
3) My favorite time to use it is when making "rolling stop" kinds of turns such as a right turn at a stoplight or a yielding left turn. It makes it so that I can continue slowing as I push the bars for the turn. Applying the front brake while turning the bars can be disastrous! Using the rear in these situations has really smoothed out my rolling stops that used to be awkward for me.
I love my rear brake, but only for certain types of stops.

[c-dog]

Originally Posted by AnarchoMoltov

I just finished my MSF course at the end of May...The last day when we were being tested, on the quick stops/emergency stop, I witnessed a 200+ pound woman thrown over the front of a little 200cc bike (high side crash) cuz she grabbed nothing but front brake, she only had a 3/4 helmet on so she busted her chin open too.....needless 2 say I always use both brakes now

A lady at my MSF course did the exact same thing. Too much front brake too quick while doing the emergency braking test. I felt very bad for her as she was older and had a ton of enthusiasm about riding and motorcycles. She still passed the test and bought a Suzuki 250 cruiser to ride around.