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Old August 23rd, 2016, 09:51 PM   #1
waynemc
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Will this bike be okay?

I found two bikes. A 2012 and a 2010 ninja 250r (keep in mind I've never ridden a bike before so I can't really test it, also nobody to test it for me)

2012 - Black (love the color, has 3800 miles, owner is a college kid who bought it at around 1000 miles, owns another CBR600 bike, selling it for $2400, chain did look a little rusty it seemed, back tire seemed kind of worn compared to the front (possibly doing burnouts in it?), says it just got its break in oil change

2010 - Red/black (the body looked great besides a little scratch where he dropped it once, looks very clean and shiny, the chain looked fairly nice if I recall, the guy says he keeps it on a battery tender 24/7, selling it for $1950

I do want the black 2012 but I'm worried what if he was hard on it? How long might it last? Would I be good just doing an oil change, potentially a new chain, sprocket on the 2012 or may there be bigger more serious issues? I rode on the back with him and I mean it seemed to ride okay. It sounded like a bike and it didn't really clunk or sound like ****
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Old August 24th, 2016, 12:12 AM   #2
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Old August 24th, 2016, 05:19 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waynemc View Post
2012 - Black (love the color, has 3800 miles, owner is a college kid who bought it at around 1000 miles, owns another CBR600 bike, selling it for $2400, chain did look a little rusty it seemed, back tire seemed kind of worn compared to the front (possibly doing burnouts in it?), says it just got its break in oil change
This bothers me more than anything else about this bike. That means that it sat for 4 years without an oil change. It's probably why his chain looks rusty, because he didn't do any maintenance on the bike.

Good news is that these bikes are pretty tough and can take a lot of abuse.

Oh and welcome to the Ninjette forum.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 05:28 AM   #4
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Insufficient info.

IMHO you can learn a lot by interacting with the owner. Is the guy knowledgeable and straight with you? Is there ANYTHING funny about the story or ANYTHING the owner says? Does he strike you as a squid? Is his garage a disaster? The most trustworthy sellers tend to be boring, older ATGATT guys who live in nice neighborhoods and have a rolling tool chest in the garage.

The Ninjette is pretty bulletproof and can go tens of thousands of miles. Both of these bikes are on the newer side and nicely priced to boot.

Looking at the plastics is a good idea to spot unreported damage, but don't focus too much on them. Plastics are like clothes. What you're interested in is the health of the individual underneath. Pay closer attention to the fundamentals.

Do you see scraped bar ends and lever ends? Scrape marks on the exhaust or rearsets? If so, are there longitudinal scratches? Those are signs of an actual crash. A tip-over will leave a mark but not long scratches. Tip-overs are a non-event. About the worst that happens is the front turn signal might punch a hole in the fairing... I know this from personal experience.

Is everything straight? Have the owner stand the bike up vertical (or, better yet, put it on a paddock stand), stand well back and look at the bike from the front. Are the bars lined up?

Is there any binding in the suspension? Do you detect any slop or hear any clicking from the steering bearings?

With the bike running and in gear, grab the front brake and let the clutch out. Does it slip excessively? You should be able to get the bike to stall easily.

Are there lots of mods? That's actually a caution flag... people who crash bikes often do things like replace levers and exhausts, because those are what gets dinged. When I go shopping, I like to see a bone stock bike that's been cared for by that boring ATGATT guy with the tool chest in his garage.

Is the overall condition ratty, with rusted fasteners, filthy wheels and such? An owner who doesn't keep the bike clean probably doesn't pay much attention to maintenance.

When it runs, do you smell anything funny? See any blue or white smoke? If you stick your finger in the exhaust, does it come out oily or excessively sooty? Look in the oil sight glass... is it cloudy, like chocolate milk? (Black is okay... clear amber means a VERY recent change and that could indicate the owner is trying to hide something.)

When you showed up, was the bike already running or warm? If so it may be hard to start and the owner didn't want you to know that.

A college kid with a CBR600 PLUS this bike is unlikely to pay a lot of attention to maintenance, because he's got more things to worry about. That's a yellow flag for me. "Just got its break-in oil change" but he bought it with 1000 miles on it? The break-in change is supposed to happen at 600, but whatever.

Unlikely he's worn it out in only 2800 miles. Unlikely he did a lot of burnouts on it because, well, CBR. If you wanted to do a burnout which one would you pick?

Unlikely the sprockets are shot even if the chain wasn't lubed. Not enough miles. And surface rust is no big deal, but it is a warning sign. Are there any kinks?

The other owner made a point of saying he keeps it on a battery tender, which may or may not be true, but that's an indication that maintenance is at least on the radar. Keeping it on the tender 24/7 is overkill.

How many miles on that bike? Valve adjustments come due at IIRC 7500.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 06:19 AM   #5
waynemc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
Insufficient info.

IMHO you can learn a lot by interacting with the owner. Is the guy knowledgeable and straight with you? Is there ANYTHING funny about the story or ANYTHING the owner says? Does he strike you as a squid? Is his garage a disaster? The most trustworthy sellers tend to be boring, older ATGATT guys who live in nice neighborhoods and have a rolling tool chest in the garage.

The Ninjette is pretty bulletproof and can go tens of thousands of miles. Both of these bikes are on the newer side and nicely priced to boot.

Looking at the plastics is a good idea to spot unreported damage, but don't focus too much on them. Plastics are like clothes. What you're interested in is the health of the individual underneath. Pay closer attention to the fundamentals.

Do you see scraped bar ends and lever ends? Scrape marks on the exhaust or rearsets? If so, are there longitudinal scratches? Those are signs of an actual crash. A tip-over will leave a mark but not long scratches. Tip-overs are a non-event. About the worst that happens is the front turn signal might punch a hole in the fairing... I know this from personal experience.

Is everything straight? Have the owner stand the bike up vertical (or, better yet, put it on a paddock stand), stand well back and look at the bike from the front. Are the bars lined up?

Is there any binding in the suspension? Do you detect any slop or hear any clicking from the steering bearings?

With the bike running and in gear, grab the front brake and let the clutch out. Does it slip excessively? You should be able to get the bike to stall easily.

Are there lots of mods? That's actually a caution flag... people who crash bikes often do things like replace levers and exhausts, because those are what gets dinged. When I go shopping, I like to see a bone stock bike that's been cared for by that boring ATGATT guy with the tool chest in his garage.

Is the overall condition ratty, with rusted fasteners, filthy wheels and such? An owner who doesn't keep the bike clean probably doesn't pay much attention to maintenance.

When it runs, do you smell anything funny? See any blue or white smoke? If you stick your finger in the exhaust, does it come out oily or excessively sooty? Look in the oil sight glass... is it cloudy, like chocolate milk? (Black is okay... clear amber means a VERY recent change and that could indicate the owner is trying to hide something.)

When you showed up, was the bike already running or warm? If so it may be hard to start and the owner didn't want you to know that.

A college kid with a CBR600 PLUS this bike is unlikely to pay a lot of attention to maintenance, because he's got more things to worry about. That's a yellow flag for me. "Just got its break-in oil change" but he bought it with 1000 miles on it? The break-in change is supposed to happen at 600, but whatever.

Unlikely he's worn it out in only 2800 miles. Unlikely he did a lot of burnouts on it because, well, CBR. If you wanted to do a burnout which one would you pick?

Unlikely the sprockets are shot even if the chain wasn't lubed. Not enough miles. And surface rust is no big deal, but it is a warning sign. Are there any kinks?

The other owner made a point of saying he keeps it on a battery tender, which may or may not be true, but that's an indication that maintenance is at least on the radar. Keeping it on the tender 24/7 is overkill.

How many miles on that bike? Valve adjustments come due at IIRC 7500.
He's offering me the battery tender with the bike so I'd assume he really did keep it on it. It has around 6,000 miles on it.

I want the college kids bike but I'm afraid of what damage he might of done to it... but it seemed to ride alright. I'm not an expert but I mean, the shifting wasn't rough or anything.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 06:50 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waynemc View Post
He's offering me the battery tender with the bike so I'd assume he really did keep it on it. It has around 6,000 miles on it.

I want the college kids bike but I'm afraid of what damage he might of done to it... but it seemed to ride alright. I'm not an expert but I mean, the shifting wasn't rough or anything.
I would trust your gut. If you are getting that vibe, I'd pass on it.

As VaFish mentioned, giving it a "break-in" oil change at 3800 miles and 4 years does send up a red flag.

I'm at the point where I pass on anything that looks like it's been abused or neglected - rusty/loose chains, corroded fasteners, dirty oil, dark brake fluid, faded parts, etc - if you plan to take care of the bike it's just not worth buying something that has been neglected.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 07:23 AM   #7
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Woah-ho-ho-hooooooo! Putting my 2 cents in here...

Bashing on the college kids now, eh? That's a very case-by-case basis and, like judging all bike owners, requires getting to know them a tad. Stereotypes are great time savers, though.

Need I show off a "college kid's bike" to save some face?
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Old August 24th, 2016, 07:56 AM   #8
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Hi I'm a college kid who takes way too good care of his track bike
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Old August 24th, 2016, 08:13 AM   #9
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I realize I know very little about the bikes, but the '10 is more attractive to me. Black is not as visible as black/red, and visibility is very important. Being seen by other drivers may be the most important thing to staying alive.

The '10 seems to have been maintained better, and the age difference is not important to me.

As far as the rear tire of the '12, rear tires normally show wear before front tires look very worn, and they usually wear most in the middle, even if the rider rides the twisties a lot. 3,800 miles is enough to expect significant rear tire wear, so I wouldn't expect it was caused by abuse.

For the record, I was once a college kid who maintained his Kawasaki H2 diligently. Unfortunately for me, that was almost 40 years ago, but I still have the H2 in good condition, and still ride it.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 08:15 AM   #10
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I realize I know very little about the bikes, but the '10 is more attractive to me. Black is not as visible as black/red, and visibility is very important. Being seen by other drivers may be the most important thing to staying alive.

The '10 seems to have been maintained better, and the age difference is not important to me.

As far as the rear tire of the '12, rear tires normally show wear before front tires look very worn, and they usually wear most in the middle, even if the rider rides the twisties a lot. 3,800 miles is enough to expect significant rear tire wear, so I wouldn't expect it was caused by abuse.
Bikes still wear even if they're sitting there. So age difference is important
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Old August 24th, 2016, 08:33 AM   #11
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Woah-ho-ho-hooooooo! Putting my 2 cents in here...

Bashing on the college kids now, eh? That's a very case-by-case basis and, like judging all bike owners, requires getting to know them a tad. Stereotypes are great time savers, though.
Not all college kids, just the ones that don't take care of stuff.

Just so you know I'm not all about stereotypes, this was owned by a college kid (oldest son) -



I trust my gut almost all the time. If it looks abused or neglected, it usually is.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 08:43 AM   #12
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Bikes still wear even if they're sitting there. So age difference is important
Not sure what you mean. They can degrade when sitting, but I don't know about wear.

I have a 45 year old motorcycle, a 39 year old motorcycle, a 28 year old motorcycle, and a 12 year old motorcycle (my 250). The ones that get ridden least require the least maintenance, as long as I don't leave them so long that the carbs get gunked up and the tires get hard. And as you can probably tell, the age of the bike doesn't bother me at all.

An age difference of two years is insignificant to me. How well the machine was taken care of is very important.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 08:45 AM   #13
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Both are low mile bikes. both are bound to be just fine. My wifes ninja sat outside for 9 years before I bought it. Rusty chain, slightly faded black paint on frame and engine. Lubed up the chain, new tires and fluids, it's all good now. My chain is always rusty, as long as the important part is good (rollers) , I couldn't care less how rusty it is, that's just cosmetic
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Old August 24th, 2016, 09:24 AM   #14
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Not sure what you mean. They can degrade when sitting, but I don't know about wear.

I have a 45 year old motorcycle, a 39 year old motorcycle, a 28 year old motorcycle, and a 12 year old motorcycle (my 250). The ones that get ridden least require the least maintenance, as long as I don't leave them so long that the carbs get gunked up and the tires get hard. And as you can probably tell, the age of the bike doesn't bother me at all.

An age difference of two years is insignificant to me. How well the machine was taken care of is very important.
Degrade is a better word.

For example, rubber parts dry out and crack. Stuff like brake lines, dust seals, etc...
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Old August 24th, 2016, 10:30 AM   #15
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Degrade is a better word.

For example, rubber parts dry out and crack. Stuff like brake lines, dust seals, etc...
Time will do that, but mostly it's exposure to the elements and UV. Those are some of the more hidden effects from a lot of exposure. Corroded fasteners and rusted parts are more obvious, but they all add up to the same thing - more time/money/maintenance required.

Don't get me wrong, I've bought bikes that have been neglected and have issues, but they were really cheap. We recently purchased a 1st bike for my youngest son, so I have seen a fair amount of used cycles recently.

Most of what I've seen was not good - but they were not priced accordingly. We ended-up buying a bike 5 years newer with less than 1/3 the miles on it than another bike of the exact same model we looked at for the same price. No rusted chain, no corroded fasteners, no repainted parts. Being patient pays off.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 11:24 AM   #16
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My chain is always rusty, as long as the important part is good (rollers) , I couldn't care less how rusty it is, that's just cosmetic
You really should keep enough lube on it to prevent rust. The O-rings don't like to run dry, and rust on the side plates where they contact the O-rings will wreck them.

The most important part of the chain is the bushings in the joints that are sealed by the O-rings, so once the rubber rings go bad, things get worse fast.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 04:14 PM   #17
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Yep, that part moves all the time. It gets lubed, at times, but I never spray the face, makes too much mess.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 05:01 PM   #18
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both bikes are new-ish. Buy whichever one you want. Maintained or not, I always go through my new (used) cars/bikes so I know everything is fresh.

I would be doing an oil change on both regardless of which one I bought. I doubt the surface rust is an issue on the chain, but if you are THAT worried about it, offer him $2300 and buy a new chain with the $100 left over....done and done!
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Old August 24th, 2016, 08:53 PM   #19
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I like the cheap one
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Old August 25th, 2016, 06:19 AM   #20
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I like the cheap one
For a $500 savings on a first bike, that you might drop anyway, I would go with the cheap one too. It's also the one that sounds like it was maintained better.

Think of it this way. The $500 savings will buy you new plastics when you drop it. You can get them in the black color you like when you have the confidence back.
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Old August 25th, 2016, 07:02 AM   #21
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For a $500 savings on a first bike, that you might drop anyway, I would go with the cheap one too. It's also the one that sounds like it was maintained better.

Think of it this way. The $500 savings will buy you new plastics when you drop it. You can get them in the black color you like when you have the confidence back.
I had my friend drive them both. Said the 2010 had some sort of shifting problem he couldn't quite figure out, and the shifting was hard. Also the steering shakes badly at around 45mph (he didn't go any higher as was the request of the guy selling the bike)

Said the black 2012 drove a lot better.
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Old August 25th, 2016, 07:23 AM   #22
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Wow, that shows the importance of driving a vehicle before you buy it! Those problems could be minor and easy to fix, but if so, the seller should fix them before trying to sell the bike. They could also be big expensive problems.
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Old August 25th, 2016, 08:57 AM   #23
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I had my friend drive them both. Said the 2010 had some sort of shifting problem he couldn't quite figure out, and the shifting was hard. Also the steering shakes badly at around 45mph (he didn't go any higher as was the request of the guy selling the bike)

Said the black 2012 drove a lot better.
That changes things a lot then.
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Old August 25th, 2016, 09:35 AM   #24
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That changes things a lot then.
Too bad he's out of town until Sunday now. About to just finance a brand new 2016 ninja 300
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Old August 25th, 2016, 09:46 AM   #25
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Too bad he's out of town until Sunday now. About to just finance a brand new 2016 ninja 300
Patience Grasshopper.

That is a huge difference in money, and for a first bike.

Wait until Sunday.
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Old August 25th, 2016, 10:38 AM   #26
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My father used to talk about "new car fever". I think you might have "new motorcycle fever".

VaFish is right, be patient and use the time to read over the owner's manual and some key parts of the shop manual. Also find the MSF Beginner's course in your area and sign up if you haven't already. If you're lucky, you might be able to take a 2-day weekend course this weekend and satisfy your motorcycle riding urge. They supply the motorcycles.
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Old August 25th, 2016, 11:31 AM   #27
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I def have a 300 parked here... An I suddenly didn't like the cheap on with the funny steering an messed up shifts; wonder what it did at 65 yikes
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