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Old July 12th, 2022, 10:46 AM   #1
Bob KellyIII
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Diagnostics on motorcycles

well, I have started to get the nessarry cables and stuff for reading the ECU
on my RX4.... sense it is fuel injected and has ABS and all that stuff I thought I'd begin the learning proccess of how to do that !
... I think I used a OBD reader once in my life and got the error codes for a F.I. VW station wagon that my mom had... it gave me a number and I looked it up and I went and bought the part it said was bad... installed it and the car was happy again..... that is my FULL experience doing diagnostic repair on anything with a computer in it.... but that was decades ago and things have changed a great deal sense then.
...
My goal is to be able to modify the ECU to allow me to choose how rich or lean the bike runs and not be stuck to the manufacturers standards that are too lean in my view just to pass EPA stuff....
....
so I have been learning ...slowly, more and more about what is going on in this stuff.... the RX4 uses a DELFI MT05 ECU if I read that correctly
and I have seen several videos on You tube about How to do that stuff
... but 90% of those videos assume you know what their talking about and that makes it really hard to understand it.
so far I've Downloaded the Hard to find HUD ECU HACKER program
and got it installed here on this machine.... but that doesn't do me much good as it is a big desktop machine.... I'll snag my Kid's Lap top and commandeer it for actual work on the bike I think.
the next major problem is the cable to attach to the ECU on the bike
....
I got one that should work on the way and another one from it to a USB cable to go to the computer... it should arrive first.
I also got a WIFI OBD2 unit that should allow me to connect wireless to the laptop and if that fails I can fall back to the USB cable and still be good to go
.....
I've been exploring the HUD ECU HACKER program a bit and found it is very robust indeed it should allow me to change anything I want in there ...
but therein lies the problem if you mess up just one setting it can and will stop the bike from working completely ! it's not something you "Play" with
and there are probably 100 settings to choose from
in short you better know what your doing before you change anything !
....
there is a way to save a backup file of the ECU and obviously I should do that before I do anything else.... 2 or 3 times ! LOL
.....
but then we start to get into the settings and what they do
Luckily the Maker of HUD ECU HACKER has included some files of his bike that you can run and see how it is supposed to look this is very handy
and gives you a better understanding of what is going on inside the ECU
...
on a Youtube video I saw a guy flash his bike with new settings all went well for him and it did what he wanted (he had a backup just in case) but it was a bit cryptic and short but I think i can sort it out...
,,,
it's all very technical and very Cryptic but there is a data sheet telling you what those 3 letter words represent in the ECU Hacker program so that is great !

Right now I am Just exploring this new found world and I know many bikes sold today are F.I. Bikes so people will need to know how to do this stuff soon
if not already.... but there is not very much information on it or how to do that..... so that is why this thread...
Please feel free to add to this as I need all the help I can get ! LOL
,,,,,,,,
Bob....
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Old July 12th, 2022, 04:32 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
My goal is to be able to modify the ECU to allow me to choose how rich or lean the bike runs and not be stuck to the manufacturers standards that are too lean in my view just to pass EPA stuff....
So ah... what data have you collected that shows this???

Have you tried unplugging O2-sensor? Default maps without feedback is typically richer than stoich...

MT05 or MT05.2?
Dealing with Delphi... rather get eaten by fleas of a 1000 rabid dogs...

While you're waiting, look up the .xml defs file (under "help") for your particular ECU's .bin and learn what various settings are. You may need to make customised .xml file if no one has created one yet. Or get WinOLS which can scan .bin maps and generate defs file...

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; July 12th, 2022 at 05:52 PM.
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Old July 12th, 2022, 11:05 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
So ah... what data have you collected that shows this???
Well, No data at all... just experience from the 70's on manufacturers have been trying very hard to lean out anything that has a internal combustion engine on it...we all know that. it got to a point in the early 1970's that I had a ford pinto that got 24MPG but it never ran right always staggering it would not run smoothly.... so I pulled the main jets in it's 2bbl carb and reamed out the main jets just a little made sure the accelerator pump was working correctly and put it back together the car ran like it was brand new after that my gas mileage went down to 22MPG but the motor ran smooth as glass.... it was worth it !
that was a 1973 ford Pinto just one example of the 50 or so examples I have
of "Everything runs too lean !" .... in most cases it doesn't hurt a thing to run as lean as they have them...i.e. nothing will melt in the engine.
but a good running engine needs more fuel than they give it !
I made an infinitely variable carburetor for a Old B&S 2hp motor and that engine would run from very rich to extremely lean with no problems there is a wide range of the running profile of the fuel ! but for performance the best bang for your buck is on the lean side so Hot-Rodders have been searching for the perfect ratio of fuel to air sense cars were invented.
Manufacturers say we set them perfect ! I do not believe them !
especially on my RX4.... "it even acts lean" through the entire RPM range
and A plug color check will confirm that.
WHY then are these motors being ran TOO LEAN ? well, EPA and other forces at play pressure the manufacturers to "tow the Mark" and do what we say or you can't sell your product here.
...
back in the 1950's if you ran a 455 c.i.d. v-8 that lean it would destroy the engine in my 36' bus the valves receeded up into the head they could not stand the heat of the new fuel or the new carb I put on it....and new heads cost more than it was worth ! so it went to the steel yard.
Leanness means HEAT .... too lean and you will melt stuff inside the engine
they are playing a very dangerous game of Really hot but not quite hot enough to melt...... to me that is silly it doesn't have to be THAT HOT ( or that lean) they walk a razors edge that's just not healthy for an engine !
especially when all you have to do is change the fuel to air ratio to one a few points richer. on the HUD ECU HACKER one of the files I ran showed a 14.6 Fuel to air ratio if you were to change that to 14.8 it would surely take away some of that intense heat !
I don't think I'ed go as far as changing it to 15.5 or something like that
but if that is what it takes to get a decent plug color check I may well do just that !
....
this bike runs so lean it can't even Idle correctly and for a single cylinder that is stupid
....
So No Danno I don't have any Data to back up my claims that "it's running too lean".... but I don't need Data to tell me that, i can feel it and hear it in the way that it runs ( that's easy on a single cylinder, not so easy on a Twin.)
and a plug color check never lies ! ( as long as the rings are good ) LOL

if I were God I'd command that all internal combustion engines of the 4 stroke ilk would run a tan sparkplug check. Not white but that is what we have forced upon us.

.....

Bob......
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Old July 12th, 2022, 11:12 PM   #4
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And Thanks Danno I'll do that
from what I understand the .XML file is a machine language file and unless your into machine language programming (which I am Not!) there is no information in them that can be gleaned... you have to run them through another program to make any sense of them.....
.....so yah ! that might be interesting !
....
Might I ask you what the Fuel to air ratio is on your Race bike or any bike you ride for that matter .... that could be enlightening !
....
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Old July 12th, 2022, 11:19 PM   #5
Bob KellyIII
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Here is a link to HUD ECU HACKER ....
https://www.netcult.ch/elmue/HUD%20ECU%20Hacker/
...........the download is way at the bottom of the page....

just incase someone needs to get it.... it took me a long time to find it !
....
Bob.....
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Old July 14th, 2022, 07:05 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
when all you have to do is change the fuel to air ratio to one a few points richer. on the HUD ECU HACKER one of the files I ran showed a 14.6 Fuel to air ratio if you were to change that to 14.8 it would surely take away some of that intense heat !
I don't think I'ed go as far as changing it to 15.5 or something like that
but if that is what it takes to get a decent plug color check I may well do just that !
I'm pretty sure you've got that backwards. 14.7 is the stoichiometric (ideal) ratio of air to fuel, theoretically burning all fuel with no leftover air. (link) 14.6 is slightly richer (a little more fuel). 14.8 is leaner. 15.5 is leaner still. if the plan is to go richer - you need to have it lower than 14.6.

What those older engines you describe didn't have, was a highly accurate O2 sensor downstream, along with the ability to instantly adjust the fueling ratio to compensate what it's seeing on pretty much each revolution. That allows the ECU to run almost scary lean when appropriate, and plenty rich for short periods as well - theoretically the best of both worlds.
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Old July 14th, 2022, 02:15 PM   #7
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Yeah, usually anywhere over 80% throttle and 80% of redline, ECU goes into open-loop mode and ignores O2-sensor. Running off base-maps under those conditions is typically in 12:1 AFR range.
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Old July 14th, 2022, 08:03 PM   #8
Bob KellyIII
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Thanks Alex.... yah I get the Fuel air ratios reversed in my head all the time
but I am keenly aware that the big number is the AIR ! lol....
I agree it is very hard to improve upon PREFECTION.... but it is not quite perfect yet.... I don't mind the bike idling lean... I just don't like the occasional
miss that that causes... that shouldn't be in there it should be perfect ! and it can be.... it's just that someone has to spend the time and effort to tweak it
to where that occasional miss doesn't exist anymore.
Manufacturers can't spend the time needed to tune each individual bike because each bike is an individual, it's not exactly the same as the others
a single hole missed in the baffle of the exhaust pipe during manufacturing
can cause a difference in it's running.
....
One of my Cables arrived today.. the USB one.... this one has a switch on it
and is for fords mainly but I think it should work regardless as it's just lines to the computer... the other cable is on a slow boat from China at the moment... it will be here next month !
....
Danno: I noticed a great deal of stuff under the Closed loop section,
and only a few under the Open loop section and it made me wonder if there was a block diagram of logic path for the ECU ... that could be quite helpful
do you know of any such thing ?
......
I can see that dealing with Delfi stuff may will cause me to loose more hair
as the information is even harder to find for those than the other ones !
... like trying to find a ECU for a VW van I had at one time most people didn't even know they had one ! but something went wrong and it got too lean and fried a cylinder.... it was running on 3 not 4 and the exhaust leak was horrible ! 4 cyl pancake engines from VW had a tendency to pull the studs out of the block that held on the head... that is what happened here.
after market studs got the head back on but then spark went away and I tried everything to find the problem.... never did, a friend of mine wanted the van real bad so I sold it to him !
...
...
Well, I've made small saddle bag carriers for the TT250.... just need paint!
... and I can put the boxes on... I switched from 1/8" to 3/16" thick 1 1/2" bar stock and it's much sturdier now!
....
Bob.......
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Old July 14th, 2022, 08:15 PM   #9
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Back in my younger days I always was shooting for 12:1 for the FAR....
if I remember right... but with the older bikes there was just guess work to get there..... but I got fairly good at guestimating the main jet size to get the brown plug reading and it was real easy to go too far !
...
but it looks like these new things you can just set it that way.... it's probably run like **** if you did though LOL
....
the settings that come into play "Just off throttle" should be interesting to play with as the bike could pick up alot faster than it does.... I know this from experience with other bikes and the acceleration of the engine is a bit slow
( not horrible but noticeably slow to me.... it's not going to wheely!)
they probably set that area very consertively for emission concerns.
....
later !
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Old July 24th, 2022, 03:35 AM   #10
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Been doing alot of learning about this stuff lately...and I am starting to understand that there is a place where upon accelerating you can adjust it even richer if you want to.... there is a great deal of stuff going on inside that little box ! ....
a good sounding 4 stroke single has a Crack or harsh pop to it's running sound a honda 450R has that Crack sound in it's exhaust note usually.
this RX4 does not, even on a good day with it all warmed up ...it has a mushy pop not a crisp pop if you know what I mean....
the question is will changing the 14.6 to 1 fuel air ratio, to a 12.5 to 1 fuel air ratio make it sound crisper or softer ? hard to say....
back a few decades ago when I had a TT500 yamaha single that bike was a real powerhouse ! it had the crisp sound to it.... as many Harleys do and it was a great bike all the way around for the dirt.... if I could get this 450cc to run like that one I'ed be really pleased !
....
the beauty of this technology is that I can change the fuel air ratio to anything I want ( in theory) and see for myself what works best for power output... without the hassle of tearing into the carburetor and changing jets
and that never told me what the fuel air ratio was.... this will.... so if I find that the bike is bogging upon acceleration ( it's done this sense day one)
i can address JUST that... and that is really a powerful tool.
more than likely 99.9% of all the settings in there will be left alone
....but the things like the barometric reading for altitude...i have a gut feeling are way off.... which may well be the cause of all my other complaints !
.....
but when the Bike has the ability to decide to lean itself or richen up the fuel
...that has got to be the greatest advancement in internal combustion engines sense the beginning !and to do it accurately and to the millisecond...
that really is amazing ! ....
I just wish they would have tuned the engine for power and not EPA
I mean I don't want to be belching black smoke everywhere but I want an engine that runs right.... one I can appreaciate and feel that it IS running good ....
.....
if I want to feel a good running engine I don't get in the Honda CRV I get on the triumph 750....
....
anyway....i am waiting for my new J2534 adapter cable to get here and then I should be able to down load the ECU off my bike !
....i hope I hope I hope ! HAHAHAH
Bob......
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Old August 7th, 2022, 02:25 AM   #11
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Ok.... I've made quite a bit of progress on this stuff as of late.
I finally figured out one of the biggest problems I had with HUD ECU HACKER
and that was when trying to edit the file it told you you had to add a calibration file... that's all it said.... not which one or where to find it or anything like that.
.... so I got my Kid over here and he figured it out in a few minutes for me
it didn't say which one because you have to make the file ! and you do that by creating a new patch file and THAT is your calibration file....
once that was figured out I could edit the paramaters that were shown....
so I imediately set out to lower the fast Idle of my RX4 because 2000 RPM at idle is way too fast for me ...I don't like that !
so sense that portion of the file is a table I edited all the instances of idle RPM
on the thing ,which corrosponded to a tempiture raiting of the coolant.
instead of starting out at 1800 RPM (what I see is 2100RPM on the bike)
I took that down to 1500 RPM.... and as it warms up it slowly dropped the RPM so I did the same but dropping it down to 1000 RPM ( I can easily go lower if I want to )
.... then I saved the Patch file and it is ready to be uploaded to the bike
and see if it actually changes anything....
though I haven't done that yet I probably will soon
my bike is set to a main fuel to air ratio of 14.650 to 1 and many things change that.... the Acceleration enrich funtion changes it quite a bit but not as much as i would like so I tried changing that and ran into some problems but finally got it to work .... normially it starts out at 14.6 at a small opening of the throttle and drops to 13.250 on 90% throttle
that seems very low to me so I changed it to starting out at 13.750 and ending up at 12.000 at 90%
the throttle does not go past 90% which I find very interesting
...this is not the same setting as Raw power Acceleration which has a huge table that goes all the way down to 12.000 :1
but it only goes into that table under certain conditions (and I have a feeling that is rare for it to get into that one!)
so I had no fear making it as rich as 12:1 as it does that in another area .
....
I won't put in that Acceleration Enrich Patch till after I try the Idle patch
and make sure i am doing it right....
....I can always go back to the original ECU settings at anytime I want to
as I have that file saved in about 5 different places ! LOL
....
I also think the ECU does not know it is at 3500ASL.... It is probably stuck at 2500' as I think it will call that on default if the Baro information is too low
not positive on that but I am guessing !
....
so I am making progress.... slowly but surely
watching a video on youtube about a Kid doing this to his bike he mentioned his Wonky idle was fixed by cutting the amount of air it allowed in half
so if my Idle patch doesn't fix the problem I'll check the idle air next.
....
this is very interesting stuff and I am learning alot quickly but it's like I'm not sure I understand everything I know about it just yet ! HAHAHHAAH
.....
Bob.......
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Old August 11th, 2022, 07:12 PM   #12
Bob KellyIII
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Well, to add to my never ending saga of Modifying the fuel injected bike I have
Today I modified my ECU programming ....finally and it actually worked
the bike Idled way to fast for my liking and that has been an irritant sense day one.
but today I managed to lower the idle from 2000RPM idle to 1600RPM idle
and I am glad I didn't go any further than that as that is pirty darn slow for that machine....
I uploaded the entire software and calibrations which took about 2 minutes and then heard the fuel pump reset... then I immediately downloaded the entire ECU to double check that my Idle mod took effect, which it had...
I fired it up and at first it idled at 1800 RPM because it was cold then it slowly decreased to 1600 RPM and that was perfect !
so that was a big success ! it's been like 3 weeks for me to get to the point I could adjust the idle on my RX4 .... some how I just don't think this is progress ! LOL BUT I DID IT !!!!! and I am quite proud of myself , You can teach an old dog new tricks ! HAHAHAHA it just takes longer is all !
.....
my next task is to change the 14.62 FAR to 13.62 .... WHY ? because I think 14.62 is just a tad too lean is all....
the bike has always acted very lean it idles rough and has a tendency to stager on acceleration not all the time but often enough to be noticeable
so in my brain I have decided that it's too lean of fuel OR too far advanced spark..... it could be either but I think it's fuel.... if I lower that fuel to air ratio that the engine sees and it still does the same thing I will work on backing off the advance for the spark..... it goes way past 40degrees some times which seems excessive to me, my Triumph only goes to 31deg. on full advance..... and I don't think the engines are soo different to warrant that kind of advance spark...... but I could be Wrong ! LOL
....
later all
Bob.....
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Old August 11th, 2022, 09:37 PM   #13
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Depending upon where you want to adjust AFR, ECU will fight you using O2-sensor feedback. O2-sensor can only register 14.7:1 and ECU will use that as target regardless of what you put in. That's closed-loop mode using O2-sensor feedback.

Above 80% throttle and RPMs, then O2-sensor is ignored and ECU uses only pre-programmed map values only. This is open-loop mode. THESE are the adjustments that you can change and see it take effect.

So if you want to change AFR in closed-loop operating zones, ECU's gonna override you. Won't see any changes as it's gonna target 14.7:1. So you'll need to disable O2-sensor for your changes to take effect.

I suspect all you really need to do is tweak accleration-enrichment to get effects you want. Clean up some of hesitation when you crack open throttle.
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Old August 12th, 2022, 12:44 AM   #14
Bob KellyIII
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Ahhh ! thank you Danno ! that is a bit of helpful information !
I had my bout with trying to fool a ECU when I was using browns gas in my toyota pickup.... it fought me every inch of the way ! and I was battling it to lean out the Fuel air ratio and it was a battle that I finally won..... but not entirely....I could not get it to stop richening it up over a month or so....
so every once in a while I would have to re set the ECU to go back to the standard settings and then do my best to lean it out again.....
I didn't have any ECU diagnostics at that time I attacked it on the physical level..... which I found out didn't work very well at all, I put a metal condom over the O2 sensor added a bypass to the mass air flow sensor and thought all was done ...but eventually it would change it on me regardless of those components ! it was very frustrating i did manage to get 45mpg most of the time with that truck so it was some what successful
....
So... if I am going to run into that type of a MESS again, I'll be smart and just stick to the acceleration function and power acceleration funtions....as I know how adamant the ECU can be !!!!!
....
I was hoping that changing the AFR base setting to say 13.62 instead of 14.62 i could do that and get away with it.... but if the O2 feedback is going to try and ramp it back up to 14.62 what is the point?
....
there are dozens of places that call for 14.62 AFR and even if I change each one I would never be sure I got them all where as in the Acceleration enrich function it would do that automatically when I change the throttle
.....
I was trying to find what the TPS setting is for and couldn't find anything about it....
i think the Acceleration enrich is the way to go but it is so extremely SHORT i need to lengthen it's active time.... and I haven't figured out how to do that !
HAHAHAHHA
....thanks my friend !
Bob.....
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Old August 15th, 2022, 12:13 AM   #15
Bob KellyIII
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Hay Danno.... I did a Idle speed patch and that worked great, so I got carried away and uploaded about 7 patches I have made and low and behold the
FAR when Idling says it is at 13.625 ! I haven't ridden it yet , I probably will tomorrow, but I had a few beers and I won't get on a bike after a few beers because I am a light weight when it comes to booze ! LOL
but.... I discovered a few things about HUD ECU Hacker you can upload your patches without uploading the main .Bin file.... each patch has to be uploaded separately and it's real easy to get your patch files confused ! I know because I uploaded an older patch file for the idle and it was way too slow ! I had it set to 500 RPM when it was warm..... I think it made it to 700 RPM before it died !
so I had to re upload a patch to the previous patch and got it back to a leisurely 1600 RPM instead of the faster 2000 RPM that it originally had !
I did 2 patches extra, one for acceleration enrich and one for Power enrich
I didn't change the power enrich table much just the first part that called for 14.125 AFR to 13.625 to be about the same ratio as all the rest of the changes I've made
.....
almost ALL the tables in the closed loop section ( where I do most of my riding) are based off of intake air pressure and the numbers are a precentage of something...which makes it really hard to modify anything in there !
....
but I am fairly confident I have changed almost everything in there that was at 14.625 to 13.625 making it Richer ! I wonder what my MPG will be like now HAHAHAHAH ! ( that is the least of my worries)
......

I'll let ya know how it runs when I ride the thing !
....(the Idle is still Wonky though it goes up and down alot, I think I will have to mess with the idle air to fix that.)


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Old August 15th, 2022, 07:33 AM   #16
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Does this bike use wideband O2-sensor? How is it measuring 13.625 AFR to report?
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Old August 15th, 2022, 04:36 PM   #17
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I don't know Danno.... and I don't know if it will actually stay that way or not
I made a file of it running after the mods and it took all of it to finally reach 13.625 AFR (on the dash board) about double or triple the time it used to take to reach 14.625
I don't know why that is yet, but something is off.... it might be fighting itself
some portion is still telling it to be at 14 and all I changed it telling it to be at 13 so it could be confused..... but I think, I'm fairly sure I got all references to the 14.625 AFR changed to 13.625....
looks like it's going to be a hot ride today.....it's already at 100 deg.
we'll see how it actually runs in a bit....
....
it is an MT05 not an MT05 2.5 or what ever the other one is...and I think it has a narrow band O2 sensor but I am not sure on that.
....
I really want to smoothe out that idle as it is really choppy on the graph
it stays within 100RPMs when it finally settles down , but doesn't stay at 1600RPM it goes up to 1700RPM and then drops to 1500RPM
which bugs me a bit. the Triumph doesn't do that near as much, nor does the Ninja.
...
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Old August 15th, 2022, 04:42 PM   #18
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Do you think the slowness to report could be because it is out of the O2 sensor's range now ? that would make sense !
....
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Old August 15th, 2022, 08:22 PM   #19
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Ok I just got back from about a 6 mile ride on a back road....
the bike preformed better in almost every respect as far as the engine goes , so I must'a done something right ! LOL
when giving it a handful of throttle it pulls alot harder than it did before
but that is a relative kind of assumption as it's been a while sense I've ridden it
but to me it does feel stronger.... especially around 5000RPM and up before it was sluggish there, acceleration was not super strong in that range but now it is noticeably stronger so overtaking and passing on the freeway should be alot better before accelerating to pass was quite slow so I think that portion has been fixed....
when I got home I shifted into neutral and put it on it's side stand and opened the gate and just let the bike idle there.... it did so with no problems right near 1500 to 1600 RPM. and the bike was at full operating tempiture. so that's good!
..... when crusing along the engine runs alot smoother than it used to
....
now I want to get that rough idle smoothed out and I'll be happy
....
when I first fired it up I was paying real close attention to how it was running
as I did not let it warm up before I started moving it out of the fenced yard
( it's a P.I.T.A to get that heavy beast in and out through that skinny gate!)
but it handled it fine even cold....
giving it throttle and load when it was cold didn't matter at all she started working from the start ..so that is a good sign !
I certainly cannot do that with the Ninja ! and the Triumph complains alot when I do that... but the RX4 just took it in stride and was ready to go from the start ! which is pirty cool to see that !!!
....
so I think all my effort has paid off and the bike is running better !
....only time will tell the TRUE story though I am sure !
....
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Old August 16th, 2022, 12:31 AM   #20
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Awesome work reprogramming that beast!!!

Which zones did you adjust? Highest-load mid-range ones?

Does software let you export maps as raw data-tables so you can draw pretty graphs?

For example, this is Bosch Motronic with multiple maps built-in so they can use one ECU for all regions and make just one model.

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Old August 16th, 2022, 02:52 AM   #21
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Ugh that's a good question buddy ! Just about everything about FAR !
I cut everything down in the bike from it's 14.625 FAR to 13.625 FAR I did everything from big tables to small graphs vurtually anything with 14.625 in it I changed it !!!!!
the most interesting ones were in the power Enrich area I think it was it had a huge graph table and went from zero to 8500 RPM and almost all were 14. something they did get progressively richer but not near enough in my book so I changed them to even richer ! some I got all the way to 12.5 but not too many of those a few I may have gotten to 12.0 but that was at 8500 RPM which I'll never reach ! LOL
....
yah I can make a liniar graph of the bike running but I don't think a 3D graph like you showed.... i dunno i might be able too LOL
but I am really impressed with the way it picks up now you need to give that bike alot of throttle because it goes off the throttle position and that is diferent than a carbed bike and I'm still not used to it.... usually on my Triumph 1/4 turn is all it takes to really haul ass on this bike it hakes about half throttle to feel the engine trying as hard as it can ! it's not that the power isn't available it's just that it's a long way on the turn of the throttle !
on the Triumph every bump can cause a big acceleration but the RX4 doesn't do that very often and setting the cruse speed is easier on the RX4 because of that the Triumph is a real touchy cruse any movement on the throttle at all is going to cause you to slow down alot or speed up alot it's got a touchy throttle !
I can make a Bin file now with all my patches in it for anyone that owns a RX4 and wants it free of charge I doubt you'ed pass a smog check but not many states check bikes ! ( speak up if you want it !)
it's kind'a strange how the maker of HUD ECU HACKER does things you do not modify the bin file until you upload the patch , then it's part of the bin file
which is kind'a good actually as I can see what ones I have changed and what ones I haven't (first I have to look through my patch files and see if I have one with the EXACT same name or not to see if I did one for it already)
But that isn't too bad... I learned real fast to name my patch files carefully because of that....
I was working on it a bit ago and doing a cupple of large AFR sheets that took me forever and I found that I had already made one that was half done so I just loaded it and finished it so it's now ready for the Open loop patch !
( that's the one that got down to 12.500 AFR ) but I haven't put it inthere yet
I don't get to the open loop very often, infact I never came close on my ride today I just putted to the end of Hoy road and back taking in the view and laughing at the calves that looked so shocked to see a motorcycle on their road ! LOL
but the closed loop I did the last patch and i could tell it was alot stronger running
the Acceleration enrich doesn't have much in it that I can change
but the power enrich does it has 2 big graph sheets and I finished them tonight.... so that might be another eye opener who knows !
....
However I could not find how to cut back the air at idle so the idle would settle down for some reason they alow way too much air in the Chinese bikes
( others have complained about this as well and this guy found that halfing the amount of air at idle cured his rough idle.... so I was trying to find it to no avail ..... that's what I started doing tonight, but got derailed by the AFR Graph sheet that was half done..lol

Burr it's getting cold in here I got all the windows open ! LOL time to go close them all !
later buddy !
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Old August 17th, 2022, 01:51 AM   #22
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Man I cannot find anything that controls the Idle..... the IAC section is very criptic
and has a section in it that confuses the HE*L out of me.... it's a short one line chart that
goes off throttle position (of all things) which makes no sense to me.... it's idling there is no throttle input so why the heck is there a throttle selection chart for the Idle in there?
the IAC = Idle Air Control and there is 2 sections one for the PIC or something like that and the normal one with 23 entries in it's folder has that strange graph off of the throttle position it also has the Pintle Min and max settings Max being 255 and Min being 4..... but from what I can tell the idle is open all the way to 8000 RPM which makes no sense to me at all it does progressively slowly close the Idle air circuit when it reaches that RPM but in mid range it is a long way open.... I would have thought that if you had the capabilies to turn off the idle circuit the smart thing to do would be to turn it off completely after 3000 RPM or something like that ...why leave it open?
are they supplementing the fuel to the injector .... that just doesn't make too much sense ....
I'd think having the idle circuit turned off completely above 2500~3000 RPM would be smart as it wouldn't interfere with the AFR that is taking over the work and your FAR wouldn't spike one way or the other..... but they keep it active throughout the engines run time ! ..... so you have 2 things that are effecting the AFR instead ...makes no sense!
.....
it's like they are mimicking a carburetor and have not progressed beyond that yet because Yah that is what a carb does but you have the capabilities to correct that now..... and they haven't done that !
.....
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Old August 18th, 2022, 02:41 AM   #23
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I watched that video again and stopped it on the part where he solved his idle problem and I went to mine and changed it like that.... I'll put it in there some time soon and see if that cures the rough idle ! ....
what can it hurt Eh ? HAHA
....
Bob......

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Old August 18th, 2022, 08:38 PM   #24
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Famous last words....


You can always revert to stock if things get to far out of whack!
Did you download bone-stock OEM image?
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Old August 19th, 2022, 01:56 AM   #25
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Yep first thing I did ! .....and I have it saved in several different places and even on a usb drive !
.....
it turns out however that I have been doing the patch process ALL WRONG
i can make a patch easy now, no problem but all the patches you want to change cannot be on a seperate file they have to be in ONE file
i found out that because I changed the idle patch then later went back in a different patch and changed the AFR ratio.... ( it did not have the idle patch in it) so when I put in the AFR patch the old changes I did to the idle were erased and it was back to stock
....
I went through it and did 15 separate patches and the only one that took effect was the last one on the list .... so after pulling my hair out for a while I got my kid to help me.... and He figured it out fairly fast...your doing it wrong dad !
all the patches have to be in the same file because it over writes with the information of the stock bin file and it only patches the ones that are patched
in that file the rest will be the stock bin file....
so I had to contemplate how I could get 12 patches into one patch file
and my Kid figured that out real quick too zip zip and the kid was done !
and showed me all the patches were indeed on ONE patch file.....
we up loaded that to the bike and then down loaded a fresh ECU Flash file and got the whole kit and kabootle and then came inside and checked it
this time EVERYTHING was changed.....like it should have been !!!!
.....
I dunno what I'd do without My Kid ! LOL
....
so anyway Now that everything is in the ECU that I originally tried to put in there, but kept erasing with every new patch.... i will take it for a run and see what it's like now...... I expect it will be even better now LOL
....
I guess you are supposed to make all your patches then ADD them to just one patch so it has all of them , then up load it
....if you don't do that it just takes you back to ground zero and the only patch that is changed is your last one

it's kind'a weird but it does make sense though I am not sure I understand all I know about it yet ! HAHAHAHHA
....
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Old August 19th, 2022, 12:44 PM   #26
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Yeah, stock ECUs tend to download and upload entire image file at a time.

Only aftermarket ECUs let you modify setting in the ECU itself. Changes take effect right away. Then you have option to save it or not depending upon whether you like that change. Very convenient and fast. Some of them even have live dashboard. It'll show you 3D view of fuel and ignition maps drawn like I show above. Then a red indicator dot will move around showing you exact area of map currently being used. Then you know exact area of map to adjust.
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Old August 27th, 2022, 09:28 AM   #27
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Well, I did learn a few things... you can add patch files into a single master patch file and then just add that to the ECU which get's rid of the mutable patch file problem that will wipe out the previous patches problem I was having
because when doing a patch it wipes the ECU clean and puts back in the ECU map .bin that you have selected then adds the patch.....
...so that problem is solved
I started messing with the spark because I had a unsteady running of the engine at 4500 RPM it would raise and lower in RPM every few seconds
and once I got into it it was indeed a big can of worms....
the main chart it uses for spark is a total mess in stock form it has the spark being advanced to over 50degrees in many places !!!! I came to the conclusion that they did that for emissions, but it makes no sense mechanically to me !
i started changing the spark advance chart bringing everything above 42 degrees to 42 degrees and there was a bunch of changes to do....
but in so doing I started getting this uneasy feeling that I was messing it up ! not knowing why they did this and why to such extremes bothers me alot
the max advance was set at 70 degrees advanced ! that is rediculas and should never be put onto an engine in my opinion, so why is it there ???
the more I messed with it the less confident I became and I finally chickened out and just erased everything and put it back to stock and only changed the Idle speed and left it at that !
.....
to me it is very obvious that the ECU is programed very poorly straight from the factory.....more attention was put on emissions than HP in every instance
hence the Running so lean.... but there are thousands of these bikes out there and they don't have any history of melting the pistons so I guess stock is ok in the long run.
I didn't have any problem getting the ECU to keep the 13.625 FAR that I wanted it to be instead of the 14.625 FAR so that worked but in so doing that the Speed began to be unsteady at 4500 RPM (I THINK because of the spark, but I am not positive.)
so instead of tempting fate on a brand new bike I decided to take it back to stock all but slowing down the fast idle speed.
.....
so that is where I sit now
.....
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Old August 27th, 2022, 12:43 PM   #28
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Good idea, I'm sure lots of time had been spent optimising those settings @ factory. You need some diagnostic tools with datalogging to really know what engine is doing.

Ignition-advance of 50-60 BTDC in mid-range partial-throttle is perfectly fine. One of advantages of 3D mapping. If you look at higher-load cells at same RPM, you'll see less advance. Then when you're on edge of map at WOT, those values will be more familiar since it's same as 2D based on RPM only.

For example, here's large 4v engine with 4.0" bore using 87-oct (smaller bore can use more advance):

Idle has about 10-degree BTDC ignition.

At low loads and speeds increase (to right), you get maximum advance into 40-degree range.

Under WOT (left back wall), advance starts @ 18 in low RPMs and actually drops in mid-range where VE and BMEP is highest at torque peak. Then picks up to about 24 BTDC at redline.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; August 27th, 2022 at 02:55 PM.
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Old August 27th, 2022, 01:59 PM   #29
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Yah I figured I'ed be smart and not shoot myself in the foot sense I have very little knowledge on this new technology....and they are very obviously doing stuff that I know nothing about !!!! so rather than regret it I decided to put it back to original and just change the idle ! LOL
......
so I went out and tore into my Logan 922 lathe and took out my handy dandy new micrometers and measured the shaft of a gear that wobbles fairly badly
and I've found that the shaft is wore down by 20 thousandths.... so replacing the bushing isn't going to help... so I either make a new one ( if I trust myself to be accurate enough,,,which I don't) or live with it till I can buy a new one
..... I could make the shaft easy enough, but putting the short threads on the end and the woodruff key slot in it are enough to put me off !
I think I can do the threading because I have the nut that goes on the end... just make it to fit.... been there done that several times already... but the woodruff key is something I need a real good mill for and my hodge podge mill isn't up to that task even IF I had the cutter ...which I don't ...
so I put it back together came inside and went to the logan actuator site only to find I can't find any parts there now they say their site is under construction.... but right now no parts lists work... so it's a future project to be sure !
....
so so far today I've struck out on almost everything I have tried to do....
i think that means it's time for a nap ! HAHAHAHHA
....
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