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View Poll Results: What do you think about Zero SR?
I will most definitely be getting that as my next motorcycle 1 1.89%
I love it, but it's just way too much money 20 37.74%
I hate it because it's too much money.. 6 11.32%
I don't see myself driving an electric motorcycle anytime soon 17 32.08%
I just hate it 3 5.66%
Not really sure.. (maybe?) 6 11.32%
I already have one! 0 0%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 22nd, 2014, 09:27 PM   #1
Brian
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Zero SR... would you buy?

What are your opinions on the new Zero SR from Zero Motorcycles?

For me, I think it's way way way too overpriced. I can buy a NEW Ford Fiesta, Kia, or a Nissan and STILL have enough to get an R6 or a new 300 on top of that. Too much of the the thrill and sound of a screaming engine makes up my riding for me, letting you know when to shift, well there's no need to shift on this bike, it's automatic. The technology implemented into the bike is cool and all, but heated grips? Next think you know they are going to build a motorcycle with 4 wheels surrounded by a metal construction to keep us further out of the elements, oh wait that's a car.

'S' Model starts at $13k
'SR' Model (more power) starts at $17k

So what are your thoughts?

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old May 22nd, 2014, 09:28 PM   #2
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nope, i am a sportbike kind of guy, only thing i like naked is my wife.
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Old May 22nd, 2014, 09:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbinker View Post
nope, i am a sportbike kind of guy, only thing i like naked is my wife.
Hehehe Also notice how in the poll I left "driving" an electric motorcycle instead of 'riding' it.
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Old May 22nd, 2014, 10:30 PM   #4
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Old May 22nd, 2014, 11:55 PM   #5
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Hating on an electric motorcycle for being electric is the same as hating on a 250 because it's a 250, or any other thing. You don't have to like it but plenty of people seem to like electric bikes, and cars for that matter. That being said, I don't plan on giving up the sound and feel of an engine beneath me any time soon
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 03:53 AM   #6
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 04:18 AM   #7
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for that kind of cash.... not a chance in hell.
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 04:41 AM   #8
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I love the idea of an electric motorcycle, and yes, I would love to own one, but I have other priorities in my life that keep me from dropping 13K-17K on one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
The technology implemented into the bike is cool and all, but heated grips?
Let me ask you this... would you ride around in Boston in the middle of January without heated grips? I have them on my bike and it greatly extends the riding season because the first thing to get cold is your hands. As long as there's no salt on the road, I can ride. I have ridden down to about 25 degrees with no issues. Is that "protecting from the elements" or keeping a desire to ride alive despite temperatures? When you lock your bike up in November, think of me. I'm still riding.
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 04:57 AM   #9
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The price/gas savings don't match up yet. I can get a Ninja 300 for 6k and get 60mpg. It would take me years of riding to make up the 7k difference in price.

Not to mention the battery will need replaced much sooner than a Ninja will need a new engine.

And I'd miss having a clutch to work.

I'm interested in electric bikes but they aren't there yet. I'll be more interested when they are 9k new and have more range.
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 05:06 AM   #10
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Well they do post that the battery should last around 200,000 miles. It even comes with a 5 year 100,000 mile warranty.

Still, how do you charge this thing on the road? You better get home before that battery dies.
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 05:30 AM   #11
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Right now, no. Not enough practicality and I like sportbikes.

What would make me change my mind is price competitiveness, driven either by outright incentives or economics.

The math is simple. Purchase price + fuel + maintenance + insurance + registration = total cost of ownership. Even with the super-low cost of electricity vs. gasoline, the numbers don't work out in favor of an electric bike.

Plus there's the cost of battery replacement, which the elephant in the room that never seems to get addressed. What is the cost of a new battery pack? How long will it REALLY last? (I have a computer battery that can only hold a charge for 20 minutes. It still works, so it's "good," but it's not that useful.) Will the lack of typical internal combustion maintenance offset the cost?

We don't have real numbers for this. But here's information about the all-electric Nissan Leaf -- note that the quotes come from Nissan itself, and they're not that encouraging.

Quote:
In a recent Auto Express report, Nissan UK’s vice president said the LEAF’s powertrain system consists of 48 separate lithium-ion modules, and each one would cost an owner £404 ($680 US) to replace – totalling £19,392 ($32,646 US) for all of them.

Nissan has also said the battery range of the current Nissan LEAF will drop by at least a fifth in around five years,

“Our tests suggest that the battery will be at 80 per cent capacity after five years, depending on charging and usage.”

However, a spokesman for Nissan said,

“It’s unlikely all 48 modules would need to be replaced. The cost of a conventional engine and transmission built up from individually sourced parts would be similarly high.”
So Nissan - which has a vested interest in painting a rosy picture - is trying to compare the cost of a new battery pack to an engine built up from individual parts, which is pure bat$hit. NOBODY does that. Even the cost of replacing ONE of the 48 modules is considerable.

The Leaf has a 24 kWh battery. The Zero SR comes standard with an 11.4 kWh battery pack, and there's an optional Power Tank ($2,495) that adds another 2.8 kWh.

Let's assume that the battery cost per kWh is the same. Leaf: $32,646/24= $1350/kWh, give or take. The SR's standard battery would thus cost more than $15,000. I doubt it's that high, but this gives you a sense of scale.

I don't know if the Zero's battery is one unit or modular, but the point remains... it will wear out just like your phone, computer or GoPro battery. And when you find out what it's going to cost to replace it, you'd better be sitting down.

In five years look at the used market for these. I'll bet a lot of 'em will be up for sale... with the original battery packs.
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 06:25 AM   #12
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I think the range is fine for commuting for me at least, but im waiting for the price to come down. Like any new technology (even though its not "new"), the prices will drop since more companies are starting to make electric bikes that are desirable. Id say in 5 years i may look into one for commuting, but right now i have no reason to buy one. Hell, maybe in 5 years ill be back to the 250 for commuting instead.
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 06:33 AM   #13
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Right now, electric doesn't have the range for what I want to do and the price of such new technology is too high.

But would I want a bike that runs on something other than gas? Heck yeah! Same as in my truck, having an alternative fuel source is something worth looking forward to.

If the range were there and if I had a guarenteed means of recharging it, I would find a way of suporting the industry by buying one. Not there yet.
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 06:33 AM   #14
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For 8K and under yes, out side of that no.
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 06:34 AM   #15
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I've said this before, but in order for EV to take off, batteries need to be leased.

Electric cars and motorcycles would be much more enticing to the average consumer if you paid a small fee every month/year for battery replacement/maintenance.

Sure, you can charge your battery at home if you want, but if you're on the road, pull into the "battery station" and have them swap your batteries. In a matter of minutes you're back out on the road. They maintain and charge the battery you swapped out, then give it to another customer. As it ages, they recycle the material into a new battery.

It won't happen until manufacturers agree on (or an agency standardizes) a modular battery system that is quickly accessible. I see this as being easier to achieve on a motorcycle than a car, but still possible on both. It'd greatly extend range to the point that there is no difference between gas and electric, except maybe 2-3 minutes longer at a "battery station" than a gas station.
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 06:36 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfox View Post
I've said this before, but in order for EV to take off, batteries need to be leased.

Electric cars and motorcycles would be much more enticing to the average consumer if you paid a small fee every month/year for battery replacement/maintenance.

Sure, you can charge your battery at home if you want, but if you're on the road, pull into the "battery station" and have them swap your batteries. In a matter of minutes you're back out on the road. They maintain and charge the battery you swapped out, then give it to another customer. As it ages, they recycle the material into a new battery.

It won't happen until manufacturers agree on (or an agency standardizes) a modular battery system that is quickly accessible. I see this as being easier to achieve on a motorcycle than a car, but still possible on both.
At what point does all this battery swapping become more costly than just paying for gas?

Not saying you couldn't make it work though.
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 06:38 AM   #17
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I love everything about Zero Motorcycles. And BRAMMO and Mission. I think electric is where it's at. That said, I'm a college student. No way in hell can I afford that right now.
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 06:39 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfox View Post
I've said this before, but in order for EV to take off, batteries need to be leased.

Electric cars and motorcycles would be much more enticing to the average consumer if you paid a small fee every month/year for battery replacement/maintenance.

Sure, you can charge your battery at home if you want, but if you're on the road, pull into the "battery station" and have them swap your batteries. In a matter of minutes you're back out on the road. They maintain and charge the battery you swapped out, then give it to another customer. As it ages, they recycle the material into a new battery.

It won't happen until manufacturers agree on (or an agency standardizes) a modular battery system that is quickly accessible. I see this as being easier to achieve on a motorcycle than a car, but still possible on both. It'd greatly extend range to the point that there is no difference between gas and electric, except maybe 2-3 minutes longer at a "battery station" than a gas station.

This is essentially what the Telsa has for a business plan. Granted i dont know if anyone else if trying to standardize with them, but on their site they have this exact scenario. Pull up to a "station" and sensors and arms under the car remove the battery and replace with a fully charged one under 2 minutes. You just pay a fee as you would if you went to a gas station. They also will have their own chargin stations throughout in case your running to the mall for an hour or something where you could leave it on charge. Awesome stuff, but they i can see they starting with low prices to entice people ot make the switch, then raising the cost just like gas prices now. Not that the Tesla is cheap by any means....
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 06:52 AM   #19
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Right now it's about two or three times the price of a new 300.
That, and the range is still only 70 miles or so before you need to recharge it.

If an electric motorcycle is to replace my gas burner, it has to have equivalent range and price.
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 06:55 AM   #20
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no thanks.. not driving an electric or hybrid cage either.. I like internal combustion far too much.
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 07:34 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdogg2077 View Post
At what point does all this battery swapping become more costly than just paying for gas?

Not saying you couldn't make it work though.
Since I'm not in the business of electric or gas vehicles, I can only speculate. I'd imagine the cost for this "battery swapping" lease would be roughly equivalent to the cost of gas. I only base that on a relatively expensive replacement cost, and relatively cheap recharge. Divide replacement costs over many years (presumably the batteries will last longer with regular maintenance) and take into account the large scale recycling, I'd imagine monthly costs would be equivalent to buying gas.

At this point in history, I do not see electric powered personal transportation as a money saving endeavor, it's mostly to make a statement and to help push us away from using limited resources to power our vehicles. Production of the batteries and the electricity that powers these vehicles is far from being "eco-friendly".

That's the reason I would like an e-motorcycle. Unless consumers create a demand for non-resource-consuming vehicles, the technology will stagnate. It doesn't take everyone driving electric vehicles to push the technology forward, but it does take some. There's obviously enough demand for electric cars that Tesla exists. While that demand exists, Tesla will continue pushing the envelop of what an electric car can do. Some day it will become mainstream. The people buying now are just the early adopters. Be a part of the movement, or follow the sheep...


that said... I have other priorities in my life right now (like buying a house, raising a kid) that prevent me from being in a place financially to afford an e-motorcycle. As much as I wish I could buy one now, I will have to wait until I'm in a different financial situation, or the prices come down. Once again though, as the technology develops (because of early adopters) the prices will drop.
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 07:47 AM   #22
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The Zreo SR or a Lightning Aion will be my next bike. I do not think I will need a new bike for a few years, but you never know. I love my 300
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 08:01 AM   #23
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I forget which company made an electric bike with a conventional transmission, but I'd get one of those. For me a part of the pleasure in riding a moto is kicking up and down gears.
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 08:13 AM   #24
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I think it's a pretty cool moto but like most of the other posters its too expensive for me to consider getting one at theis point. But the advances made on electric motos like this will pave the way for future bikes that will be more price and range competitive with ICE motos.
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 12:39 PM   #25
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I forget which company made an electric bike with a conventional transmission, but I'd get one of those. For me a part of the pleasure in riding a moto is kicking up and down gears.
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Old May 24th, 2014, 03:27 AM   #26
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I'd definitely not be opposed to having one of these, or an Empulse in the Garage! For a commuter or a short blast, an electric bike would be awesome and imho electric mobility will be driven by bikes first anyway, and not cars.

Virtually no maintenance, extremely low cost of ownership (tax excempts, insurance bonus for green vehicles, some pretty extensive governemental purchasing help/incentives here too) would make this a great machine for getting around.
The novelty value of riding electric adds as well.

The often cited initial buying price is of course the biggest obstacle to overcome. As adouglas said, when calculating the total cost of ownership over the bike's lifetime a gasoline-powered bike still looks better, at least for now.

Also considering the emotional factors - after all on a bike we love what some people would describe as noisy, smelly and vibey. Personally I like both the mechanical beating heart of a combustion engine, and the space age whine of the electric.

So, would I get an electric bike? I guess my answer would be yes, if
- I'd thave possibility to charge in the garage (currently not possible)
- The price was lower to make it more competitive with my 250/650 in terms of toc
- It would not be my only motorcycle.

All that said, it's absolutely mindblowing how far things have come in a few years. I believe for sure that the electric revolution of mobility will come from the bikes and not the cars. Just looking at the latest releases, in just a few years electric bikes have become almost equal to classic motorcycles, and in the next decade might just leave them in the dust completely...
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Old May 24th, 2014, 06:12 AM   #27
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Until range & recharge times are comparable to proper bikes it's a no go.
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Old May 26th, 2014, 03:05 AM   #28
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Old May 26th, 2014, 05:17 AM   #29
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Why buy that when THIS exists?
40,000 vs 14,000
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Old May 26th, 2014, 05:26 AM   #30
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It would be fun as a commuter, but it would be hard to ride around the world on an electric bike.
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Old May 26th, 2014, 05:59 AM   #31
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40,000 vs 14,000
Details... Details...
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Old May 26th, 2014, 06:10 AM   #32
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Perfect track bike.

Except might have to sit out the final 2 sessions of the day though.
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Old May 26th, 2014, 07:06 AM   #33
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Perfect track bike.

Except might have to sit out the final 2 sessions of the day though.
I believe you can quick charge between sessions... Also I highly doubt it will give many miles at track pace... :dunno:
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Old May 26th, 2014, 05:21 PM   #34
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Let me ask you this... would you ride around in Boston in the middle of January without heated grips? I have them on my bike and it greatly extends the riding season because the first thing to get cold is your hands. As long as there's no salt on the road, I can ride. I have ridden down to about 25 degrees with no issues. Is that "protecting from the elements" or keeping a desire to ride alive despite temperatures? When you lock your bike up in November, think of me. I'm still riding.
It's just too much being stripped away from a motorcycle that I would like. You're already outside, so heated grips would just feel weird to me.
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Old May 26th, 2014, 05:30 PM   #35
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It's just too much being stripped away from a motorcycle that I would like. You're already outside, so heated grips would just feel weird to me.
I am guessing you do not ride much in the winter.
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Old May 26th, 2014, 05:33 PM   #36
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I am guessing you do not ride much in the winter.
I don't, but the coldest I've been outside on my bike was around 30-35, yeah the wind does build up quick and heated grips would be great.. I don't think I would want to ride anytime when it's that cold again, another reason why I'm going south for school
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Old May 26th, 2014, 05:38 PM   #37
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I don't, but the coldest I've been outside on my bike was around 30-35, yeah the wind does build up quick and heated grips would be great.. I don't think I would want to ride anytime when it's that cold again, another reason why I'm going south for school
I like the cold. I do not have heated grips but I have no problem with folks who do. Or folks who don't like the cold.
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Old May 26th, 2014, 05:58 PM   #38
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I like the cold. I do not have heated grips but I have no problem with folks who do. Or folks who don't like the cold.
I could not see myself or anyone riding around in the winter from where I am from and it's not even THAT bad.
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Old May 26th, 2014, 06:32 PM   #39
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Well the bike obviously isn't marketed to you. You are trying to do Ferarri math: Why should I buy a Ferrari when I could buy 27 minivans? We all know how that ends for anyone who can actually buy a Ferarri.

The bike isn't for you, much like a Tesla isn't for anyone who can only afford a Kia.
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Old May 26th, 2014, 06:39 PM   #40
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And I'd bet that you've never used heated grips before either. No need to talk **** about something you've never tried. Next thing you'll tell us that gsxr's suck because that's what all the squids ride.
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