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Old October 13th, 2014, 09:00 PM   #1
joecool
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Power commander 5

Hey guys,

I have a 2013 ninja 300 with two bro full exhaust and a larger sprocket.

I feel that I lost a lot of power and torque. Bike is running lean also i think. I installed a PCV with the two bro map but still no difference.

Any opinions on what it can be?

Thxs

Joe
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Old October 13th, 2014, 09:32 PM   #2
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I call these types of maps as 'canned' maps. They never give you maximum results. On the contrary, they sometimes create more problems than providing a solution.

The fuel map needs to be fine tuned for your bike and needs to take into account various parameters including range of barometric pressures, temperatures, fuel octane, etc.

If you want maximum results from your setup you need to take your bike to a good tuning shop which has a good dyno and a experienced dyno operator. The other option is contact DynoJet and ask them to tweek a fuel map specially for you (however, this will not give you max results).
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Old October 14th, 2014, 01:01 AM   #3
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Old October 14th, 2014, 01:22 AM   #4
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For maximum results you must change the parameters inside the ecu itself, everything else is only the half way.
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Old October 14th, 2014, 03:07 AM   #5
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^^^ Agreed, but then he already has a PC 5 and can't be expected to bin it.
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Old October 14th, 2014, 05:07 AM   #6
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The PCV for the ninja 300 controls timing as well so it will do just as good of a job as a ECU flash.

To the OP - Just like what Patrik said those maps most of the time are way off. They are made in a Dyno room in California at cali altitude.

A few options:

1. Get a dyno tune
2. Get the auto tune module for the PCV - they work great
3. Get a wideband o2 data logger and log your air fuel and tune your self
4. Ball park and guesstimate the tune, if you have a good enough feel of the bike you can add or subtract fuel here or there and use your (butt dyno) but I never really recommend this.

Cost wise - for $200 you can get the auto tune module, dyno tunes run 200-350 and data loggers are $225-$375

Just my 2 cents!
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Old October 14th, 2014, 06:50 AM   #7
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Any chance what he is feeling is simply the gearing change. I know my bike felt like it lost a good bit of its sack when geared the bike to make highway travel more tolerable.
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Old October 14th, 2014, 06:52 AM   #8
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Wow! I spent almost $300 on this power commander, now I have to pay $250-300 to tune it or get a autotune! that suxs, whats the point of this unit then, the autotune should be already fabricated into the PCV.

Does anyone have this set up? if so what are your experiences with the canned map?


Thxs
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Old October 14th, 2014, 06:54 AM   #9
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Quote:
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Any chance what he is feeling is simply the gearing change. I know my bike felt like it lost a good bit of its sack when geared the bike to make highway travel more tolerable.

Did you feel loss of torque during acceleration? this is my issue. Thxs
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Old October 14th, 2014, 09:41 AM   #10
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when you install new sprocket to bring the gearing up, produces a smaller numerical final drive ratio. This reduces the effective thrust at the wheel for a given speed. This will feel as though you have "lost" torque in acceleration.
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Old October 14th, 2014, 10:39 AM   #11
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Do you guys think he would of been better off with a juice box? Or would the problems still remain
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Old October 14th, 2014, 11:50 AM   #12
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Juice box, PCV, Bazazz, MicroTuner, etc all are going to have a similar result (some better than others) but they are stock conservative maps meant to fit a wide range of locations/condition/etc bikes with the upgrades. To truly get the most out of them, all will need to be tune for the specific bike.
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Old October 14th, 2014, 02:16 PM   #13
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I changed the sprocket at the same time as i installed the PCV. Maybe it is the sprocket that made me loose torque on acceleration. ?
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Old October 14th, 2014, 03:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somchai View Post
For maximum results you must change the parameters inside the ecu itself, everything else is only the half way.
how true Roland!! few people know that, less are capable of doing it themselves (and doing it at a tuner would cost, A LOT), one or two out of hundreds would be able to fully exploit the potential and fine tune to the point to make a noticeable difference compared to the piggyback...which people have trouble programming anyway !! still much easier to do (and cheaper, eventually, since for evey tiny mod, maps need to be altered accordingly) for most tuners but also owners a bit experienced with that kind of stuff...
and to be honest even that could be called "half way" compared to programming all the performance parameters of an engine with a "blank" ECU system like a MOTEC unit...
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Old October 14th, 2014, 03:58 PM   #15
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I changed the sprocket at the same time as i installed the PCV. Maybe it is the sprocket that made me loose torque on acceleration. ?
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highly probable if it is a less teeth rear sprocket and/or a larger front...
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Old October 14th, 2014, 05:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
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I changed the sprocket at the same time as i installed the PCV. Maybe it is the sprocket that made me loose torque on acceleration. ?
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What did you change your gearing to?
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Old October 14th, 2014, 08:15 PM   #17
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I believe its a 10 tooth front sprocket
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Old October 14th, 2014, 08:25 PM   #18
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I had the dealer install it, i know its a smaller sprocket than stock, maybe not 10 but 13? Ill check later tonight
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Old October 14th, 2014, 09:50 PM   #19
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Quote:
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I believe its a 10 tooth front sprocket
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A 10 tooth front sprocket .... Stock is 14.
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Old October 15th, 2014, 07:23 AM   #20
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A 10 tooth front sprocket .... Stock is 14.
lol, I am not sure you could even fit a 10 and have the chain wrap properly. I would pop the cover and take a look at what is actually on there. Going to a 13T front sprocket would take you from a 3 to a 3.23 ratio on the final drive. That would not likely result in a feeling of torque loss during acceleration. Going the other way would. The 3.23 would increase thrust at the rear wheel for a given speed. Interestingly if you went from a 14T to a 13T you are actually taking the 300 gearing close the what stock 250R come with (3.21) and the 300 has the equivalent of the 15/45 setup most 250 guys go to stock lol.
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Old October 16th, 2014, 01:27 PM   #21
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Why dont you take the pcv off and get a AreaP tuner? They actually adjust the tune to what you have on your bike and your area before they send it to you. And you can have them adjust it afterwards i believe.
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Old October 16th, 2014, 01:32 PM   #22
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That's basically the same thing as power command we r maps. There are no perfect mail in maps. The pcv is probably the best piggy back unit for fuel injection BUT like every other tuner it needs to be fine tuned for maximum results.
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Old October 16th, 2014, 01:58 PM   #23
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I have a 15T front sprocket, so is this why i feel less torque/power?
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Old October 16th, 2014, 02:02 PM   #24
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I have a 15T front sprocket, so is this why i feel less torque/power?
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I would bet money that is more of the difference your feeling than anything else yes.
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Old October 16th, 2014, 02:06 PM   #25
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Yeah I'd say that's what your feeling. You loose acceleration going to a larger front tooth.
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Old October 16th, 2014, 04:06 PM   #26
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Wow cool thxs guys, I'll still get my bike tuned next summer. I added this gear so I don't have to shift so often and cruise a little better on the high way, oh well! It's on now I won't take it off. Thxs for your help!!
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Old October 16th, 2014, 04:31 PM   #27
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I'm sure your MPG will like it.

Joe, if you have any other buddies who have a Autotune unit on their bike you could always borrow it to make a solid map ;-)
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Old October 17th, 2014, 05:03 AM   #28
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I'm sure your MPG will like it.

Joe, if you have any other buddies who have a Autotune unit on their bike you could always borrow it to make a solid map ;-)

Cool! Thats a good idea, thxs.

I should buy one and rent it out lol!!
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