ninjette.org

Go Back   ninjette.org > 2013 - 2017 Ninja 300 > 2013 - 2017 Ninja 300 Tech Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 12th, 2018, 08:57 PM   #1
JA-Moo
ninjette.org member
 
JA-Moo's Avatar
 
Name: John
Location: Rio Rancho
Join Date: Aug 2012

Motorcycle(s): many kawasaki 2 stroke triples and a 250R now. Well no more 250R, 2013 300 now

Posts: 146
Is the Power commander what I'm looking for?

On the 2013 300 I picked up, it has a Delkevic slip on, and I am at 5500 ft. of altitude. Thick black soot in the pipe. Will a power commander be able to compensate? Or is there something better? I'm a carb guy, so totally lost here.
JA-Moo is offline   Reply With Quote




Old May 13th, 2018, 12:14 AM   #2
SteveL
old git
 
SteveL's Avatar
 
Name: Steve
Location: Geneve Switzerland
Join Date: Mar 2009

Motorcycle(s): BMW K1300S

Posts: 479
The power commander allows you to change all the fuelling parameters.
The software gives you a spread sheet with RPM down the side and the fuel values across, you can change all of these values.
The problem is if you have no way of measuring the results of the changes you have made you could end up with damage to the motor.

Steve
__________________________________________________
Some mistakes are too much fun to make only once.
SteveL is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 13th, 2018, 12:23 AM   #3
JA-Moo
ninjette.org member
 
JA-Moo's Avatar
 
Name: John
Location: Rio Rancho
Join Date: Aug 2012

Motorcycle(s): many kawasaki 2 stroke triples and a 250R now. Well no more 250R, 2013 300 now

Posts: 146
IE dyno time........
JA-Moo is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 13th, 2018, 06:24 AM   #4
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
I would have though a good FI system would compensate for altitude automatically.
Triple Jim is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 13th, 2018, 07:15 AM   #5
JA-Moo
ninjette.org member
 
JA-Moo's Avatar
 
Name: John
Location: Rio Rancho
Join Date: Aug 2012

Motorcycle(s): many kawasaki 2 stroke triples and a 250R now. Well no more 250R, 2013 300 now

Posts: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
I would have though a good FI system would compensate for altitude automatically.
Good ones do.....LOL Others look like they need power commanders.


JA-Moo is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 13th, 2018, 09:00 AM   #6
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
Maybe one of the sensors is not working.
Triple Jim is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 13th, 2018, 09:13 AM   #7
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Something is wrong, fix that instead of trying to compensate.

- Measure vacuum at MAP sensor with warmed up engine
- check for intake leaks around boots, hoses, clamps
- measure impedance of air-temp sensor
- measure impedance of engine-coolant sensor

Make sure someone hasn’t wired in one of those stupid pots that lets you “adjust” engine coolant sensor and changing data about operating conditions that’s sent to ECU, thus tricking ECU into injecting more fuel. Very few EFI systems need more fuel, they tend to tend too rich for safety. Toyotas are worse with 10:1 AFRs in high-end, wasting tonnes of fuel and power.

Only use PC to tune and lean out mixtures to optimum 13.5:1 once you’ve got system working perfectly stock (yours isn’t). Here what stock 300 AFR curve looks like, too rich in high-end at 12:1. Leaning it out results in +4% more power without any mods needed!


Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; May 13th, 2018 at 10:50 PM.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 13th, 2018, 02:45 PM   #8
JA-Moo
ninjette.org member
 
JA-Moo's Avatar
 
Name: John
Location: Rio Rancho
Join Date: Aug 2012

Motorcycle(s): many kawasaki 2 stroke triples and a 250R now. Well no more 250R, 2013 300 now

Posts: 146
Thanks Dan!
JA-Moo is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 13th, 2018, 10:47 PM   #9
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
You're welcome!

I also forgot to mention that while older flow-based load-sensing algorithms such as AFM or MAF requires separate altitude sensor to make adjustments, MAP-sensing does it automatically!! At sea-level under WOT, MAP sensor would register about 100kpa and at 5500ft, it would measure around 80kpa and send that to ECU. The ECU would know that there's less air going into engine and will meter out the correct amount of fuel anyway.

At idle and partial-throttle, due to restriction of throttle-plate, intake-manifold will be under vacuum condtions and that won't vary as much with altitude. MAP sensor should be registring around 33-36kpa at idle. Verify that with vaccum gauge with T-connection at MAP-sensor nipple.

Even with carb, the 20% difference in fuel requirements wouldn't cause that much soot on your exhaust. Something's off.

If your bike is CA model, it will have an oxygen sensor. Make sure it's plugged in and not bypassed with resistor. If you have oscilloscope, you can also inspect output waveform of O2-sensor. Should be roughly +/- 0.4v sinewave above & below 0.485v.

Also check your TPS sensor. Measure output voltage and idle and WOT.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 14th, 2018, 12:40 AM   #10
JA-Moo
ninjette.org member
 
JA-Moo's Avatar
 
Name: John
Location: Rio Rancho
Join Date: Aug 2012

Motorcycle(s): many kawasaki 2 stroke triples and a 250R now. Well no more 250R, 2013 300 now

Posts: 146
OK, now things are way over my head. I don't believe it's a CA bike, and the rest, time for a manual.
JA-Moo is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Power commander 5 joecool 2013 - 2017 Ninja 300 Tech Talk 27 October 17th, 2014 05:03 AM
power commander? bandit_fosky 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 14 January 16th, 2013 02:05 PM
Dynojet Power commander 5 FvnnyL3tt3r1ng 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 3 September 23rd, 2012 03:23 PM
Power Commander for FI version? raybolic 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk 3 February 26th, 2012 06:34 AM
Power Commander for new bike? dive1tom General Motorcycling Discussion 5 December 8th, 2009 08:53 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Motorcycle Safety Foundation

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:04 AM.


Website uptime monitoring Host-tracker.com
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Except where otherwise noted, all site contents are Copyright 2022 ninjette.org, All rights reserved.