So I just lowsided my ninja 250r :(

Richardcheung · November 18th, 2012, 04:50 PM

Here are the pictures of the damage, please tell me what I have to buy, how much itll cost, and links to how I can fix it please. Also I bought the motorcycle for 1800, so if it costs more then that to fix it i might just part it out.
For the most part, the motorcycle is mechincally sound, I actually drove it a few blocks, but it was hard because the front tire is crocked. TYVM in advance.

Motofool · November 18th, 2012, 04:56 PM

Are you OK?

I see no more than light cosmetic damage, much less that what my bike has shown for long time.

The twisted front is an easy fix that you can do yourself.

ryan.chin · November 18th, 2012, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardcheung

Here are the pictures of the damage, please tell me what I have to buy, how much itll cost, and links to how I can fix it please. Also I bought the motorcycle for 1800, so if it costs more then that to fix it i might just part it out.
For the most part, the motorcycle is mechincally sound, I actually drove it a few blocks, but it was hard because the front tire is crocked. TYVM in advance.
]

L2Search

Richardcheung · November 18th, 2012, 04:59 PM

I'm fine, actually not even hurt for the most part, i was being dumb, I only used the front brake to brake at a yellow really quickly and the rear tire slipped out.

The main part is that the front tire is crooked.

Richardcheung · November 18th, 2012, 05:00 PM

how do i fix the twisted front?

Jiggles · November 18th, 2012, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardcheung

I only used the front brake to brake at a yellow really quickly and the rear tire slipped out.

Richardcheung · November 18th, 2012, 05:04 PM

Im a noob, dont hate on me =(
but seriously though, how do i re allign the front tire?

Motofool · November 18th, 2012, 05:35 PM

They are just teasing you, Richard; we all have been in your shoes.

Read these articles:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/I_need_...nd_front_wheel

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Suspension

It is fabulous that you are not even hurt.

Jiggles · November 18th, 2012, 05:45 PM

Not teasing, thoroughly confused by the physics of OPs brakes

menikmati · November 18th, 2012, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardcheung

I only used the front brake to brake at a yellow really quickly and the rear tire slipped out.

wut?

Follow Motofool's links to fix the front and go to an empty parking lot ASAP and work on your quick stops.

Might also want to get turn signals that can be seen from the front.

Alex · November 18th, 2012, 06:14 PM

/moved to crashed forum

Lychee · November 18th, 2012, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Not teasing, thoroughly confused by the physics of OPs brakes

So, you are asking, when the front brake is smashed and slams all of the weight onto the front tire and releases all of the weight from the back tire, why is it possible for the rear wheel to lose traction and squirm?

Jiggles · November 18th, 2012, 06:58 PM

Yes I'm having trouble visualizing that happening. More than likely he locked the front

himynameisjoe · November 18th, 2012, 07:21 PM

Glad to see you're okay and that your bike is still okay, minus cosmetic.

Just curious, did you take the MSF? I only ask because of the description of what you did...

Richardcheung · November 18th, 2012, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by himynameisjoe

Glad to see you're okay and that your bike is still okay, minus cosmetic.

Just curious, did you take the MSF? I only ask because of the description of what you did...

Sadly no, I was planning to take it this summer, I just got the motorcycle, I got a permit and started driving

Motofool · November 18th, 2012, 07:52 PM

Start by studying this:

http://msf-usa.org/index_new.cfm?spl...gename=Library

http://www.msgroup.org/articles.aspx

I highly recommend this book:

"Proficient Motorcycling" by David L. Hough

http://www.amazon.com/Proficient-Mot.../dp/1889540536

Be extra alert and careful in traffic ridding.

Best !

himynameisjoe · November 18th, 2012, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardcheung

Sadly no, I was planning to take it this summer, I just got the motorcycle, I got a permit and started driving

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE TAKE IT!! I'm not sure how it is in Chicago and if it costs money or not, but it is one of the best things you can do. In my opinion. I did a lot of reading, a lot of youtube video watching and a lot of talk with experienced rider friends. But I learned a ton more than I knew possible by taking it.

The best learning experience I had was pretty much exactly what you did. We were practicing fast stoping (emergency stop) and I had done it a few times but I wasn't happy with how I was doing. I was also getting tired and was thinking of food, because it was the last exercise of the day. So 3rd time round, I didn't clutch, and I jammed on the front brake. Next thing I know, I'm on the ground and the bike is behind me. I jumped back up and was fine (sorta) and made sure everyone knew I was okay.

I tell people all the time it was the best experience of my class. I learned quite a few lessons, didn't mess up my own bike, and didn't get severely hurt and of course ATGATT!! (I opted out of my riding jacket that day... never again)

(The next session we did some more quick stops and I ended up doing the best in my class! 20 mph to 0 in 15 feet I think.)

Just for fun, this is what I found when I got home that day. I didn't even realize it had happened. Plus a nice cut on my thigh and and ankle.

Motofool · November 18th, 2012, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by himynameisjoe

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE TAKE IT!! ......... ATGATT!!

Sorry, I forgot mentioning that:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Protective_Gear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u68VI...eature=related

nickjpass · November 18th, 2012, 08:51 PM

He locked his rear...

himynameisjoe · November 18th, 2012, 08:54 PM

Getting back to that, are you sure you didn't press the rear brake pedal?

Wait honestly, I'm just completely confused now. Because it sounds like a front lock up, until he talks about his rear sliding... I'm very confused.

nickjpass · November 18th, 2012, 08:59 PM

My guess...he grabbed the front and locked it. The rear could have never slid...since he's new it's quite possible he doesn't even know what that feels like... @Richardcheung any way you could take the MSF before you ride? Consider riding a dirt bike too. Both are really good experiences that will make you a great rider. The BEST, yes the BEST riders started, or have ridden on dirt. On dirt, it's much easier to reach the limits of the bike. Once you do, and you crash, you're not afraid of those limits. Riding dirt is the best decision I have made, and am happy I started on my KLX.

himynameisjoe · November 18th, 2012, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickjpass

My guess...he grabbed the front and locked it. The rear could have never slid...since he's new it's quite possible he doesn't even know what that feels like... @Richardcheung any way you could take the MSF before you ride? Consider riding a dirt bike too. Both are really good experiences that will make you a great rider. The BEST, yes the BEST riders started, or have ridden on dirt. On dirt, it's much easier to reach the limits of the bike. Once you do, and you crash, you're not afraid of those limits. Riding dirt is the best decision I have made, and am happy I started on my KLX.

Yeah I really wish I had dirt experience. I've thought about taking the Dirt MSF, but I'd rather do it with people I knew.

Richardcheung · November 18th, 2012, 11:38 PM

hey, can you guys reccommend a good website for a CHEAP full fairing kit ?

Would this site work?
http://www.motorfairing.com/goods.php?id=1121

I have to replace both the left and right fairings and the rear right fairing =( so think that i would get a better deal if i buy a full fairing kit, but i dont want to spend like 800 bucks for a set. What do you guys recommend i do?

Malicious Logic · November 19th, 2012, 11:13 AM

Do you not have full coverage on it?

Richardcheung · November 19th, 2012, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malicious Logic

Do you not have full coverage on it?

=( nope, I only have liability

Richardcheung · November 19th, 2012, 11:28 AM

Does anyone here know where I can buy a full fairing kit for cheap?

alex.s · November 19th, 2012, 11:56 AM

just a note to jiggles and nicky passoyuck; if you endo while you are leaned or try to turn while endoing, the rear wheel swings out to the side.

akima · November 19th, 2012, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

just a note to jiggles and nicky passoyuck; if you endo while you are leaned or try to turn while endoing, the rear wheel swings out to the side.

Surely to endo while leaning is pretty hard to pull off?! It doesn't seem like the kinda of thing a noobie snapping on the front brake is likely to do. I share Jiggles confusion: I find it pretty hard to imagine a scenario where a new rider can use lots of just the front brake and the thing that makes them go down is the rear washing out

... and surely to endo and then turn the bars... idk... why would someone do that? Unless they are a stunter

alex.s · November 19th, 2012, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akima

... and surely to endo and then turn the bars... idk... why would someone do that? Unless they are a stunter

doing it intentionally? sure, stunter only.

doing it unintentionally? anyone.

Motofool · November 19th, 2012, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akima

......I share Jiggles confusion: I find it pretty hard to imagine a scenario where a new rider can use lots of just the front brake and the thing that makes them go down is the rear washing out

.......

Anytime that the tires are not in-line during hard braking, the CG will try to go around and move ahead of the front contact patch.

In my opinion, the OP doesn't know what happened, simply because his was a panic reaction.

Maybe he was lucky enough to be able to do a proper front-only emergency braking, but introduced some steering simultaneously; maybe he over-braked the rear and lock the front up; .......who knows?

The fact is that he did not have to fall for a yellow light, the fact is that he needs a lot of education and practice before he has a chance to survive the street jungle.

Richardcheung · November 19th, 2012, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motofool

Anytime that the tires are not in-line during hard braking, the CG will try to go around and move ahead of the front contact patch.

In my opinion, the OP doesn't know what happened, simply because his was a panic reaction.

Maybe he was lucky enough to be able to do a proper front-only emergency braking, but introduced some steering simultaneously; maybe he over-braked the rear and lock the front up; .......who knows?

The fact is that he did not have to fall for a yellow light, the fact is that he needs a lot of education and practice before he has a chance to survive the street jungle.

I agree haha

now the matter at hand, there might be more damage then I orginally thought. Here is what my bike looks like after I take off all of the fairings. I think the rim is bent and maybe somemore stuff

also, I started my bike again last night and it started fine, but this morning when i tried starting it, it would not start. It would sound like it's starting and then fail after holding the start button for a while all I would hear is a ticking sound.

JeffM · November 19th, 2012, 02:41 PM

Looks like the forks are out of alignment. Hard to see if the rim is bent - did the front wheel hit something solid after the bike slid?

Starting issue sounds like a dead battery.

Oh and like all the others, take the MSF and gear up. Glad you are ok.

Jeff

Motofool · November 19th, 2012, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardcheung

......I think the rim is bent......

Check it:

http://www.dansmc.com/spokewheels.htm

Charge the battery on slow mode.

himynameisjoe · November 19th, 2012, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motofool

Check it:

http://www.dansmc.com/spokewheels.htm

Charge the battery on slow mode.

Dude. You have links to like everything in life. Your bookmark folder must be huge!!

Richardcheung · November 19th, 2012, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffM

Looks like the forks are out of alignment. Hard to see if the rim is bent - did the front wheel hit something solid after the bike slid?

Starting issue sounds like a dead battery.

Oh and like all the others, take the MSF and gear up. Glad you are ok.

Jeff

Haha I only had a helmet and gloves on, I was a squid. I don't know what would cause the battery to die though because the bike started the night before, and the lights come on when I turn the bike on.

Jono · November 19th, 2012, 08:40 PM

I doubt the rim is bent unless you hit a curb or something. One or both of your forks are probably bent though. Possibly the top and/or bottom triple as well.

Remove the forks and inspect them to see if they are bent. It is super easy to do.

menikmati · November 19th, 2012, 10:36 PM

So are you going to get some gear, practice and insurance or just spend your money on fairings?

Monkeytofu · November 19th, 2012, 11:42 PM

There's no reason to buy new fairings with that little damage. just fix the crack with ABS cement and touch up with the appropriate color paint. Hell, those light white scratches aren't even paint scratches and a clear coat pen should be enough to cover them up.

Your forks are what you'll probably have to repair if they are truly bent.

beerhalffull · November 20th, 2012, 01:03 AM

Safety is much more important than fairings. Take the bike to your shop for a check. They'll break it down and let you know what's wrong. Once that's all ironed out get a list and fix it all yourself if you choose.

I suggest running the bike for a few months with the current fairings, because you may just trash the new ones without a lot more experience.

Lastly get some gear. Your body and more importantly your life are worth more than a few hundred bucks.

PS - Where in Chicago are ya from? I'm from Carol Stream and our Glenbard North Panthers are going to state against Mount Carmel.

tuan3742 · November 20th, 2012, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggles

After i read that, i bursted out laughing lol.

But anyway, yeah, please take the advice everyone is giving you. I know what it's like to go down and the first thing you want to do is fix all the things on your bike. but before you think about doing that, you really need to analyze what exactly caused you to go down and address that because if you didn't learn anything from the down, you're just going to do it again and waste even more money and possibly not be as lucky as you were the last time in terms of your own safety.

Priority list i'd suggest.
Make sure bike is mechanically functional before hopping on again
Gear up
MSF
Practice, in a closed parking lot, all your basics

Riding is fun, let's make sure you are around to continue enjoying it.

November 18th, 2012, 04:50 PM	#1
Richardcheung ninjette.org member Name: Richard Location: Chicago Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): ninja 250r Posts: 22	So I just lowsided my ninja 250r :( Here are the pictures of the damage, please tell me what I have to buy, how much itll cost, and links to how I can fix it please. Also I bought the motorcycle for 1800, so if it costs more then that to fix it i might just part it out. For the most part, the motorcycle is mechincally sound, I actually drove it a few blocks, but it was hard because the front tire is crocked. TYVM in advance.

November 18th, 2012, 04:56 PM	#2
Motofool Daily Ninjette rider Name: Hernan Location: Florida Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot. MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16	Are you OK? I see no more than light cosmetic damage, much less that what my bike has shown for long time. The twisted front is an easy fix that you can do yourself. __________________________________________________ *Motofool* *.................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly* "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí

November 18th, 2012, 05:35 PM	#8
Motofool Daily Ninjette rider Name: Hernan Location: Florida Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot. MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16	They are just teasing you, Richard; we all have been in your shoes. Read these articles: http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/I_need_...nd_front_wheel http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Suspension It is fabulous that you are not even hurt. __________________________________________________ *Motofool* *.................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly* "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí

November 18th, 2012, 05:45 PM	#9
Jiggles Jigglin' your Jiglets Name: Sean Location: San Jose, Ca Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 1 MOTM - Apr '13	Not teasing, thoroughly confused by the physics of OPs brakes __________________________________________________ If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

November 18th, 2012, 06:14 PM	#11
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	/moved to crashed forum __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

November 18th, 2012, 04:59 PM	#4
Richardcheung ninjette.org member Name: Richard Location: Chicago Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): ninja 250r Posts: 22	I'm fine, actually not even hurt for the most part, i was being dumb, I only used the front brake to brake at a yellow really quickly and the rear tire slipped out. The main part is that the front tire is crooked.

November 18th, 2012, 05:00 PM	#5
Richardcheung ninjette.org member Name: Richard Location: Chicago Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): ninja 250r Posts: 22	how do i fix the twisted front?

November 18th, 2012, 05:04 PM	#7
Richardcheung ninjette.org member Name: Richard Location: Chicago Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): ninja 250r Posts: 22	Im a noob, dont hate on me =( but seriously though, how do i re allign the front tire?

November 18th, 2012, 06:58 PM	#13
Jiggles Jigglin' your Jiglets Name: Sean Location: San Jose, Ca Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 1 MOTM - Apr '13	Yes I'm having trouble visualizing that happening. More than likely he locked the front __________________________________________________ If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs

November 18th, 2012, 07:21 PM	#14
himynameisjoe ninjette.org sage Name: Joe Location: Lancaster, PA Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Ninja 250(Totaled) Posts: 984 Blog Entries: 2	Glad to see you're okay and that your bike is still okay, minus cosmetic. Just curious, did you take the MSF? I only ask because of the description of what you did... __________________________________________________ "I am a creationist, I believe man created god."

November 18th, 2012, 07:52 PM	#16
Motofool Daily Ninjette rider Name: Hernan Location: Florida Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot. MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16	Start by studying this: http://msf-usa.org/index_new.cfm?spl...gename=Library http://www.msgroup.org/articles.aspx I highly recommend this book: "Proficient Motorcycling" by David L. Hough http://www.amazon.com/Proficient-Mot.../dp/1889540536 Be extra alert and careful in traffic ridding. Best ! __________________________________________________ *Motofool* *.................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly* "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí

November 18th, 2012, 08:51 PM	#19
nickjpass #squid Name: nickypoo Location: Five Guys Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): Track dedicated 2008 ZX6R Posts: A lot. MOTM - Jul '16	He locked his rear... __________________________________________________

November 18th, 2012, 08:54 PM	#20
himynameisjoe ninjette.org sage Name: Joe Location: Lancaster, PA Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Ninja 250(Totaled) Posts: 984 Blog Entries: 2	Getting back to that, are you sure you didn't press the rear brake pedal? Wait honestly, I'm just completely confused now. Because it sounds like a front lock up, until he talks about his rear sliding... I'm very confused. __________________________________________________ "I am a creationist, I believe man created god."

November 18th, 2012, 08:59 PM	#21
nickjpass #squid Name: nickypoo Location: Five Guys Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): Track dedicated 2008 ZX6R Posts: A lot. MOTM - Jul '16	My guess...he grabbed the front and locked it. The rear could have never slid...since he's new it's quite possible he doesn't even know what that feels like... @Richardcheung any way you could take the MSF before you ride? Consider riding a dirt bike too. Both are really good experiences that will make you a great rider. The BEST, yes the BEST riders started, or have ridden on dirt. On dirt, it's much easier to reach the limits of the bike. Once you do, and you crash, you're not afraid of those limits. Riding dirt is the best decision I have made, and am happy I started on my KLX. __________________________________________________

November 18th, 2012, 11:38 PM	#23
Richardcheung ninjette.org member Name: Richard Location: Chicago Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): ninja 250r Posts: 22	hey, can you guys reccommend a good website for a CHEAP full fairing kit ? Would this site work? http://www.motorfairing.com/goods.php?id=1121 I have to replace both the left and right fairings and the rear right fairing =( so think that i would get a better deal if i buy a full fairing kit, but i dont want to spend like 800 bucks for a set. What do you guys recommend i do?

November 19th, 2012, 11:13 AM	#24
Malicious Logic hates stupid people Name: Mark Location: Oklahoma City Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ZX6R Posts: 860	Do you not have full coverage on it? __________________________________________________ My vlogging channel: Ma1iciousLogic

November 19th, 2012, 11:28 AM	#26
Richardcheung ninjette.org member Name: Richard Location: Chicago Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): ninja 250r Posts: 22	Does anyone here know where I can buy a full fairing kit for cheap?

November 19th, 2012, 11:56 AM	#27
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	just a note to jiggles and nicky passoyuck; if you endo while you are leaned or try to turn while endoing, the rear wheel swings out to the side. __________________________________________________

November 19th, 2012, 02:41 PM	#32
JeffM Mr. 988 Name: Jeff Location: Sandy, Utah Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): One Posts: A lot. Blog Entries: 1	Looks like the forks are out of alignment. Hard to see if the rim is bent - did the front wheel hit something solid after the bike slid? Starting issue sounds like a dead battery. Oh and like all the others, take the MSF and gear up. Glad you are ok. Jeff __________________________________________________ "I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life, the way I want to" - Jimi Hendrix Cancer

November 19th, 2012, 08:40 PM	#36
Jono ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Jono Location: Memphis, TN Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Triumph Street Triple, 2009 KLX250SF, 2003 Suzuki SV650S (Sold), 2006 Ninja 250 (Sold) Posts: A lot.	I doubt the rim is bent unless you hit a curb or something. One or both of your forks are probably bent though. Possibly the top and/or bottom triple as well. Remove the forks and inspect them to see if they are bent. It is super easy to do.

November 19th, 2012, 10:36 PM	#37
menikmati crash 250, get supersport Name: Richard Location: San Diego, CA Join Date: Apr 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250R SE (Sold 6/9/14), 2009 ZX-6R (Sold 6/25/14), Subaru BRZ Posts: A lot.	So are you going to get some gear, practice and insurance or just spend your money on fairings? __________________________________________________
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

November 19th, 2012, 11:42 PM	#38
Monkeytofu I told you bro Name: Noor Location: Austin, Texas Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 1996 Ninja 250r Posts: 680	There's no reason to buy new fairings with that little damage. just fix the crack with ABS cement and touch up with the appropriate color paint. Hell, those light white scratches aren't even paint scratches and a clear coat pen should be enough to cover them up. Your forks are what you'll probably have to repair if they are truly bent.
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

November 20th, 2012, 01:03 AM	#39
beerhalffull ninjette.org member Name: Jason Location: SoCal - Oceanside Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): 09' Ninja 250R Posts: 48	Safety is much more important than fairings. Take the bike to your shop for a check. They'll break it down and let you know what's wrong. Once that's all ironed out get a list and fix it all yourself if you choose. I suggest running the bike for a few months with the current fairings, because you may just trash the new ones without a lot more experience. Lastly get some gear. Your body and more importantly your life are worth more than a few hundred bucks. PS - Where in Chicago are ya from? I'm from Carol Stream and our Glenbard North Panthers are going to state against Mount Carmel. Last futzed with by beerhalffull; November 21st, 2012 at 12:55 AM.
	1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

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