EX500, How does it compare?

[Ninjinsky]

Giving a bit of thought to getting an older gpz500 (EX500) This version


for touring and 2 up.
I have not ridden one yet and wondered how hey compare to the ninjette
Is it more of the same or does it have a different character?
My hope is for considerably more torque in the low to mids to make touring more relaxed

[InvisiBill]

Just for some comparison, if you wind it out, you can hit 60 in second gear and almost 80 in third.

I've heard that the 500 doesn't feel quite as small and nimble as the 250, but at the same time I hear that the 500 is a much smaller and more agile bike than bigger models. *shrug*

The EX500 has only had a handful of changes in its entire run from '87 to '09. The body was updated in '94, along with a few changes to make the engine more reliable. It also got 17" wheels (easier to find tires for) and the rear drum was replaced with a disc. Other than that, it's minor things that don't really affect the operation of the bike. Gen1/Gen2 is fairly similar to PreGen/NewGen.

The suspension is quite soft. You'll need firmer fork springs, and a rear spring if you're not tiny. The NewGen shock will drop in and provide a nice spring upgrade for bigger folks or 2-up (and bump the height up to make it handle a bit quicker). The PreGen spring can be swapped onto the stock shock to boost it up to "average guy" capacity (add FOGbones for the height bump). The swingarm hole is smaller than the 250's, so it's harder to find a donor shock that will swap in.

The frame is fairly weak. Stiffening up other parts (like adding a fork brace) has actually led to slower lap times (it doesn't solve flexing, it just shifts it elsewhere).

There are a lot of people who like the 500 as much as a lot of people here like the 250. They buy bigger bikes, and end up back on the 500 before too long. Its biggest downside is probably just that it's such an old design, though that also tends to keep things simple. Check out http://www.ex-500.com/ for plenty of info and another good community.

[allanoue]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

[imghttp://www.invisibill.net/ninja/Dyno_Chart_07_EX500.jpg[/img]

Just for some comparison, if you wind it out, you can hit 60 in second gear and almost 80 in third.

I've heard that the 500 doesn't feel quite as small and nimble as the 250, but at the same time I hear that the 500 is a much smaller and more agile bike than bigger models. *shrug*

The EX500 has only had a handful of changes in its entire run from '87 to '09. The body was updated in '94, along with a few changes to make the engine more reliable. It also got 17" wheels (easier to find tires for) and the rear drum was replaced with a disc. Other than that, it's minor things that don't really affect the operation of the bike. Gen1/Gen2 is fairly similar to PreGen/NewGen.

The suspension is quite soft. You'll need firmer fork springs, and a rear spring if you're not tiny. The NewGen shock will drop in and provide a nice spring upgrade for bigger folks or 2-up (and bump the height up to make it handle a bit quicker). The PreGen spring can be swapped onto the stock shock to boost it up to "average guy" capacity (add FOGbones for the height bump). The swingarm hole is smaller than the 250's, so it's harder to find a donor shock that will swap in.

The frame is fairly weak. Stiffening up other parts (like adding a fork brace) has actually led to slower lap times (it doesn't solve flexing, it just shifts it elsewhere).

There are a lot of people who like the 500 as much as a lot of people here like the 250. They buy bigger bikes, and end up back on the 500 before too long. Its biggest downside is probably just that it's such an old design, though that also tends to keep things simple. Check out http://www.ex-500.com/ for plenty of info and another good community.

Do you think the brakes are ok as is?

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by allanoue

Do you think the brakes are ok as is?

I don't have a whole lot of experience or expertise for comparisons, but I think they're pretty good. They're known for warping the front rotor over time (once you remove it from the wheel, it distorts and won't go back on without some massaging), so many people switch to the EBC floater. A lot switch to the EBC HH pads too. The stock rotor (same for Gen1 and Gen2) is 280mm and matches the NewGen's bolt pattern.

There's not much done with brake swap stuff over on EX-500.com. While I'm sure there's room for improvement, they seem to be good enough for what the bike is.

[capt_bugaloo]

I owned an EX-500 for close to five years. It's a good reliable machine, and decent for highway. For the city where I do most of my riding, I found it just a bit of a handful, so I sold it and bought my Ninja 250.

The 250 is more 'chuckable' and easier to work through the curvy roads. Brakes feel about the same to me on each bike; maybe a bit stronger on the 250 as they simply have to stop less mass. I upgraded my 500's forks to better springs within the first year as I felt the stock suspension was soggy under heavy braking; I think my 250 has less front end dive.

The 500 has more acceleration and power as you might expect from a bigger engine, but I wouldn't say it's a powerhouse or feels "twice as fast" as the 250. Even with the 500 you get the occasional person who thinks "it's a girl's bike", but I never paid much mind to such folks.

As most of my riding is short distances in town, I am quite happy with my 250. If my commute were longer distances on the freeway, I might well prefer the 500.

[headshrink]

I picked up a '14 CBR500r. I suspect it's similar to what an EX500 would have been had they continued with it. That being said, however, the CBR is really only 471cc. We'll see if Kawi brings it back since Honda decided to be more aggressive in this market the last few years.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by capt_bugaloo

I owned an EX-500 for close to five years. It's a good reliable machine, and decent for highway. For the city where I do most of my riding, I found it just a bit of a handful, so I sold it and bought my Ninja 250.

The 250 is more 'chuckable' and easier to work through the curvy roads. Brakes feel about the same to me on each bike; maybe a bit stronger on the 250 as they simply have to stop less mass. I upgraded my 500's forks to better springs within the first year as I felt the stock suspension was soggy under heavy braking; I think my 250 has less front end dive.

The 500 has more acceleration and power as you might expect from a bigger engine, but I wouldn't say it's a powerhouse or feels "twice as fast" as the 250. Even with the 500 you get the occasional person who thinks "it's a girl's bike", but I never paid much mind to such folks.

As most of my riding is short distances in town, I am quite happy with my 250. If my commute were longer distances on the freeway, I might well prefer the 500.

Did you have FOGbones or similar to lift the rear at all? A lot of people who put on shorter bones or a longer shock think it greatly improves the feel of the bike. I agree that it feels more agile with the rear bumped up a bit compared to stock. It is still 60lb. heavier than the 250 though.

Yes, it's not a hugely powerful bike, but it's close to twice the HP of the 250. It's still considered "just a 500" by some. I think it's got a little niche where it's small enough to be a starter bike for many people, without being so small that you want to replace it right away. But many people start smaller, then go to something bigger when they upgrade, completely skipping the 500.

I don't really like freeway riding (I prefer winding around the back roads), but my 10 mile commute is about half a mile on each end at 25mph with a handful of stop signs, with 55mph two-lane highways in between. Being out in the sticks, combined with being a bigger guy, I like having the extra power of the 500.

Originally Posted by headshrink

I picked up a '14 CBR500r. I suspect it's similar to what an EX500 would have been had they continued with it. That being said, however, the CBR is really only 471cc. We'll see if Kawi brings it back since Honda decided to be more aggressive in this market the last few years.

The EX500 has nearly 25% more HP, but the CBR seems to have more power in the lower RPMs, which makes it feel more powerful for normal riding from what I've read. HP, Torque comparison with Ninja 650/300.

A lot of the EX-500.com folks keep begging for Kaw to bring back the EX500. However, I think it would end up just being a sleeved-down 650 (like they did for the Canadian 400) to get all the modern improvements people would want (as opposed to building another separate small bike). The 300 ABS SE's price is already as much as the last 500 was, so I think a new 500 would end up being mid-$6000's to fit in with their other products. I'd love to see a modernized version of the 500, but I think it would lose a lot of what people like about the 500.

[sharky nrk]

Indeed, with the 250 rising to 300 I just don't see the room for a 500 between the 300 and 650 from a sales and marketing standpoint. I think Honda can justify it because the platform is used across three variants. And because they are Honda.

[Ninjinsky]

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

Indeed, with the 250 rising to 300 I just don't see the room for a 500 between the 300 and 650 from a sales and marketing standpoint. I think Honda can justify it because the platform is used across three variants. And because they are Honda.

I remember way back when Honda bizarrely raised the cb72 250 to the cb77 305 it didn't hurt the the CB 450, one of my favorites from the '60s

[sharky nrk]

^^ beautiful bike