Body positioning and my knees

[HorizonXP]

Hey guys,

So I've been trying to practice good body positioning. No one has taught me, I'm doing this based on my reading and watching videos. I really should get someone to watch and record me, to get a better idea of what I'm doing wrong (i.e. make sure I'm not cross up)

That said, my knees kill. It doesn't really feel like it's the joint, but more like the quadriceps muscles just above the knee, almost like it's the tendon. I feel it most when I weight the inside peg, and shift my body weight to that side.

I'm probably doing something wrong, right? Or will it just go away as my muscles adjust to doing something new?

[ally99]

Ouch! Knee pain SUX. My old Taekwondo injury still flares up at times.
Just a question, do you work out (cardio or weights)? If not, I'd say your muscles may be adjusting. I know someone who doesn't work out (though is in good shape), but his leg muscles can't handle the "hanging off" technique and it hurts him to even do it a few times. Even being in good muscular shape, my knees were sore as hell the first 5-10 rides in which I practiced hanging off the bike. They rarely hurt now unless I've gone hundreds of cornering miles in a day or two, then they sometimes feel tired, but not injured.
If it doesn't get better in a few weeks, an MRI may be worthwhile. How long have you been riding?

[HorizonXP]

Yeah they mostly just feel tired. I do work out, so my muscles should be ok. Although I am 30 lbs overweight, which I'm working on. I just want to be sure I'm not doing something wrong before I continue doing it.

Funny enough, I work with MRIs so I could get one of my knee. :-p
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[FrugalNinja250]

If your legs are fairly long it may just be that your knees are bent too tightly. Not sure how to fix that except maybe move the pegs?

[Alex]

[MikeCG23]

Maybe your not used to holding up the motorcycle??

[Nemesis]

Your knees hurt because your body position is crossed up. Your whole body should be parallel to the bike. The moment your chest is over the tank but your butt & knees are out places a lot of pressure on your knees.

There are plenty of good BP positions out there but most of them are really too extreme IMO. Also, keep in mind hanging off too much is not a good thing. It can slow you down in the turns. But for beginners try to exaggerate at first then tune it down once you get the feel for it.

Another tip, and this is personally what I've been taught and has worked for me, is to make sure 70% of the weight/pressure is on the outside leg. In other words, if I'm cornering left, most of my weight/pressure is on my right knee/leg. My left leg is loose & relaxed. As you advance you can apply more pressure in the inside foot to help you corner/turn the bike harder.

[FrugalNinja250]

Just curious, are you referring to body position while riding on the street, or on a racetrack? I ask because when I ride I don't "push down" on either peg. The weight on the pegs is merely what the dead weight of my legs are, no more. The weight of my torso is always born through my pelvis to the seat, and I keep my torso in line with the bike in a vertical plane while cornering, which maintains a neutral weight shift. Arms are always relaxed and slightly bent, and wrists are straight, not bent.

[Nemesis]

^^^
Good question. I presumed he meant track because I can't think of vids showing you how to sit properly.

I know I struggled with street riding position (if that's what the topic is about) too. I just had to try several different positions until I was comfortable. Took a long time but I finally found one: Riding with one hand, and my body turned sideways. LOL!

I don't recommend this to anyone. It just works for me.

[Daeldren]

I had to remove the side panels to feel more comfortable, being shorter my knees sit better on the tank.

[Flashmonkey]

*puts on e-doctor hat*

Well...from briefly skimming your original post, it sounds like a mobility issue. I suggest you get into stretching regularly. I used to stretch for hours when I was a martial artist. The amount of flexibility and range of motion you achieve is worth the effort.

Of course, take this, as with any internet advice, with a grain of salt. I don't know your current physical conditioning, but if you're like everyone else who "works out" every now and then I can almost guarantee you that the problem is a lack of mobility....or some kind of muscle imbalance, which is sorta related.

[spooph]

I agree with lots of stretching, maybe some holistics for joints and such, and MO RIDING! Don't over do it though. But the more your ride, the more time you're going to get in different positions, and the better it's going to get!

It's funny, the manufacturer's always speak of the bike's break-in period, but I don't think I've ever heard anybody talk about the rider's break-in period....

It's part of the moto life, learning to live with your baby... ;D

[HorizonXP]

So did 700 km of twisties today. Three issues:

1) My butt gets sore.
2) Sharp pains in my trapezoid muscles behind my shoulders.

These are relieved with breaks, but eventually, they get to be too much.

3) I still have knee pains.

I've figured out that not only are my knees hurting from me hanging off the bike, it's actually the fact they're sitting on the pegs. Even straight-road riding, I was suffering from knee pains. I periodically stretched them as I rode, but it was still there. I'm thinking it's a combination of the peg height and the vibrations of the bike going into my legs.

I'm 5'10", I don't see how the pegs wouldn't be a good position for me...

Oh, and I'm hanging off correctly. Definitely not crossed up.

[sharky nrk]

I know I was having a problem opening up my hips when getting off the bike a bit. It really helped for me the place my heel on the heel plate, ball of foot on the end of the peg, and open my hip. That made it natural for me to relieve pressure on my knee.

[spooph]

um, no mal-intent intended with this question, but why are you leaning off the bike on the open road?

[karlosdajackal]

I used to get pains like that, turns out i was dehydrated!

Yea took a while to figure that one out, was told by someone who knows these things to drink twice as much water on each of the breaks. Did 10 hour of twisties with no issues a couple of weeks ago. Also why are you weighting the inside peg? Surely you want to weight the outside peg?

[HorizonXP]

Originally Posted by spooph

um, no mal-intent intended with this question, but why are you leaning off the bike on the open road?

I'm not quite hanging off. I'm a bigger guy, most of my butt is still on the seat. My knee is definitely out. But I do all this so I DON'T lean the bike so much and keep it as straight as possible. I don't do high enough speeds to have a high enough lean angle (my knee is nowhere near the ground.).

Also, it allows me to see well enough into the turn to be able to react to anything that might be there. Also, I have plenty of lean in reserve to swerve if necessary.

I'm not reckless. And these are country roads, up in north Ontario.

Originally Posted by karlosdajackal

I used to get pains like that, turns out i was dehydrated!

Yea took a while to figure that one out, was told by someone who knows these things to drink twice as much water on each of the breaks. Did 10 hour of twisties with no issues a couple of weeks ago. Also why are you weighting the inside peg? Surely you want to weight the outside peg?

Weight the inside during the turn, weight the outside on the way out.

And hydration is a definite possible culprit.... Hmm...

[spooph]

Feel free to lean off the bike, it's you riding at the end of the day, isn't it? But You don't need to lean off the bike. And you might want to try it and keeping your knees in, using them to center you over the bike, and see how that effects your knees. My knees bend more when I lean off the bike, which means they get stretched more. For instance, I can run for about 30 minutes on the track before I start feeling fatigue. But I can run on the open road for 6 hours before I start feeling fatigued....

So if your street riding is pretty aggressive (irrespective of your actual speed), you might straining your body for little reason.

Try just sitting up straighter, with straighter arms (in no way completely straight arms), with both knees against the moto, and give that a shot.... See what happens.

Also, +1 for dehydration.

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by HorizonXP

So did 700 km of twisties today. Three issues:

1) My butt gets sore.
2) Sharp pains in my trapezoid muscles behind my shoulders.

These are relieved with breaks, but eventually, they get to be too much.

3) I still have knee pains.

I've figured out that not only are my knees hurting from me hanging off the bike, it's actually the fact they're sitting on the pegs. Even straight-road riding, I was suffering from knee pains. I periodically stretched them as I rode, but it was still there. I'm thinking it's a combination of the peg height and the vibrations of the bike going into my legs.

I'm 5'10", I don't see how the pegs wouldn't be a good position for me...

Oh, and I'm hanging off correctly. Definitely not crossed up.

I believe these are all conditioning issues....especially the first two you listed. The third may be a combination of conditioning and body position. One of the reasons I sold my little 250 is because I felt there wasn't enough room on that bike for me. Not that I'm huge or anything (I'm 5'-10" as well) but because prior injuries had made it difficult to ride the 250 for long stretches without experiencing drastic amounts of pain (back and knee).

You could try increasing the strength of the muscle around the knees, and the legs in general and see how that works out. More muscle supporting the joint usually leads to a much stronger, much more stable joint. However, if this doesn't solve the issue, the only other solution may be to try another motorcycle with a slightly different seating position (ie: cruiser or sportbike). Having your feet and your knees coiled up like you're sitting in a chair (a-la the ninja 250) is beneficial for some but not all.

[Domagoj]

I have the same problem. And i am of the same height.
However i have noticed that after a while now i am able to endure a lot more riding without pain than before, but 700 km in a day would kill me.

I think the issue is the size of the bike. If i tuck in under the bubble my ass must be all the way to the end of the seat, and basically all of my weight is on the knees which are bent in a pretty sharp angle. And i think that hurts always. For a comparison, i tried a zx6r, and it felt wonderful. Knees are much less bent, and simply there is much more room, and much more comfort...
I think that clip-ons might solve some of the problems.
But for now i stop every hour or so and walk for 2 minutes.

My wife is 5'4", and she has no such problems. Not that she had been riding for more than an hour, but still after an hour i "feel" my knees, which she does not at all.

[almost40]

STT trackday (to learn from an instructor)and some cardio/weight lifting to target the sore areas