[visordown.com] - Supercharged Ninja H2 launch this month

[Alex]

I think you need to re-read those posts? He was saying that IOMTT would be one of the few places where that much power would make a difference. The long straightaways would perhaps provide an opportunity to gain time. But, looking at the lap records:

http://www.iomtt.com/TT-Database/TT-...p-Records.aspx

The difference between a 600 class bike making 135-140 hp, and a 1000 class bike making 210-220 hp, equates to a lap speed difference of 131.7 mph to 128.7, or 24 seconds over a 17 minute course. A 300-hp bike that handles exactly as well as the current literbike, would be what, 133 mph? for a 10 second gain? Would be interesting to find out, certainly.

I think Pikes Peak would be a place where it could be useful to have that much extra power. Standard bikes that are very powerful at the bottom get surprisingly weak at the top, so one with forced induction that maintains decent power to the top could be the right formula. It's why an electric bike holds the outright record, as the electric motor provided just as much power at 14,000 feet as it did at the race start many feet down the mountain.

[Sirref]

read it backwards

[ninjamunky85]

This is the track for the H2.

[Rustitution]

Originally Posted by Sirref

I disagree, watching a lot of full laps of the IOM TT there are a lot of straightaways. The rider would have to adjust the braking points but the advantage of being able to go much faster in the straights where they just sit at 180+mph for half a minute would create a massive difference. It has it's tight bits but the extra speed in the flowing sections would make up for that.

pikes peak the extra power is indeed useless

I agree with the IOM TT, but with pikes peak being a forced induction engine the elevation change would have a less of an impact on the bike as it climbed the mountain. It would be alot of 2-3 gear action with a few sections where it could flex it's speed. but the forced induction and the huge starting power numbers I think would help in the upper section where the air is thinned out.

[Klondike1020]

The street able version is going to be boasting 250bhp and cost 29,999.00USD according to the H2 forum.

Why is it when I search "h2" in the search menu it doesnt show any results?> @Alex

[Alex]

The search index doesn't go down to 2 letter words (3 is the minimum). If you choose the google search engine from that same menu, it does allow searching on 2 letter words.

[choneofakind]

So it's basically going to be a tiny bit more powerful than a BMW S1000RR and cost 10,000 more? (binmer's are like $20,000, right?)

[Jono]

I'd rather have a bimmer S1000rr.

[xorbe]

It's like Kia making a 7-series fighter. Anyone with the money is going for the stuffy brand name. Only the richest of the true gear hears are going to buy GTR cars and H2 bikes.

[Sirref]

I'd rather have a panigale 899, because if I can afford something like that it's not going to be my daily ride

[xorbe]

Was this posted yet?

Link to original page on YouTube.

[BlownWideOpen]

Originally Posted by xorbe

It's like Kia making a 7-series fighter. Anyone with the money is going for the stuffy brand name. Only the richest of the true gear hears are going to buy GTR cars and H2 bikes.

This thing is 70k loaded. A comparable 7 series is about 130k. I'd rather buy the Kia to be honest... even if I was rich as hell.

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

This is the track for the H2.

I wonder what the top speed of the H2R actually is?

As a side note, I was pissed when they neutered the Mulsanne straight in 1990 with two chicanes (it was 3.7 miles long).

The Porsche 917 long tail reached 380 km/h (236 mph) there in 1970. Group C prototypes reached over 400 km/h (250 mph) during the late 1980s. In 1988 the Peugeot Project 400, Peugeot WM p88, piloted by Roger Dorchy, with special tires (low aerodynamic profile, a little narrower than normal, created by Michelin) reached the 405 km / h (253 mph) on the Mulsanne straight during qualifying for the race. Of course, the record still stands.

[CycleCam303]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

So it's basically going to be a tiny bit more powerful than a BMW S1000RR and cost 10,000 more? (binmer's are like $20,000, right?)

S1000r's are around 14k just like every other Japanese liter bike.

The H2 will be way more powerful than the naturally aspirated superbikes. The hp4 s1000 makes 170ish hp at the backwheel. Most liter bikes in stock form make around 150.

I've seen a lot of dyno graphs of stock vehicles and forced induction engines usually make measured wheel horsepower close to what crank measured horsepower.

I'm not saying the street H2 is going to make 250 to the wheel. I wouldn't be surprised if it made 220 at the back wheel though.

[CycleCam303]

Originally Posted by xorbe

It's like Kia making a 7-series fighter. Anyone with the money is going for the stuffy brand name. Only the richest of the true gear hears are going to buy GTR cars and H2 bikes.

True gear heads?

If I'm going to drop 6 figures on an exotic vehicle it's going to say Ferrari or Porsche, not Nissan. and the mark up on gtrs is still crazy high.

Unfortunately while the Nissan provides great value it's no European supercar. Spend some time around high end Euro cars and your perspective will totally change.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

I wouldn't be surprised if it made 220 at the back wheel though.

[alex.s]

25% drivetrain loss through a dogbox?

some how i don't think so.

[BlownWideOpen]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

True gear heads?

If I'm going to drop 6 figures on an exotic vehicle it's going to say Ferrari or Porsche, not Nissan. and the mark up on gtrs is still crazy high.

Unfortunately while the Nissan provides great value it's no European supercar. Spend some time around high end Euro cars and your perspective will totally change.

I think that's kinda what he meant though, as in only "gearheads" will buy the GT-R for that insane amount of money.

[choneofakind]

Fair enough Cam. I thought they were more expensive. I don't have money for toys of that scale, so I don't even look

And for power, I guess anything at 200 or above would be really impressive, but I'm still unsure how much it'll loose through the drivetrain. Time will tell!! I'm not excited for my personal means of owning such a vehicle, I'm more interested for science and curiousity.

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

True gear heads?

If I'm going to drop 6 figures on an exotic vehicle it's going to say Ferrari or Porsche, not Nissan. and the mark up on gtrs is still crazy high.

Unfortunately while the Nissan provides great value it's no European supercar. Spend some time around high end Euro cars and your perspective will totally change.

I think if you're a real gear head then you don't give two sh*ts about what brand a vehicle is. All you care about is the spec sheet. Whatever gives the most bang for the buck. If I can get a car or bike that performs equally to the competition for less money than I'm going for the cheaper option every time. It could say Yugo on it for all i care. Go for the cheaper option then spend the savings on mods.

I'm not really into cars anymore but if I were to get anything right now it would be a Subaru. Cheap, lots of mods available, fast as &*@$, and darn near indestructible.

[choneofakind]

brand recognition and consumer image go a long way in sales. Often how the consumer views your brand and how they perceive other users of that brand goes further than the actual quality of the product. Don't underestimate it. I won't drive a Kia.

Case and point, Diamondback is making a run at road bikes. They have some nice bikes, but image is KILLING them

[Worldtraveller]

Originally Posted by xorbe

Those wings better stay horizontal to the ground, unless you like extra sideways force in a corner at high speed.

Even that would be bad. Draw a free body diagram of a motorcycle at about 45 degrees...there really isn't any good direction to put that extra force. Down is probably the least worrisome, but even that means the bike, at speed, will want to go down (i.e. lean) more. That would cause some weird stability issues that are totally different from anything out there now...which usually means crashes.

If aero worked, MotoGP would be using it. It will only be effective at high speeds in a straight line.

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

brand recognition and consumer image go a long way in sales. Often how the consumer views your brand and how they perceive other users of that brand goes further than the actual quality of the product. Don't underestimate it. I won't drive a Kia.

Case and point, Diamondback is making a run at road bikes. They have some nice bikes, but image is KILLING them

Obviously brand recognition is huge and trying to establish a new brand today, especially in an already competitive market like the automotive one, is darn near impossible. But it can be done, and while I wouldn't drive a KIA either they do sell a lot of cars. More than Mitsubishi in the U.S. I'd bet.

One of my best buds just bought a Hyundai Elantra, again not something I'd buy but it's actually really nice. He let me drive it and I was impressed with how smooth and quite the ride was. The power from the little 4-cylinder it has was impressive too. If I was in the market for a car I would consider a Hyundai, I actually was looking at the 2-door Genesis for a minute.

And Diamondback isn't really as highly regarded of a brand as they used to be, even in the mountain bike community. They aren't a joke like Mongoose is now, but it probably doesn't help that they sell them at Dick's now.

[CycleCam303]

Originally Posted by alex.s

25% drivetrain loss through a dogbox?

some how i don't think so.

What's the bhp rating for the ninja 250? 40 right? C'mon man you and I know it makes nothing close to that stock to the rear wheel. Lol just saying.

[Sirref]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

What's the bhp rating for the ninja 250? 40 right? C'mon man you and I know it makes nothing close to that stock to the rear wheel. Lol just saying.

the 300 is 39 at the crank, the 250 is significantly lower
300 makes 33-34 at the wheel about a 15% disparity

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

What's the bhp rating for the ninja 250? 40 right? C'mon man you and I know it makes nothing close to that stock to the rear wheel. Lol just saying.

what kind of rocket fuel are you putting in that 250 of yours... ducati brand fuel must be.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

Obviously brand recognition is huge and trying to establish a new brand today, especially in an already competitive market like the automotive one, is darn near impossible. But it can be done, and while I wouldn't drive a KIA either they do sell a lot of cars. More than Mitsubishi in the U.S. I'd bet.

One of my best buds just bought a Hyundai Elantra, again not something I'd buy but it's actually really nice. He let me drive it and I was impressed with how smooth and quite the ride was. The power from the little 4-cylinder it has was impressive too. If I was in the market for a car I would consider a Hyundai, I actually was looking at the 2-door Genesis for a minute.

And Diamondback isn't really as highly regarded of a brand as they used to be, even in the mountain bike community. They aren't a joke like Mongoose is now, but it probably doesn't help that they sell them at Dick's now.

Diamondback hasn't been highly regarded in anything bicycles in a long time.


But your post is fair, I can be happy with that I too have grown a little more comfortable with Hyundai's lately. I've been eye'ing the Genesis Coupe. It's not as much of a pure driver's car as the FRS, but it has a little more power and seems to have an alright aftermarket support. Maybe it would be a better compromise for DD'ing.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

What's the bhp rating for the ninja 250? 40 right? C'mon man you and I know it makes nothing close to that stock to the rear wheel. Lol just saying.

Crank is about 32-33, right? Wheel is 26-27?

[CycleCam303]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

I'm not really into cars anymore but if I were to get anything right now it would be a Subaru. Cheap, lots of mods available, fast as &*@$, and darn near indestructible.

Chone has a point to an extent about branding.

A "real gearhead" is going to buy a track car. All road going cars are to be a compromise. I don't give a **** what it is. A Ferrari 458 off the showroom floor will only last 20 min on track before the tires get greasy and the brakes start fighting fade. My friend who was a car racer and test driver for Ferrari says that street cars are always limited to that. A 40k purpose built open wheel racer will be the fastest cheapest 4 wheel vehicle at a track day.

The sad realization after doing a track day with my miata was that even after all the time and money I threw into that car, is that I could go and buy an m3 and go way faster on track and drive home in comfort with the AC on.

Motorcycles are so cool because if you throw some pads and tires on them you can beat on them without any problems. Even the ninja 250 can survive sitting at red line over and over again.

The demographic of car track day goers are more affluent. Track days with the cars are pretty expensive. The events aren't cheap, tires aren't cheap, and the old adage of pick 2 fast, cheap, and reliable. Because you can't have all 3 of those. Cars like the 911 gt3 gets you awesome performance without having to worry that it's going to blow up after the third session.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

Chone has a point to an extent about branding.

A "real gearhead" is going to buy a track car. All road going cars are to be a compromise. I don't give a **** what it is. A Ferrari 458 off the showroom floor will only last 20 min on track before the tires get greasy and the brakes start fighting fade. My friend who was a car racer and test driver for Ferrari says that street cars are always limited to that. A 40k purpose built open wheel racer will be the fastest cheapest 4 wheel vehicle at a track day.

The sad realization after doing a track day with my miata was that even after all the time and money I threw into that car, is that I could go and buy an m3 and go way faster on track and drive home in comfort with the AC on.

Motorcycles are so cool because if you throw some pads and tires on them you can beat on them without any problems. Even the ninja 250 can survive sitting at red line over and over again.

The demographic of car track day goers are more affluent. Track days with the cars are pretty expensive. The events aren't cheap, tires aren't cheap, and the old adage of pick 2 fast, cheap, and reliable. Because you can't have all 3 of those. Cars like the 911 gt3 gets you awesome performance without having to worry that it's going to blow up after the third session.

open wheel racer you say? the cost so far is just over $1000 including donor.

google for "locost racer" - your typical lotus 7 replica based on a miata drive train... people spend around 4-6 grand. some do it for a lot cheaper. and then again some spend ten grand on carbon fiber bodywork.

around here (i've been looking into it lately) most car track day fees actually cost less than a moto track day at the same track. not sure why. maybe its an insurance thing. example most track days cost around 150-200 for a moto unless you're in a club, but the car prices are around 100-120. and there are tons of autocross events available for cars that run $10-30. there are very few mgymkana groups around here. i think i only know of one.

you're right 4 tires per set is a lot more expensive. typically the individual tyre is more expensive too.

doing track days in a car also requires virtually no safety equipment compared to a motorcycle which requires full gear. many people don't have a full suit or boots so this becomes an added expense to starting track days.

[xorbe]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

One of my best buds just bought a Hyundai Elantra, again not something I'd buy but it's actually really nice. He let me drive it and I was impressed with how smooth and quite the ride was. The power from the little 4-cylinder it has was impressive too. If I was in the market for a car I would consider a Hyundai, I actually was looking at the 2-door Genesis for a minute.

My elderly dad bought one (the GT hatch) and I've put about 4000 miles on it. Minor gripes, clutch engagement and shifting are a bit vague (most probably get A/T), suspension is a bit under-damped on some larger freeway bumps. Coming from a Z4 daily driver. Loving the hatch space though, adequately peppy with good mpg, it's a keeper.

Anyway, back to all things H2R.

[alex.s]

i have put almost 150k miles on my '05 hyundai accent gt. i had to replace the clutch at 90k because i don't really use it and instead just redline drop launch it most of the time. its a fun car but you're right about underdamping. nice and comfortable though

[JeffM]

The dealer invoice was fake:
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bike...-fake-invoice/

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by JeffM

The dealer invoice was fake:
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bike...-fake-invoice/

Not Found

?

[ninjamunky85]

Here it is http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bike...-fake-invoice/

[Jono]

Sure was!

I'm gonna take a guess at real pricing... around $25,000 for H2R and around $16,000 for H2. I think the street version has to be priced reasonably because Yamaha will be bringing out their new R1 "we think" which should also have over 200 HP at the rear wheel. Just a guess. Who knows.

[Sirref]

I think I'm going to like the new R1 more than the h2

[Jono]

Link to original page on YouTube.

All I want is an empty runway and an H2R. I want to open up that throttle and hear it scream!

Link to original page on YouTube.

[alex.s]

the h2 is seeming more and more like simply a marketing stunt for khi

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by alex.s

the h2 is seeming more and more like simply a marketing stunt for khi

Bingo! It took you this long to figure that out? lol