Cops

[Avenged7Fold]

So I'm riding on a permit right now, and in Arizona they say "you are prohibited from carrying passengers and operating a motorcycle on freeways or interstate highways or between sunset and sunrise, or at any time when there is not enough light to clearly see persons or vehicles at a distance of 500 feet"
With my new job, I am riding about 30 miles a day round trip to work. To save on gas I'd like to ride my bike to work. The problem is that the shift is from 6pm to 1 am on fridays and 6pm to 11:15 pm on other days. I can take surface streets to factor out the illegal riding on freeway, but there is no way to get around riding at night. What do you think will happen if I ride illegally home at both 11:15 pm and 1 am? If i get pulled over, what will they do? Can they have any chance of catching me if I'm not speeding?

On the actual permit it says this:
"This permit is valid except: 1)On a controlled-access highway, 2)On any public highway from sunset to sunrise, or 3)When visibility is less than 500 feet."

Does #3 limit me from riding at night, even if I drove a little slower than the speed limit with lights on?

[xSean13]

If you are not speeding, swerving, riding recklessly, running lights/stop signs, or have any issues like turn signal/brake/headlight being out, then they have no way of pulling you over.
If you do get pulled over, then you always have the excuse of saying that this is your mode of transportation and it just so happens your work schedule is a night-time shift.

[Avenged7Fold]

Originally Posted by xSean13

If you are not speeding, swerving, riding recklessly, running lights/stop signs, or have any issues like turn signal/brake/headlight being out, then they have no way of pulling you over.
If you do get pulled over, then you always have the excuse of saying that this is your mode of transportation and it just so happens your work schedule is a night-time shift.

Right, that's what I was thinking. Drive legally, and make sure everything on my bike is working before I go, and then all I have to say is that I had to work night shift tonight to fill someones spot. Or, my car had a flat (any problem) so I had to take my bike to work tonight, getting it fixed in the morning.

Just don't want my license revoked or the bike towed away, causing me to have to ride illegally for the next 5 months till I got my license.

[xSean13]

Yep, and if you have a clean driving record, then they are more forgiving.

[gitoy]

trent....chances are you won't be stopped if you don't break any laws like the others said...just be cool and everything is going to be okay...besides you will be on your toes and that can only be good...

so don't be a wuss...

[Luvninja]

You can ride legally all you want, it doesn't mean you won't get pulled over. Sometimes cops just like to pull riders over to check that you have an endorsement, they don't need much of an excuse.

[Avenged7Fold]

xSean13 and gitoy make a point, DONT BE A WUSS! But then I have to watch for what luvninja said. If they pull me over for no reason it could be bad. I guess I risk it and scenario the perfect excuse out in my head incase I do get pulled over. Something about having to fill in the night shift or my car breaking down before work.

Just wanted to see if anyone has had this problem and knows the consequences.

[mustang5.0]

i would think, being in violation of the permit, you may lose you permit if pulled over

[xSean13]

Originally Posted by Avenged7Fold

xSean13 and gitoy make a point, DONT BE A WUSS! But then I have to watch for what luvninja said. If they pull me over for no reason it could be bad. I guess I risk it and scenario the perfect excuse out in my head incase I do get pulled over. Something about having to fill in the night shift or my car breaking down before work.

Just wanted to see if anyone has had this problem and knows the consequences.

Well, the police can't pull you over for no reason, that's illegal. They have to have some type of probable cause, e.g. the things mentioned above, including your tags (make sure they don't expire!). Otherwise, if the person happened to be black or some other race, then they could make the claim that they were being profiled, or the officer is racist, etc.

[massacremasses]

theyll pull you over if they want. Thats what they do.

[Boom King]

bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do?

[MasterCylinder]

When does your permit become a license and how old are you?

On the actual permit it says this:
"This permit is valid except: 1)On a controlled-access highway, 2)On any public highway from sunset to sunrise, or 3)When visibility is less than 500 feet."

Well if you read it literally - 1) a freeway 2) Highway = street, basically anything with a street name is a highway in legal terms 3) visibility could mean foggy weather too... Maybe get some extra bright lights or underglow? Wear a reflective vest that can is rated up to 500 ft?

[Stingray1000]

ok so knowing laws and having been pulled over a thousand times and understand road laws for cars (pretty much the same for bikes) Everyone who said anything about "probable cause" is wrong... If the bike is in your name and you a cop runs your tags and see's you only have a permit and no M on your lic, The CAN pull you over, Their probable cause becomes what pops up on their screen. I have been pulled over because my lic was suspended and the cop ran my tags... SAME SITUATION. If you don't have a lic to drive when or where you're driving and a cop runs your tags you WILL get pulled over and they are in their legal limit to do so. As far as what they can do after getting a ticket the only thing I know is for a car permit, you lose it and have to wait a certain amount of time to be able to drive again. As for motorcycle permits I can only assume it's the same.

[xSean13]

^^ And running your tags and finding a permit is also probable cause, therefore it is still right. We are saying that they cannot pull you over for no reason. Anyways, cops don't just sit there on their computer running tags all day. They usually do if something looks sketchy. My bro-in-law is a police officer, btw.

[massacremasses]

^ dude they can, and they will. They make bullshit up on a regular basis. Im not a cop hater or anything Im just saying how it is.

[MasterCylinder]

Stingray is right.

Well if you read it literally - 1) a freeway 2) Highway = street, basically anything with a street name is a highway in legal terms 3) visibility could mean foggy weather too... Maybe get some extra bright lights or underglow? Wear a reflective vest that can is rated up to 500 ft?

Basically you can't ride anywhere at night.


I meant to put that earlier. It's passed my bedtime. :P

[Stingray1000]

Originally Posted by xSean13

^^ And running your tags and finding a permit is also probable cause, therefore it is still right. We are saying that they cannot pull you over for no reason. Anyways, cops don't just sit there on their computer running tags all day. They usually do if something looks sketchy. My bro-in-law is a police officer, btw.

Cops around here run tags all day long... They follow cars that look "suspicious" ie older cars, beat up cars, cars that look ghetto and any and ALL bikes. And that info came directly from a cop... That is how they are trained here in DE... vehicular Profiling, gotta love it

[thurt88]

A cop will pull you over on a whim. They can think of a probable cause on the fly. Trust me, don't run the risk of losing your permit and time from work because of going to court (which im sure you'll do to fight the ticket).

My dads a cop. They will pull you if for no other reason than because they are having a bad day or your the only bike they saw all day on this back road.

Another thought, what if you were to be involved in a traffic accident. Are you ready for that ?


edited to add: Those of you who do not believe that officers make up probable cause on the fly.......Have you ever even considered why they ask you
"Sir/Ma'am, do you know why I pulled you over ?" and only after they have asked you for license and registration.

[MasterCylinder]

Originally Posted by thurt88

A cop will pull you over on a whim. They can think of a probable cause on the fly. Trust me, don't run the risk of losing your permit and time from work because of going to court (which im sure you'll do to fight the ticket).

My dads a cop. They will pull you if for no other reason than because they are having a bad day or your the only bike they saw all day on this back road.

Another thought, what if you were to be involved in a traffic accident. Are you ready for that ?


edited to add: Those of you who do not believe that officers make up probable cause on the fly.......Have you ever even considered why they ask you
"Sir/Ma'am, do you know why I pulled you over ?" and only after they have asked you for license and registration.

Now that's not true. Traffic stops are one of the most dangerous officer initiated encounters. Unless traffic is specifically your job, a typical patrol officer is not gonna pull someone over because they are having a bad day. There is a reason they are pulling people over. Whether it be to check for warrants or drug trafficking etc...but because of the law it has to be initiated through a traffic stop. It's actually how a lot of police work gets done. From a civilian point of view yes I could see how it seems there is "no reason" though. Hell if you really think it's bad goto just about any other country where they can really pull you over just because they feel like it or just to check your passport/legal documents...You know, those things that aren't required here in the US.

[Stingray1000]

Originally Posted by MasterCylinder

Now that's not true. Traffic stops are one of the most dangerous officer initiated encounters. Unless traffic is specifically your job, a typical patrol officer is not gonna pull someone over because they are having a bad day. There is a reason they are pulling people over. Whether it be to check for warrants or drug trafficking etc...but because of the law it has to be initiated through a traffic stop. It's actually how a lot of police work gets done. From a civilian point of view yes I could see how it seems there is "no reason" though. Hell if you really think it's bad goto just about any other country where they can really pull you over just because they feel like it or just to check your passport/legal documents...You know, those things that aren't required here in the US.

That honestly is mostly true in bigger cities... in smaller towns it really isnt that dangerous to pull someone over... police in the states have a better than thou attitude and lose their humanity about a year or 2 after joining. Its really bad. A select few are decent but most are truely a holes

[Jono]

Cops around here now have Automatic license-plate recognition cameras on top of the patrol cars. So if you have any warrents or outstanding parking tickets on your record you'll definitely be pulled over. I doubt it tells them you have a motorcycle permit. But who knows.

The safe thing to do is just drive the car at night. Even though I would probably ride the bike and use your excuse about your car having a flat and you had to go into work. Just ride legally and you shouldn't have any problems. Maybe don't ride on Friday nights because more cops my be out looking for drunk drivers. Idk. Do what you want.

[Avenged7Fold]

I guess this makes sense... Thanks for the advice!

[DaveTheCanuck]

Perhaps it's different in the US (or particular States), but here in Ontario, there is no need for any probable cause. Police have the right to stop any vehicle whenever they want, wherever they want to check the driver, licence, insurance, registration, etc.

As has already been mentioned though, the officer will always run the plate before initiating the stop, in which case you'll show up as improperly licensed which provides probable cause anyway. So moot point.

Btw, a "Controlled-access highway" is another term for a freeway or what we all actually call highways. So city streets are fine (except during the time restrictions).

As the old saying goes, never do more than one illegal thing at a time. Follow that and you should be fine

[Liist]

If you do get pulled over, be respectful and do not talk back at the cops.

And as far as my experience, cops won't pull you over for having a bad day, but for you doing something wrong. And usually they are having a bad day if you don't get off with a warning (or just did something completely stupid).

[dfox]

Ask the police. Usually with work after hours, you can drive as long as you have a letter from your boss. This applies to junior drivers licenses, maybe not motorcycle permits. I'd call your local police department and ask the question.

[Timon]

In my opinion, if it's just to and from work during nights than I don't think you'll run into too many issues. At least around here, they're more happy that you have or are going for the endorsement, since I'd say at 1/4 to 1/2 of the people around here don't even have a permit to ride, but they do it day in and day out.

If you're that worried about it though then I'd say just go take the test and get it done with so you're not driving on a restricted license.

[Avenged7Fold]

Originally Posted by Timon

In my opinion, if it's just to and from work during nights than I don't think you'll run into too many issues. At least around here, they're more happy that you have or are going for the endorsement, since I'd say at 1/4 to 1/2 of the people around here don't even have a permit to ride, but they do it day in and day out.

If you're that worried about it though then I'd say just go take the test and get it done with so you're not driving on a restricted license.

I took the MSF course and have the paper filled out saying I can get it, just gotta wait for my 6 months to pass so I can hand it over for my license. The problem was that I am under 18 so I had to get the permit, wait 6 months, then get my license. In 4 more months I just goto the DMV and hand them my paper. No test or anything.