more shimming problems

[WOTurtle]

i shimmed my bike with 2 #4 washers and pulled the snorkle.

the bike fired up and idled pretty good, i was letting it warm up and the idle gradually went down and the bike shut off and will not crank now.

?

[WOTurtle]

it seems as if the rubber diaphram on the left carb is too big at the top.

it wont sit in the groove and seal properly like the right one, i try to push it into the groove and run my finger around to seat it and it pops up again.

[scotty]

Did you tear it? Make sure it is in place if it did in fact come out. Becarful with them, they are not cheap!!

[GiGs]

Make sure it isn't torn at all like scotty said, also wait until the carb has cooled down (and/or put the diaphrams in the fridge).

Once cooled (if they arn't torn) put them back in and carefully seat them and make dam sure they are in the little grove otherwise you may slice them like a cookie cutter when you put things back together !

[00NissanNinja]

If the diaphragm isn't sitting in the groove right try putting a bit of grease in the groove to help it stick in place. Make sure they aren't torn like the others said since they are really easy to tear.

[WOTurtle]

the diaphram isnt torn at all, it just seems like its too big to fit in the groove.

no matter how i push it down it pops up on the other side.

i thought about glue, but i dont want to put any glue in my carburetors, do you think the grease will actually hold it in place?

could the diaphram being out of the groove and slightly pinched between the carb and cover make the bike not run at all?

[scotty]

Originally Posted by WOTurtle

the diaphram isnt torn at all, it just seems like its too big to fit in the groove.

no matter how i push it down it pops up on the other side.

i thought about glue, but i dont want to put any glue in my carburetors, do you think the grease will actually hold it in place?

could the diaphram being out of the groove and slightly pinched between the carb and cover make the bike not run at all?

You can apply a small amount onto the diaphram to help slide it into place. I would not use any glue ever. The caps on top will help to hold it down.

[00NissanNinja]

Don't glue it that is a bad idea
look at the end of the first post http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10736, grease is to help it get seated in the groove. If you pinch the diaphragm with the cover its going to make the bike run crappy.

[GiGs]

Try putting a small amount of grease in the gap on the carb as suggested, if that fails please take a few pictures and post them up so we can see what you are referring to

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by WOTurtle

will not crank now.

Diaphram fitment won't cause the bike to not crank, that's an electrical issue or the engine is seized.

[headshrink]

Try putting your diaphragm in the freezer for 10 min. This might shrink it back to its original shape. Also, use the grease trick others are talking about.

If you do tear it, they are ~$100 ea. Some have successfully patched theirs. I bought an old carb off ebay to scrap for parts.

[WOTurtle]

its pretty cold here in sc, so i think i actually shimmed with 3 #4's the first time, the bike ran really wierd, then died, and now will not crank.

think i fouled the plugs?

i just dont see how adjusting the fuel mixture slightly makes the bike not run at all.

[DaBlue1]

Have you checked to make sure the diaphragm is seated properly, even a slight cant or twist may not allow it to go down properly. Also check to make sure you have no twisted or pinched hoses and the vacuum hoses are on correct.

[WOTurtle]

ok, so i did the grease trick, and got the diaphram to seat properly and seal, i have two washers under the needles, and the snorkle pulled.

i put the tank back on and primed the bike with fuel, it starts now, but it will only start with the choke, and it idles at like 1k-1200 with the choke on. With the choke off the bike dies.

?

[Chubbs032]

choke should make it idle around 4k at full....idle without choke should be adjusted to ~1.5-2k

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Chubbs032

choke should make it idle around 4k at full....idle without choke should be adjusted to ~1.5-2k

I agree... have you tried readjusting the idle speed w/ the idle control knob?

[DaBlue1]

Keep in mind with colder weather (even down south), you may have to adjust your idle speed with the varying seasons. Always give it ample time to warm up before you adjust the idle. When it is cold out, I start my bike with the choke, let it idle high for a few seconds, then slowly decrease the amount of choke till it idles about 2k, let it idle there for a few, then ride it slow for about a mile or so to get it warmer. Once completly warm, the choke comes completely off then I adjust the idle speed

[WOTurtle]

ohhh yeah, ive tried every possible setting on the idle speed control on the left side of the bike.

it still will not idle with no choke.

i dont get it, its making me crazy.

[kkim]

are you sure you hooked all the vacuum hoses back up correctly after you shimmed the bike? might want to double check

[DaBlue1]

Have you tried to ride it at all? Check your idle linkage to make sure it is moving and adjusted properly.

[WOTurtle]

im heading outside now to take some pictures of how i have everything set up.


do you think i need to mess with the the idle mixture screws?

with the choke on the bike will take off and i can ride it, i can even unchoke the bike while im moving and it will still run, but once i pull the clutch in the revs just drop, the bike fights to idle at about 500 revs, and then dies.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by WOTurtle

the bike fights to idle at about 500 revs, and then dies.

what happens when you try and adjust the idle speed at that point?

[WOTurtle]

its like it doesnt respond to any input on the idle speed control on the left side.

i just took it down to advanced auto parts about .8 miles from my house and it died on me halfway back, and would not crank again.

the bike was running perfectly fine when i took the carb covers off to shim.

[kkim]

have you tried turning the idle control knob like 10 turns in to see if it makes any difference?

also, did you have both slides out at the same time when you shimmed? if so, are you sure you put the correct ones back into the proper carbs? the stock left and right needles are different.

[WOTurtle]

it didnt do anything.


im starting to kinda freak out.

edit: i never had the slides out, and i only had one needle out at a time, i know the needles are back in the correct carb.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by WOTurtle

it didnt do anything.


im starting to kinda freak out.

edit: i never had the slides out, and i only had one needle out at a time, i know the needles are back in the correct carb.

check to see if the idle control cable is still connected to the carbs on the right side of the carbs.

[WOTurtle]

ahhh! we're getting there!

apparently the idle speed was adjusted waayyyyyy out and the screw wasnt even touching the throttle.

i screwed it all the way back in and she cranked up, and idled at like 7k. lol

i adjusted the idle down to where it should be, but now it hangs like hell.

it at least idles without the choke now.

[kkim]

let the bike warm up fully (ride it 10-15 minutes), then fine tune the idle speed. I like 1500 rpm.

[headshrink]

Ahhh... now we are getting somewhere

[WOTurtle]

this is the craziest thing ive ever seen.

i just walked outside to crank it up, it surged, went back to 1200, then dropped to 500 and died.

[kkim]

did you use the choke? if not, use the choke to start it, then gradually turn it off as the bike warms up. if you didn't use the choke, the problem is the bike's not fully warmed up.

ride the bike, then set the idle... or let it idle for at least 10 minutes, then set the idle speed.

[WOTurtle]

it wont run for ten minutes.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by WOTurtle

it wont run for ten minutes.

even if you use the choke?

[WOTurtle]

no, this thing has me ready to scream.

does anyone have pictures of the correct way to hook up all vacuum hoses?

it seems like this is the problem.

i can prime the bike and it will surge and run for a little bit, but it seems like the bike isnt pulling any gas from the tank?

i dfk.

im stumped. especially since the bike ran fine and i was expecting this to be a 30 minute easy job to help pep it up.

now i dont have a bike.

[kkim]

put the fuel petcock in the "pri" position and see if this helps. when it's in that position, the petcock doesn't need vacuum to allow fuel to flow.

[WOTurtle]

yeah, priming with the petcock helps it start, but when i switch back to the on position it seems to not allow any more fuel.

[DaBlue1]

The fuel petcock is vacuum operated in the 'ON' position. The engine has to be running and providing a vacuum. Is the bike running at all with the petcock in the on position? The smaller hose to the rear of the petcock is the vacuum hose. Make sure it is not bent and also check the tank vent hose on the side of the tank. If no fuel is flowing when the bike is on and the petcock is in the 'ON' position, the vacuum may be wrong or you may have a bad petcock. Also do not connect any hose to the black fuel sensor.

[kkim]

the vacuum hose runs from the carb to the petcock. use this diagram... follow the orange line. don't be confused by the other stuff in the pic... you want to trace vacuum hose to the petcock.

[WOTurtle]

are there any vacuum lines left open?

there is a small tube i find coming out of the left side of the bike, where the carbs are that is making noise when the bike idles. When i cap it off with my finger i can feel it pulling air in.

[kkim]

there should be no vacuum lines left uncapped. that must be the source of your problems.

pictures would help.