DIY Shimming the carb needles. - Page 2

Sound Wave · February 3rd, 2009, 03:45 PM

the only thing i was worried about was that i don't have a stand, so my bike will be at an angle. i was thinking if i lift it up to get at the hoses, the tank will fall.

kkim · February 3rd, 2009, 03:51 PM

sticking a small 2x4 under the rear of the tank once you remove the rear tank bracket will allow it to be raised enough so you can get your hand under the tank to remove the hoses and sender connector. The tank won't fall as it's still being held in place by the front rubber doughnut thingys.

make sure the front wheel is pointed relatively straight to avoid hitting the front edge of the tank when you raise up the back of the tank.

Viper-Byte · February 3rd, 2009, 04:20 PM

Kelly said all you need to do

I don't have stands and all work I have done is with the side stand down.

Sound Wave · February 3rd, 2009, 09:52 PM

thanks for the tips. my friend and i work together, so we walked over to my house after work and he helped me with the tank. after he left, i shimmed the needles and put the tank back on myself. you are right. i didn't really need his help.

gotta take the bike for a test ride after dinner. this wasn't hard at all. i am glad i bought the JIS screw bits because it made it so easy.

i couldn't find my magnetic wand to get the needles out, but i used a pair of tweezers as suggested and that worked.

thanks everybody! feels so good to do this myself instead of going to a shop for this.

kkim · February 3rd, 2009, 10:08 PM

How many washers did you end up using under each needle? did you start the bike up after you were done just to double check your work?

be sure to post your impressions after your ride.

Sound Wave · February 3rd, 2009, 10:31 PM

i used 2 washers. i started it up and rode around my parking level a bit to make sure it seemed ok. going for a ride after american idol.

Sound Wave · February 4th, 2009, 12:18 AM

what a total difference! i guess all of you already know that, but the bike is so much more fun now. really responsive.

one thing... in my haste to beat the sunset, on one side, i am not sure if i put the spring in the protruding area of the center of the cap. how would i know if i didn't re-assemble it right? seems to run fine. would hate to tear apart the bike again just to see that it was put together right after all. what symptoms would an improperly re-assembled carb make?

thanks... i feel dumb.

kkim · February 4th, 2009, 12:29 AM

if the bike runs fine, I wouldn't worry about it. Just keep it in mind to check it if you are ever back in there.

I would guess if you didn't the spring centered on one side, it would affect how the slides went up and down in the carb body. That would cause the 2 carbs to be out of sync and you would hear a rhythmic beating of the engine as you accelerated in the midrange. Also, the top end might be affected if the carb slide was somehow not allowed to go all the way to the top at full throttle. That it's running fine tells me you're okay. if it does seem weird, you know where to check first.

feel dumb?? why?? you've done what most fear to do.

congrats on making your bike a lot more user friendly and fun.

grandmaster · February 4th, 2009, 06:43 PM

Okay, well I just got back from TRYING to get washers. I went to 2 Radioshacks, Autozone, Checker, Home Depot, and lowes. Nobody has them! The radio shack had an assortment but it was 2,4,6, and 8 sizes. Anybody got any other ideas?

OldGuy · February 4th, 2009, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

front rubber doughnut thingys.

Kelly is that a Kawasaki proprietary technical term

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandmaster

Okay, well I just got back from TRYING to get washers. I went to 2 Radioshacks, Autozone, Checker, Home Depot, and lowes. Nobody has them! The radio shack had an assortment but it was 2,4,6, and 8 sizes. Anybody got any other ideas?

You could take the 2mm and a small round file or drill bit and make it a 3mm. It's not that much metal to take out.

noche_caliente · February 4th, 2009, 07:11 PM

the assortment is what you need - it's the #4

kkim · February 4th, 2009, 07:12 PM

Levi,

The 2,4,6 and 8 are not metric are they? That is a US sizing scheme, correct?

Try looking for metric 3mm washers or order the washers through Radio Shack online that Noche mentioned.

OG... yes, that's the Kawasaki technical term for them thingys.

OldGuy · February 4th, 2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

Levi,
OG... yes, that's the Kawasaki technical term for them thingys.

Well hell that shows you what I know.

kkim · February 4th, 2009, 07:16 PM

lol... I'm kidding. I don't know what the hell they call them things!

OldGuy · February 4th, 2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

lol... I'm kidding.

So was I - got you

kkim · February 4th, 2009, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldGuy

So was I - got you

damned kids!!!

Sound Wave · February 4th, 2009, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noche_caliente

the assortment is what you need - it's the #4

yeah, problem is that you get 100 washers, 20 of which are #4. then again, they are only like $2.00 for the whole thing.

i preferred spending the 2 bucks than keep on searching around for them.

grandmaster · February 4th, 2009, 08:03 PM

"I originally used 4mm washers (as pictured) which were too big and the spring holding the needle down was not holding it down. and I have since gone to 3mm and these are perfect." as quoted by david (viper byte)

I can go grab the pack, but I looked online and there is a local fastenal that has some 3mm washers for .04 cents each. http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...02#caddrawings

Does that look right to you guys? If not I will just go over to radio shack and use the 4

grandmaster · February 4th, 2009, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

Levi,

The 2,4,6 and 8 are not metric are they? That is a US sizing scheme, correct?

Try looking for metric 3mm washers or order the washers through Radio Shack online that Noche mentioned.

OG... yes, that's the Kawasaki technical term for them thingys.

I am pretty sure that is metric by the way kelly, otherwise wouldn't it be like a 1/16" washer or something like that???

Sound Wave · February 4th, 2009, 08:04 PM

afaik, the #4 washers does not mean 4 mm.

the #4 will fit fine.

Sound Wave · February 4th, 2009, 08:11 PM

ok, i found a chart. a #4 washer has a 0.125" inner diameter. which equals 3.175 mm.

anyways, yeah the radio shack #4 washer that comes in that assortment pack will work.

kkim · February 4th, 2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sound Wave

ok, i found a chart. a #4 washer has a 0.125" inner diameter. which equals 3.175 mm.

anyways, yeah the radio shack #4 washer that comes in that assortment pack will work.

good work, Gary!

OldGuy · February 4th, 2009, 09:00 PM

Gary - good detective work.

grandmaster · February 4th, 2009, 10:19 PM

So am i not better off to to go by the 4 or 6 3mm washers for .04 cents each?

Sound Wave · February 4th, 2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandmaster

So am i not better off to to go by the 4 or 6 3mm washers for .04 cents each?

oh yeah. definitely.... if you can find them. i am sure there MUST be a store that sells them individually.

seems like you already went to 6 stores looking for them. i guess i am lazy and would rather pay the extra dollar+change and be done with it. you can always use the remaining washers and play tiddlywinks or something.

j/k.

btw, thanks for the props guys

grandmaster · February 4th, 2009, 11:31 PM

Ha ha well I think that is what I will do then, the only reason why i went to so many stores is to find the darned things because I didn't think all the other ones were the right size. Thanks a lot for looking that up as well, helped out a ton.

grandmaster · February 4th, 2009, 11:40 PM

I think i figured it out on the calculator...the link I posted was the #3 washer. it is .109 inches wich i figured to be 2.7686mm. Anybody know how big the needle is? Or should i just go spend the 2 bucks and use the #4 ahhahhaa

grandmaster · February 5th, 2009, 10:25 AM

Ha ha assuming I have all the tools and supplies ready to go I could crank it out in under 20

ha ha. Well I am just gonna run to radio shak and pick up that pack of washers today and most likely do the mod this weekend.

grandmaster · February 14th, 2009, 04:08 PM

Just finished doing it and removing the snorkle, took me about 45 minute...damn missed the record time

. Seems to be more responsive now and sounds much better.

kkim · February 14th, 2009, 04:11 PM

how many washers did you end up with under each needle?

grandmaster · February 14th, 2009, 06:28 PM

I ended up with 2 and it seems to be great. It seems to be a great mod and very easy. Especially the snorkel, basically no effort to take that thing out.

kkim · February 14th, 2009, 07:28 PM

cool... glad it worked out for you. some have not been as fortunate.

grandmaster · February 14th, 2009, 08:20 PM

Yeah wind was a factor....but as long as i had my harness on with a rope tied to the tree i was fine . It did make things a little bit more difficult. Try holding on the the fairing in hurricane like winds, its pretty tuff

grandmaster · February 18th, 2009, 07:00 PM

After riding this for the last couple of days I don't know what my impression is... I removed the snorkel and shimmed the needles. The top end definatly improved and pulls much harder from 8 grand up to red line. But the low end is really struggling now. What would you recommend I do? Put the snorkel back in and see waht that does? Add more washers?

kkim · February 18th, 2009, 07:13 PM

define "struggling"

grandmaster · February 18th, 2009, 08:52 PM

Like I give it gas (half throttle, full throttle, doesn't really matter) in the low RPM range (anywhere between 3 and 6 RPM) and it just luggs. Like doesn't even want to get up and go until about 7 grand. I really don't want to have to get back into the carbrator, but if thats what it takes i guess i will have to do that.

kkim · February 18th, 2009, 10:04 PM

does it idle fine??? steady like before?

You definately can't leave it like it is. Either take one out or put another in. I'd guess take one out.

Did it not act like this before you shimmed?

Are you sure everything is back together correctly? Double check your work before you start taking the carbs apart again.

grandmaster · February 18th, 2009, 11:16 PM

It idles beautifully just like before. It wasn't like this before I did the shim. Its much better in the top end like i said before, but bottom end suffers greatly. Should I put the snorkle back in and see if that changes anything? Or just take it apart and take one out/put one in, whatever it takes. I am 99% sure all of it is hooked up correctly.

kkim · February 18th, 2009, 11:29 PM

start with the easiest thing first. putting the snorkel back in isn't as easy as taking it out, but for now you can get it "sorta" in there and then use the results to figure out which way you need to go with the shimming.

grandmaster · February 19th, 2009, 12:52 AM

Sounds good...I will do some work on it this weekend and be posting up to see what you guys think I should do....after snorkel re-install....and then again if i need to pull/replace some more washers.

February 4th, 2009, 09:00 PM	#63
OldGuy Live Life Name: Don Location: Lincoln, NE Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Green SE Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.	Gary - good detective work. __________________________________________________ - ATGATT - Scorpion EX700 Hi-Vis Helmet, First Gear MeshTek 3.0 Jacket, TourMaster Transition 2 Jacket and Flex Pants, Sidi Doha boots

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February 3rd, 2009, 03:45 PM	#41
Sound Wave Ramen Rider Name: Gary Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2015 BMW R1200R, 08 Honda VFR800A (sold), 09 Ninja 250R (sold) Posts: A lot.	the only thing i was worried about was that i don't have a stand, so my bike will be at an angle. i was thinking if i lift it up to get at the hoses, the tank will fall.

February 3rd, 2009, 03:51 PM	#42
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	sticking a small 2x4 under the rear of the tank once you remove the rear tank bracket will allow it to be raised enough so you can get your hand under the tank to remove the hoses and sender connector. The tank won't fall as it's still being held in place by the front rubber doughnut thingys. make sure the front wheel is pointed relatively straight to avoid hitting the front edge of the tank when you raise up the back of the tank.

February 3rd, 2009, 04:20 PM	#43
Viper-Byte ninjette.org sage Name: David Location: Wellington, New Zealand Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R in Green! (Sold) Now 2011 Triumph Daytona 675 SE Posts: 564	Kelly said all you need to do I don't have stands and all work I have done is with the side stand down.

February 3rd, 2009, 09:52 PM	#44
Sound Wave Ramen Rider Name: Gary Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2015 BMW R1200R, 08 Honda VFR800A (sold), 09 Ninja 250R (sold) Posts: A lot.	thanks for the tips. my friend and i work together, so we walked over to my house after work and he helped me with the tank. after he left, i shimmed the needles and put the tank back on myself. you are right. i didn't really need his help. gotta take the bike for a test ride after dinner. this wasn't hard at all. i am glad i bought the JIS screw bits because it made it so easy. i couldn't find my magnetic wand to get the needles out, but i used a pair of tweezers as suggested and that worked. thanks everybody! feels so good to do this myself instead of going to a shop for this.

February 3rd, 2009, 10:08 PM	#45
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	How many washers did you end up using under each needle? did you start the bike up after you were done just to double check your work? be sure to post your impressions after your ride.

February 3rd, 2009, 10:31 PM	#46
Sound Wave Ramen Rider Name: Gary Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2015 BMW R1200R, 08 Honda VFR800A (sold), 09 Ninja 250R (sold) Posts: A lot.	i used 2 washers. i started it up and rode around my parking level a bit to make sure it seemed ok. going for a ride after american idol.

February 4th, 2009, 12:18 AM	#47
Sound Wave Ramen Rider Name: Gary Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2015 BMW R1200R, 08 Honda VFR800A (sold), 09 Ninja 250R (sold) Posts: A lot.	what a total difference! i guess all of you already know that, but the bike is so much more fun now. really responsive. one thing... in my haste to beat the sunset, on one side, i am not sure if i put the spring in the protruding area of the center of the cap. how would i know if i didn't re-assemble it right? seems to run fine. would hate to tear apart the bike again just to see that it was put together right after all. what symptoms would an improperly re-assembled carb make? thanks... i feel dumb.

February 4th, 2009, 12:29 AM	#48
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	if the bike runs fine, I wouldn't worry about it. Just keep it in mind to check it if you are ever back in there. I would guess if you didn't the spring centered on one side, it would affect how the slides went up and down in the carb body. That would cause the 2 carbs to be out of sync and you would hear a rhythmic beating of the engine as you accelerated in the midrange. Also, the top end might be affected if the carb slide was somehow not allowed to go all the way to the top at full throttle. That it's running fine tells me you're okay. if it does seem weird, you know where to check first. feel dumb?? why?? you've done what most fear to do. congrats on making your bike a lot more user friendly and fun.

February 4th, 2009, 06:43 PM	#49
grandmaster ninjette.org member Name: Levi Location: St. George, Utah Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R, CR125R Posts: 191	Okay, well I just got back from TRYING to get washers. I went to 2 Radioshacks, Autozone, Checker, Home Depot, and lowes. Nobody has them! The radio shack had an assortment but it was 2,4,6, and 8 sizes. Anybody got any other ideas?

February 4th, 2009, 07:11 PM	#51
noche_caliente ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Kim Location: mundo de ensueño Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 250 Posts: A lot.	the assortment is what you need - it's the #4

February 4th, 2009, 07:12 PM	#52
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	Levi, The 2,4,6 and 8 are not metric are they? That is a US sizing scheme, correct? Try looking for metric 3mm washers or order the washers through Radio Shack online that Noche mentioned. OG... yes, that's the Kawasaki technical term for them thingys.

February 4th, 2009, 07:16 PM	#54
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	lol... I'm kidding. I don't know what the hell they call them things!

February 4th, 2009, 08:03 PM	#58
grandmaster ninjette.org member Name: Levi Location: St. George, Utah Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R, CR125R Posts: 191	"I originally used 4mm washers (as pictured) which were too big and the spring holding the needle down was not holding it down. and I have since gone to 3mm and these are perfect." as quoted by david (viper byte) I can go grab the pack, but I looked online and there is a local fastenal that has some 3mm washers for .04 cents each. http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...02#caddrawings Does that look right to you guys? If not I will just go over to radio shack and use the 4

February 4th, 2009, 08:04 PM	#60
Sound Wave Ramen Rider Name: Gary Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2015 BMW R1200R, 08 Honda VFR800A (sold), 09 Ninja 250R (sold) Posts: A lot.	afaik, the #4 washers does not mean 4 mm. the #4 will fit fine.

February 4th, 2009, 08:11 PM	#61
Sound Wave Ramen Rider Name: Gary Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2015 BMW R1200R, 08 Honda VFR800A (sold), 09 Ninja 250R (sold) Posts: A lot.	ok, i found a chart. a #4 washer has a 0.125" inner diameter. which equals 3.175 mm. anyways, yeah the radio shack #4 washer that comes in that assortment pack will work.

February 4th, 2009, 10:19 PM	#64
grandmaster ninjette.org member Name: Levi Location: St. George, Utah Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R, CR125R Posts: 191	So am i not better off to to go by the 4 or 6 3mm washers for .04 cents each?

February 4th, 2009, 11:31 PM	#66
grandmaster ninjette.org member Name: Levi Location: St. George, Utah Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R, CR125R Posts: 191	Ha ha well I think that is what I will do then, the only reason why i went to so many stores is to find the darned things because I didn't think all the other ones were the right size. Thanks a lot for looking that up as well, helped out a ton.

February 4th, 2009, 11:40 PM	#67
grandmaster ninjette.org member Name: Levi Location: St. George, Utah Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R, CR125R Posts: 191	I think i figured it out on the calculator...the link I posted was the #3 washer. it is .109 inches wich i figured to be 2.7686mm. Anybody know how big the needle is? Or should i just go spend the 2 bucks and use the #4 ahhahhaa

February 5th, 2009, 10:25 AM	#68
grandmaster ninjette.org member Name: Levi Location: St. George, Utah Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R, CR125R Posts: 191	Ha ha assuming I have all the tools and supplies ready to go I could crank it out in under 20 ha ha. Well I am just gonna run to radio shak and pick up that pack of washers today and most likely do the mod this weekend.

February 14th, 2009, 04:08 PM	#69
grandmaster ninjette.org member Name: Levi Location: St. George, Utah Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R, CR125R Posts: 191	Just finished doing it and removing the snorkle, took me about 45 minute...damn missed the record time . Seems to be more responsive now and sounds much better.

February 14th, 2009, 04:11 PM	#70
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	how many washers did you end up with under each needle?

February 14th, 2009, 06:28 PM	#71
grandmaster ninjette.org member Name: Levi Location: St. George, Utah Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R, CR125R Posts: 191	I ended up with 2 and it seems to be great. It seems to be a great mod and very easy. Especially the snorkel, basically no effort to take that thing out.

February 14th, 2009, 07:28 PM	#72
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	cool... glad it worked out for you. some have not been as fortunate.

February 14th, 2009, 08:20 PM	#73
grandmaster ninjette.org member Name: Levi Location: St. George, Utah Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R, CR125R Posts: 191	Yeah wind was a factor....but as long as i had my harness on with a rope tied to the tree i was fine . It did make things a little bit more difficult. Try holding on the the fairing in hurricane like winds, its pretty tuff

February 18th, 2009, 07:00 PM	#74
grandmaster ninjette.org member Name: Levi Location: St. George, Utah Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R, CR125R Posts: 191	After riding this for the last couple of days I don't know what my impression is... I removed the snorkel and shimmed the needles. The top end definatly improved and pulls much harder from 8 grand up to red line. But the low end is really struggling now. What would you recommend I do? Put the snorkel back in and see waht that does? Add more washers?

February 18th, 2009, 07:13 PM	#75
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	define "struggling"

February 18th, 2009, 08:52 PM	#76
grandmaster ninjette.org member Name: Levi Location: St. George, Utah Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R, CR125R Posts: 191	Like I give it gas (half throttle, full throttle, doesn't really matter) in the low RPM range (anywhere between 3 and 6 RPM) and it just luggs. Like doesn't even want to get up and go until about 7 grand. I really don't want to have to get back into the carbrator, but if thats what it takes i guess i will have to do that.

February 18th, 2009, 10:04 PM	#77
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	does it idle fine??? steady like before? You definately can't leave it like it is. Either take one out or put another in. I'd guess take one out. Did it not act like this before you shimmed? Are you sure everything is back together correctly? Double check your work before you start taking the carbs apart again.

February 18th, 2009, 11:16 PM	#78
grandmaster ninjette.org member Name: Levi Location: St. George, Utah Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250R, CR125R Posts: 191	It idles beautifully just like before. It wasn't like this before I did the shim. Its much better in the top end like i said before, but bottom end suffers greatly. Should I put the snorkle back in and see if that changes anything? Or just take it apart and take one out/put one in, whatever it takes. I am 99% sure all of it is hooked up correctly.

February 18th, 2009, 11:29 PM	#79
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	start with the easiest thing first. putting the snorkel back in isn't as easy as taking it out, but for now you can get it "sorta" in there and then use the results to figure out which way you need to go with the shimming.