Winterizing your 250R?

[ScorpionNinja]

So what myths, facts,etc do all of you know or heard of?

Change oil b4 you put your bike away for the winter?
Or wait till spring and change it before you are gonna take it out for the new season?

Fuel stabil, or just run your bike until the gas tank is bone dry?

these are afew things im not sure of, but have heard varies stories!

Whats yours?

[k-os]

You want your tank full or moisture can build in it and speed up rusting. Fill it all the way up, put in Stabil and run it for a few minutes. I drained the float bowls after that and put it on stands.

[KELPHYN]

Yup. full tank, stabillizer, drain carbs and fresh oil. Don't want motor parts sitting in contaminated oil for 5 months. Then palce on stands and cover with a cotton sheet(keeps frost from collecting on surfaces of bike, a little anal) Real anal people will even put fresh oil in before start up in the spring.

[Talonne]

Originally Posted by k-os

I drained the float bowls after that and put it on stands.

What are float bowls and why should they be drained?

[k-os]

Originally Posted by Talonne

What are float bowls and why should they be drained?

It's a small chamber that holds gas ready to use. As you ride it empties and is automatically re-filled. I drained them because I didn't want the gas to varnish along the walls of the bowl.

[tinng321]

where are the float bowls?
any pics?
this is for future reference.

thanks,
tin

[Momaru]

The float bowls are on the bottom of the carburetors. See Step 2 (first picture) in Vex's DIY on rejetting (http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10640) for an excellent how-to for draining the bowls. Looks like a silver half-cylinder on its side about 2" in diameter, 2" long, with a nipple sticking out below and 3 or 4mm allen screw. There's one for each of the 2 carbs.

I suggest having the bike upright for draining the bowls as using the side stand leaves a bit left in the bottom that won't drain.

[Greg_E]

If they do not already have it, a length of tubing on the drain will let you keep things more clean. Some carbs just have a slotted screw and it drains the fuel all over the place, some have a place to attach tubing and the screw just acts as a valve.

[k-os]

I'm sure if you had the right size tubing you could attach it to the nipple. I just made a little drain with a folded piece of aluminum foil and let it flow into an old soda can.

[kkim]

stay away from Stabil. many had problems last season even though they treated the gas with it prior to winterizing.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...ghlight=stabil

[Talonne]

What other (non-Stabil) fuel stabilizers have people tried and had success with? Especially those in very cold climates... My garage is unheated and we definitely get some -30C days here. I saw this stuff mentioned in the thread kkim linked to:



Also, I need some guidance on what to do with the battery. What's the difference between a trickle charger and a battery tender? How long and how often do you have to charge the battery? I've never used either of those before... Please tell me they're not expensive because we've got 2 bikes to take care of this winter. :P

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Talonne

Also, I need some guidance on what to do with the battery. What's the difference between a trickle charger and a battery tender? How long and how often do you have to charge the battery? I've never used either of those before... Please tell me they're not expensive because we've got 2 bikes to take care of this winter. :P

I use a Battery Tender Jr. It trickle charges a battery when low and knows when the battery is topped off and will shut itself off to prevent overcharging. It then goes into a "maintain" mode and will charge the battery when the battery charge drops a bit while stored.

You leave it plugged in all winter and your battery stays fully charged. The kit comes with a small connector that you can install on your bike that makes plugging/unplugging the charger a breeze.

[divingtigger]

Will Seafoam be ok in our bikes??? Used that stuff in other toys and it doesn wonders.

SO I would have to open 2 drains for the fuel bowls? Can I leave them open all winter or is it better to shut them once they are drained

Thanks

[kkim]

shut them once they are drained.

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Draining_the_carbs

[Greg_E]

Empty tank, then fill with the highest octane you can get. The higher octane pump gas normally has stabilizers in it because they expect it will sit in the tank for longer periods at the fuel station.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Greg_E

Empty tank, then fill with the highest octane you can get. The higher octane pump gas normally has stabilizers in it because they expect it will sit in the tank for longer periods at the fuel station.

First time I've heard that. Source?

[Greg_E]

I'll have to find it. Around here that is definitely true from first hand experience. The premium does not gunk up the carbs over the winter, but the regular is not something you want to leave sitting.

[kkim]

if the gas there has alcohol in it, it doesn't matter what grade you use, it will gunk up if left sitting.

are you sure you're not confusing detergent packages with fuel stabilizers?

[Greg_E]

Yup fairly certain and it may have only been the summer version of the premium. Stations around here sell so little premium grade that it really needs to last when you take on a load.

Of course this might be old too, last time I did anything with premium was at least 10 years ago. I'll take a look and see what I can find a little later.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by kkim

if the gas there has alcohol in it, it doesn't matter what grade you use, it will gunk up if left sitting.

This raises an interesting question.

This thread says fill the tank with stabilized fuel to prevent condensation.

It also says that any fuel with alcohol in it will gunk up over time.

Which are conflicting messages.....

Most fuel these days (all in my area, anyway) has up to 10 percent alcohol in it.

So... is it actually better to drain the tank, and maybe leave the cap open?

Or is the gum problem really of concern only with the carb bowls?

Or will the stabilizer prevent it from gumming up?

Full tank/drained bowls is certainly simpler.

[noche_caliente]

Originally Posted by Talonne

Also, I need some guidance on what to do with the battery. What's the difference between a trickle charger and a battery tender? How long and how often do you have to charge the battery? I've never used either of those before... Please tell me they're not expensive because we've got 2 bikes to take care of this winter. :P

The battery tender jr that kkim and I both have is on sale at motorcycle superstore right now I think... saw an email about it a day or so ago

found it - it was on facebook

Don't you hate when you gear up for a ride, only to find your battery is dead? Never have that problem again! We have battery tenders on sale, starting at $29.99. Don't miss out!
Battery Tender Street Bike Battery Chargers Accessories - Motorcycle Superstore
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...WT.mc_ID=14003

Buy Battery Tender Street Bike Battery Chargers Accessories Online at Motorcycle Superstore

[kkim]

you don't want the gas tank empty. it will rust.

to store for winter-

-change oil and filter.
-fill tank completely with gas treated with a fuel stabilizer. run bike for a bit to make sure the treated gas gets into the fuel line and carbs. the stabilizer is supposed to absorb the water in the gas and prevent the gunking. Stabil does not have a great track record of doing this, contrary to what they claim.
-drain carb bowls.


during storage-
-do not start or run the bike. (it is perfectly okay to sit on it with the engine off and make vroom-vroom noises with your mouth.... I know you will. )
-hook up a battery tender to keep the battery charged.

when taking the bike out of storage-
-drain all gas from tank and refill with fresh gas. use the old treated gas in your car or lawnmower.
-change oil and filter
-make sure gas flows into the carbs
-start bike with your charged battery and go for your long awaited first ride of the season.

Easier is not always better... you should know that.

[Plasmatoast]

original blend of Stabil Does not Work with Ethanol Fuel very Well, they sell a Marine Grade Product that Works much Better (its expensive). All so its not a bad idea to make sure your chain is nice and lubed,

Now what are thoughts on Foggy oil in the pistons.

[Greg_E]

Didn't find anything on the premium gas, so I must have been wrong.

Fogging the cylinders is never a bad idea (in my book), especially if something happens and you end up not being able to run the machine the entire next summer. Sounds like a sin, but stuff happens.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by kkim

to store for winter-
-change oil and filter.

<snip>

during storage-
-do not start or run the bike.

<snip>

when taking the bike out of storage-
-change oil and filter

This begs the question...

Why put a filter in during the pre-storage oil change if all you're going to do is take it out and throw it away in the spring?

Seems a thorough waste to me.

I'll have to see if I can find some of that marine-grade Sta-Bil locally. I have enough of the regular pink stuff to last until Armageddon, unfortunately. Why they sell it in big bottles is beyond me, since it's only good for two years once you open it.

[Sailariel]

Originally Posted by kkim

First time I've heard that. Source?

Heard the same thing from our local independent MC shop. He stores all his bikes with premium fuel. He also adds a stabilizer called "K-100".

[TrueFaith]

Last year I drained the bowls, but I may be a little lazier this winter. There were plenty of days last year that were warm enough to start the bike every 2 weeks or so. I think this year I'll do the usual stuff like an oil change, fill the tank and add stabilizer, put it up on stands and hook up the battery tender. I'm going to leave gas in the carbs this time and start it occasionally. I know a few people who do this every year and haven't had any problems. The winters here lately have been odd, to say the least. I'd like the option of being able to take the bike out at a moment's notice when the weather cooperates.
One thing I will always do is drain the stabilized gas into my car's gas tank in the spring and fill the bike with new fuel. I've had trouble with using Sta-Bil in the past and the sooner that crap is out of my tank the better.

[Sailariel]

The drill I go through in winterizing goes like this: Change the oil and filtre. Fill the tank with premium gas treated with K-100. Using a hemostat (surgical instrument) I pinch off the vacuum hose that opens the fuel petcock, and start the engine. The fuel in the carbs will burn off and the engine will stop for lack of fuel. Remove hemostat. Put the bike on front and rear stands. Plug in Battery Tender. Cover the bike. I am fortunate to have a heated garage. In the Spring, I drain the tank with a transfer pump (a manual one) and put the fuel into the car. Fill with fresh gas, check tyre pressure, and go for a ride. I change the oil and filtre after I have ridden 3000 miles and change oil and filtre every 3000miles thereafter. I lube the chain when I put the bike up for the winter and wipe the chain down in the spring.

[Plasmatoast]

K-100 must work well or have a good Rep, they push it at most of the Mc shops ive been to in maine, Central maine Powersports had a Display with ethanol gasoline treated with various treatments added the K-100 was the least separated... but whos to say how legitimate the test was

K-100
http://www.k100online.com/mm5/mercha...tore_Code=KFTO

Sta-bil (normal and Marine)
http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/products.aspx

Last season i didnt add any stabilizer to my fuel, I drained the Carb bowls and left the tank full, in the spring when I drained the tank it actually Came out separated you could see the difference in the fuel between water/ethanol and the gas.

[Talonne]

A silly question, perhaps, but why is the treated gas from the winterization not good enough for the bike to run on, but ok for a car to run on? I certainly don't want anything bad happening to my bike, but I don't want any ill effects on my car either. :P

[kkim]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Why put a filter in during the pre-storage oil change if all you're going to do is take it out and throw it away in the spring?

you change the oil and filter prior to storage to insure clean oil that will be used to coat the engine internals during storage. used oil contains harsh chemicals/acids that if left in the engine can lead to damage.

you change the oil and filter after storage to to get rid of any water/moisture that builds in the engine during storage. water in the oil can lead to oil breakdown.

may seem a waste to you, but it sounds like cheap insurance to me.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Talonne

why is the treated gas from the winterization not good enough for the bike to run on, but ok for a car to run on?

the gas from the bike will be mixed with the fresh gas you already have in the car, so it won't be running on 100% treated gas.

if you have a hi performance car that takes premium to begin with, forget it. for a daily driver which uses regular that you burn through gas on a daily basis, the treated gas will work fine.

if you use it in the lawn mower, who cares?

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by kkim

you change the oil and filter prior to storage to insure clean oil that will be used to coat the engine internals during storage. used oil contains harsh chemicals/acids that if left in the engine can lead to damage.

you change the oil and filter after storage to to get rid of any water/moisture that builds in the engine during storage. water in the oil can lead to oil breakdown.

may seem a waste to you, but it sounds like cheap insurance to me.

I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't suggesting that the old filter be left in place.

What's wrong with the following?

PRE-STORAGE:

- Warm bike, drain oil, remove old filter and discard.
- Do not put in new filter (use old O-rings to prevent leaks)
- Fill bike with fresh oil.

NEXT SPRING:

- Drain storage oil, insert new filter, fill with fresh oil.
- Spend the money you would have used for the filter on a tank of gas and go ride.

You can even briefly run the bike without a filter just to make sure that the clean storage oil gets to the top end.

The filter is there to trap particles in the engine as oil flows through it during operation. If the engine is not running it serves no purpose, right?

[kkim]

you can do whatever you want to save the cost of a new filter.

[Plasmatoast]

well Winter is Long up here, What about if you forgot to replace the filter. i understand you mean to change the oil in the spring, but you might get a bit anxious to go for a ride,
and you may wish to warm up the oil before changing it. a filters not Expensive just use a Fram for the winter

[tjkamper]

I've never winterized a bike, being as this is the first time I have had one in a cold climate.

I have a charger, but it does not have a maintance mode.

I know it is best to keep the batery charged, but what about just simply disconnecting the batery and letting it run down and recharging in the spring. Is it very detrimental to the life of the batery?

[kkim]

yes, batteries do not like being fully discharged and then recharged. It can greatly affect the lifespan of the battery.

a Battery Tender Jr. is less than $30.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by kkim

you can do whatever you want to save the cost of a new filter.

No offense, just wondering what the rationale is. Your stated reason (to ensure clean oil) doesn't make sense to me because the filter isn't filtering anything if the engine isn't running.

[kkim]

yes, I see your reasoning, but I still wouldn't do the change w/o a filter.

Too many things can go wrong over the winter that might make you need to start the bike. If you wanted to ride the bike due to some freak span of good weather, you would need to drain the oil to reinstall the filter or as has been pointed out, forget completely and ride your filterless bike.

to point out, I've never personally had to winterize a bike (but I did spend a night in a Holiday Inn ) and the info I'm passing on is through years of being on car and motorcycle forums. I just posted what I've learned to be good practice throughout those years and to summarize the points so they would be easy to find for those of you that need to store their bikes for the winter. Take what I have to say with a grain of salt... use it or don't use it. No offence taken.

Also, my list is by no means complete and deals with only the engine portion of winterizing.

Check your owner's manual for what Kawasaki recommends, though I would never follow some of their suggestions based on what I've read of winter storage.

[divingtigger]

Originally Posted by kkim

to point out, I've never personally had to winterize a bike (but I did spend a night in a Holiday Inn ) .

That is too funny, I had a good laught over that.

I was wondering why you were putting lots of tips, just thought that you didn't ride during the cold months....even though your cold months are probably warmer than our hot months this year....what am I saying we did see over 30C for a couple days