turbo / turbocharger / turbocharging

[Liber]

Originally Posted by Lowspeed Lowside

There is a very small minority here who has hands on experience with programming microcontrollers. Drilling holes into a flange, so that the holes match up and you can bolt them together is easy by comparison. If you have your brain in gear, you'll drill the holes first and then do the welding. I'm sure that some people here would call making every mistake "hands-on experience", just because they've learned not to do it anymore.

Also, someone can have years of experience with e.g. hands-on tuning of ignition timing software, but if the crystal used for the timer has a frequency of 32kHz, then at 12000rpm there are only about 30 different settings for the timing (60 with a hardware trick). This is equivalent to a 3% error, because sometimes the computer will initiate early, and sometimes late, depending on the clock skew. In addition there is variability in the spark itself, eventually we're going to be unlucky when the errors done't cancel, the engine will go boom.

Btw, see footnotes of first post.

I think you just enjoy reading your own comments, I've already told you this language means nothing to me.

I should clarify that I meant you seem to lack hands-on experience when it comes to assmbly of mechanical parts and electronics. There's nothing wrong with this, but it stresses my point that you are going to have to learn new skill sets from scratch, and that incurs costs on your free time, which you must have plenty of.

Originally Posted by Lowspeed Lowside

Don't try to learn anything new because it's hard?

Now you're smarter than that. You know perfectly well what I mean. Jack of all trades, master of none, never earned anyone a fortune. Specialization in a few skills is what matters most. To spread yourself thin is to be inefficient.

Originally Posted by Lowspeed Lowside

Not really, I simply like solving puzzles. Turbocharging a
250 has been done, so that's no challenge. So, let's see if we can do it for $1,000. This is much more fun than doing crossword-puzzles where you know that the solution will be published in tomorrow's paper.

Or you have nothing better to do with your day. What exactly are your economic circumstances, if you don't mind me asking?

Originally Posted by Lowspeed Lowside

For a sufficiently rational individual it's not probable but certain. Remember, trying to figure out what to do with your time also involves a cost, we don't need perfect, as good enough will do. There are millions of possible mates to start a family with, but most married couples are happy with what they got (although a good way to stay married is to never tell your spouse that).

No, I agree, you don't need perfect because the market's equilibrium will never be what is perfect for every individual, but it's usually pretty close to perfect for the aggregate.

Btw, applying rationality to relationships is risky business and rarely works in a case by case basis, so I wouldn't recommend using it as an analogy for anything except insanity.

[Lowspeed Lowside]

Originally Posted by Liber

Now you're smarter than that. You know perfectly well what I mean. Jack of all trades, master of none, never earned anyone a fortune.

You mean Leonardo Da Vinci should have stuck to painting women in peculiar moods, because his helicopter with an Archimedes screw and a hand-crank looks like something that was designed by a preschooler? Maybe you're right: It lacks an anti-torque device...

I'm still going to try and I know that I have an edge over Leo, because I don't need to be a master of any trade. In fact, nobody actually needs to be good at something when good enough suffices.

Originally Posted by Liber

I should clarify that I meant you seem to lack hands-on experience when it comes to assmbly of mechanical parts and electronics. There's nothing wrong with this, but it stresses my point that you are going to have to learn new skill sets from scratch, and that incurs costs on your free time, which you must have plenty of.

Why do you think I bought a motorcycle, without knowing the first thing about how to ride it? I enjoy learning new skill sets from scratch. It's what I like to do in my free time.

Originally Posted by Liber

Or you have nothing better to do with your day. What exactly are your economic circumstances, if you don't mind me asking?

For all practical purposes you can assume that I'm poor. Most of my income is earmarked for more margin in a futures trading account.

Originally Posted by Liber

No, I agree, you don't need perfect because the market's equilibrium will never be what is perfect for every individual, but it's usually pretty close to perfect for the aggregate.

The concept of utility lacks a metric, so that your use of the term 'close' is not very meaningful. Maybe you meant something else?

Originally Posted by Liber

Btw, applying rationality to relationships is risky business and rarely works in a case by case basis, so I wouldn't recommend using it as an analogy for anything except insanity.

After 2 billion years of evolutionary optimization, I think we can form the hypothesis that relationships are not just a ridiculous folly of absurd pointlessness in ludicrous craziness.

[Liber]

-Leonardo Da Vinci was an outlier and you know it. He is one of the worst examples of the common human you could have come up with.

-I don't know why you bought a motorcycle? I bought mine because it gets 3 times the gas mileage of my Jeep and I commute 80 miles on good highway. Gas savings alone will pay for the bike in less than 5 years. Acquiring the skill is something I did to save money in the long run. Anything else is a fringe benefit.

Gaining the riding skill comes with a slew of other positive benefits, including but not limited to patience, maintaining reflexes, increasing the incentive to stay in shape, and attracting the attention of the opposite sex.

-You sound more like a scheister than anyone who has a solid grasp on how markets function. Then again, you are a troll so what you act like on here is all smoke and mirrors anyway.

-utility has a metric. It's called money. You are willing to pay X more $ for a marginal increase in enjoyment from whatever source, be it entertainment, sex, drugs, candy etc. There are obvious exceptions, which I'm sure you can find on wikipedia, the troll's best friend. Go ahead and point them out.

-After 2 billion years of evolutionary optimization, we still have to fight disease, cancer, genetic defects, and each other. Humans are far from perfect and are not always rational. No amount of evolution or tweaking by society will make us perfect or completely rational.

I'm trying to help you here but you insist on arguing with anything and everything. You are only helping the argument that you are a troll.

[Racer x]

Originally Posted by Lowspeed Lowside

There is a very small minority here who has hands on experience with programming microcontrollers. Drilling holes into a flange, so that the holes match up and you can bolt them together is easy by comparison. If you have your brain in gear, you'll drill the holes first and then do the welding. I'm sure that some people here would call making every mistake "hands-on experience", just because they've learned not to do it anymore..

Programming microcontrollers is as easy as any other type of programing. You just sit there at your computer. You read some stuff in books do a web search and type. Can't be that hard. I have a computer already.

[bdavison]

Originally Posted by bob138

That is assuming the reaction isn't already going. If the cylinder wall is just about overheated then simply killing ignition won't reset the whole motor. The piston will keep moving (friction) and could be enough to push the cylinder wall over the edge.

Just some food for thought.

Bob

Actually, what he might find when his "blackbox" kills the ignition...and the bike is still going in excess of 100mph..the now rear wheel driven engine will lockup because there's no more oil flow to the transmission. RacerX experienced this on a dyno if I remember correctly.

[Racer x]

Killing the ignition is good but if plugs are glowing and the fuel mixture fires 90 deg BTDC and puts a hole in the stock cast pistons .The metal will blast into the chinese turbo and it will all be junk.That dose not take long to happen. Or the glowing plugs set the fuel on fire coming out of the injector. Like two tiny blow torches .This will cut the heads off the valves like a knife through butter.
I see this every month on engines built by people with real race teams and big budgets.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by bdavison

Actually, what he might find when his "blackbox" kills the ignition...and the bike is still going in excess of 100mph..the now rear wheel driven engine will lockup because there's no more oil flow to the transmission. RacerX experienced this on a dyno if I remember correctly.

Nothing will lock up, the rear wheel continues to spin along with road speed (and the dyno speed); but the lack of lubrication can cause the transmission to no longer be operable afterwards, if the problem was so bad that it damages parts. In Racer X's case, I believe he said that it got so hot that it in fact welded the input shaft to the output shaft, necessitating a complete tear-down.

While it's a possibility, and even happened to someone on this board as listed above, it's a low-chance event. People have been doing coasting races on motorcycles by turning off their engines and racing downhill for decades, with transmission problems afterwards being a very rare event.

[Racer x]

. On the dyno the wheel does not slow down . On the road you will slow down quick without an engine.What happen was the output shaft welded to the fifth gear sprocket.it could lock up I guess. When it happen to me the rear wheel locked up . There was no resistance between the slick tire and smooth drum of the dyno .On the road it would just grind to a stop .Then you would have no neutral.

[Lowspeed Lowside]

Originally Posted by Racer x

Programming microcontrollers is as easy as any other type of programing. You just sit there at your computer. You read somestuff in books do a web search and type. Can't be that hard. I have a computer already.

I know which point you are trying to make here, but I'll bite anyway.

The only step you forgot between 'web search' and 'type' is 'think a lot'. The only problem I see is that you probably lack motivation, maybe because you think that it is so hard that you won't be able to do it, or you prefer getting better at doing something you already know the basics of.

However, if you do have motivation, you don't need books, everything is on the web. You don't have to, but if you have an extra computer (old is good, but not too old) put Linux on it (you'll need another computer with web-access, as you'll get stuck about 20x, ask me how I know). I use Archlinux, but Debian is probably better for the purpose. That simplifies the process a lot, because all tools are free and you have lots of source code to study.

Next you need to familiarize yourself with the GNU programming tools.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_toolchain

Once you're able to edit, compile, link and run a 'Hello World' example using only the command line (this is really pretty straightforward, but a valuable experience), you're ready to look for an IDE that rolls all those steps into one.

There are tons of tutorials out there that cover this, but if you get stuck, send me a PM and I'll be glad to help you out, but I will not and cannot do the learning for you, because that defeats the purpose.

[Racer x]

Since motovation is the issue.I need an ignition system for.a turbocharged 250 Ninja. The BRT Tis system cost 375 dollars and works great. I know how to program that .So why reinvent the wheel? I can now spend 725 dollars on the rest. What is your budget for the ignition system alone?

[TnNinjaGirl]

The turbo is in great condition. I don't intend on selling it.

[Lowspeed Lowside]

Originally Posted by Racer x

Since motovation is the issue.I need an ignition system for.a turbocharged 250 Ninja. The BRT Tis system cost 375 dollars and works great. I know how to program that .So why reinvent the wheel? I can now spend 725 dollars on the rest. What is your budget for the ignition system alone?

We'll probably spend less than $10 for the ignition system.

So, now your probably thinking: B-b-b-b-but you just spent over $200! In which case you obviously haven't considered that we'll definitely need a microcontroller for the fuel injection, but the PIC32 on the USB-Whacker can easily handle the ignition as well, therefore we don't need to budget it twice. We are simply using existing capacity more efficiently. Same reasoning applies to the tablet, not to forget, that one could even make a case that the tablet doesn't count at all.

For the ignition circuit we'll essentially need 2 MOSFETs, 2-4 resistors and 2 diodes, which should total less than $5. Have a look at the following circuit board and the bill of materials here: http://dev.vernonjohnson.net/myPIC32/design.htm On the right side you can clearly see 16 MOSFETs (black thingies with 8 small legs - amplify voltage of the computer 3.3V pin to the voltage from the 12V battery) and 16 diodes (black thingies with 2 large legs - primarily a safety measure to prevent any current from flowing backward, which could damage the electronics). Remember, that board can handle up to 12 cylinders and 24 injectors.

Btw, was the BRT Tis system running when you put a hole into your piston? http://www.sportisimoto-usa.com/ignition.php has no information on what's inside the box, so the first thing you need to do is open it up and take a peek inside. Look at the codes on the individual components and use google to fine out what they do. Just because that thing is programmable doesn't mean it will give you the timing resolution you need, for example, the software may let you program values that a device with a 32Khz crystal will have to round so extremely that at 12000RPM any fine tuning is impossible.

Originally Posted by TnNinjaGirl

The turbo is in great condition. I don't intend on selling it.

OK. Just out of curiosity...did this thread in any way influence your intention not to sell it?

[Racer x]

That is good .then you can get boost retard from the map sensor.
The holed piston has been traced to a clogged fuel jet in the nitrous system. I will have data on both cylinders with 2 wide bandO2 sensors and EGT in each side.all this will read out during a runon my dash and record to my datalogger.

[Racer x]

Combined ignition and fuel systems is the way to go . For my bike I am only going full throttle so I can get away with a pre written ignition map.But for street or track riding you would want the ignition tied to the manifold pressure. Much like the Microsquirt system.

[Lowspeed Lowside]

Originally Posted by Racer x

Combined ignition and fuel systems is the way to go . For my bike I am only going full throttle so I can get away with a pre written ignition map.But for street or track riding you would want the ignition tied to the manifold pressure. Much like the Microsquirt system.

A pre-witten ignition map doesn't come out of nowhere, so the best way to go is to use an adaptive system that can learn how to tune autonomously. All tuning (by hand or other means) follows some algorithm based on measurements, so we might as well have the electronics do it for us. Some global parameters could be set manually, but tuning for max power at full throttle and fuel economy otherwise should actually be sufficient.

The only place a 10" tablet will fit is on top of the steering. I could dremel into the fairings, but in that case it's probably wiser to sell them off and use the proceeds to make my own. A "Lockheed F-117 Nighthawk"-design should be doable for less that $100 in materials (which are not to be included in the budget).

Note to self: quit pulling the trigger early! I could have saved $10.61 and received the item faster. http://www.amazon.com/Zenithink-Touc.../dp/B0041FFJQA is now $152.88 incl. S&H.

[ako]

This thread has been very entertaining to read.

I will bite and ask a serious question - I haven't seen a mention of the cooling system.

You have discussed earlier whether to use a single or double intercooler system.

But what about the water cooling of the engine?

If you double the output of the bike at the rear wheel, you will need to double the heat transfer from the radiator to the air.

Additionally the air to the radiator will be most likely at least partially blocked by either the turbo, intercooler, intercooler piping, or at least the flux capacitor.

You might need to find a radiator with double the thickness and a water pump with double the flow rate. Maybe you could allocate some budget for these too?

Also with the turboed engine running hotter, the engine oil will get hotter. So you probably need an oil cooler as well. But it should ideally not block the path of the air to the intercooler(s) or upsized radiator or be behind or infront of the turbo.

Maybe you could post up some pics of your bike with the additional components superimposed so we can study the packaging geometry.

In addition to the turbo, intercooler(s), potential BOV, upsized radiator, oil cooler, there will need to supply pipes to the turbo for water and/or oil cooling. Custom exhuast manifold most likely 2-1 to the turbo impeller side, and then exit from the turbo I guess into the stock exhaust system which will need to flow approximately double the current amount of exhaust gas. You also need to connect the intercooler(s) to the compressor outlet and then from the intercooler outlet to your tweaked carb. If you could add these pipes to the marked up photos of your current bike it will allow us to discuss.

[Racer x]

I have the radiator already made . It is a budget buster for this project at 425.00 dollars. But needed for a nitrous bike. It has a large resivour on each side and a thick core. The Intercooler will mount below it.and the oil cooler will be behind the radiators upper edge..I also use engine ice as coolant. Last run with nitrous. I got a 209 deg F as a high temp. That dose not even turn on the fan.

The nice thing about racing is I don't need an exhaust . About eight inch from the turbo will do.

All of this cost money and is not part of a 1000 dollar turbo project.

This is a link to the Turbo 250 in Japan. http://youtu.be/9M0jzJOBGZY It is the basic type of system I am planning. But I will have some differences.

[ako]

Originally Posted by Racer x

All of this cost money and is not part of a 1000 dollar turbo project.

Yep. That sounds like a reasonable answer.

One component is 45% of the $1000 budget

[Lowspeed Lowside]

Originally Posted by ako

This thread has been very entertaining to read.

I can tell why.

Originally Posted by ako

I will bite and ask a serious question - I haven't seen a mention of the cooling system.

You have discussed earlier whether to use a single or double intercooler system.

Maybe 33kw are achievable without using an intercooler, so we should try that setup first. But we should do this with the option of adding intercooler later.

Originally Posted by ako

But what about the water cooling of the engine?

If you double the output of the bike at the rear wheel, you will need to double the heat transfer from the radiator to the air.

Additionally the air to the radiator will be most likely at least partially blocked by either the turbo, intercooler, intercooler piping, or at least the flux capacitor.

You might need to find a radiator with double the thickness and a water pump with double the flow rate. Maybe you could allocate some budget for these too?

OK, let's assume we're generating twice the power...

I don't think that engine cooling is going to be a problem as the rest of our bikes is not up to the task of handing a utilization pattern that accompanies a large increase in power. For example, to slow the bike down from 140mph (twice the kinetic energy E=1/2mv^2 compared to 100mph top speed) we'd actually need brakes twice the size, but if you accelerate to 140mph and decelerate to 0mph with stock brakes the engine will have twice the time to cool off during the deceleration phase.

At 140mph we will flow 1.4x the amount of air through the cooler, which reduces the problem to where we get the other 1.4x times additional cooling. In which case we should probably first try to increase the specific heat capacity of the coolant by increasing the water content to e.g. 80%. I anticipate that 99% of the time the turbo will only be used for short 10-20s bursts, so one thing we might not be able to do is using max power going uphill for extended periods of time.

Originally Posted by ako

Also with the turboed engine running hotter, the engine oil will get hotter. So you probably need an oil cooler as well. But it should ideally not block the path of the air to the intercooler(s) or upsized radiator or be behind or infront of the turbo.

I think this really depends on how much boost we'll be running. Keep in mind that some of the heat will escape though the exhaust system as exhaust will be hotter.

Originally Posted by ako

In addition to the turbo, intercooler(s), potential BOV, upsized radiator, oil cooler, there will need to supply pipes to the turbo for water and/or oil cooling.

I hope we'll be able to use silicone piping for all of this.

Originally Posted by ako

Custom exhuast manifold most likely 2-1 to the turbo impeller side, and then exit from the turbo I guess into the stock exhaust system which will need to flow approximately double the current amount of exhaust gas.

Exhaust volume depends on pressure and temperature. For example, at twice the pressure the stock system would flow twice the mass. But, with all those slip-ons and performance exhaust system people have bought, stock mufflers and exhausts should be in excess supply, how about modifying two stock exhaust systems?

[Racer x]

The cooling system is OK because we don't have enough brakes?

[Lowspeed Lowside]

Originally Posted by Racer x

The cooling system is OK because we don't have enough brakes?

Correct.

Without upgrading brakes, suspension, etc. nobody will be able to use the extra power for extended periods of time anyway. For example, the couple of seconds it takes to accelerate to 100mph should be easily handled by the stock cooling system.

To answer your follow-up question:

I don't consider the ability to run my bike in Death Valley on a dyno from 1pm to 4pm at full throttle without the engine overheating a necessity.

[Racer x]

Originally Posted by Lowspeed Lowside

Correct.

Without upgrading brakes, suspension, etc. nobody will be able to use the extra power for extended periods of time anyway. For example, the couple of seconds it takes to accelerate to 100mph should be easily handled by the stock cooling system.

To answer your follow-up question:

I don't consider the ability to run my bike in Death Valley on a dyno from 1pm to 4pm at full throttle without the engine overheating a necessity.

You are only adding 30 hp with a turbo. The 250 Ninja will handle and stop fine with the extra speed .

The track at Maxton is 1 mile of acceleration. I stop with no brakes in less than 1/2mile from 120 no problem . I see turbo bikes blowing coolant in that distance. The track in Maine is 1.5 miles long Bonniville is 5 miles wide open. It is not about over heating .it is about maintaining consistant head temp to prevent detonation..

[Lowspeed Lowside]

Originally Posted by Racer x

You are only adding 30 hp with a turbo. The 250 Ninja will handle and stop fine with the extra speed .

The track at Maxton is 1 mile of acceleration. I stop with no brakes in less than 1/2mile from 120 no problem . I see turbo bikes blowing coolant in that distance. The track in Maine is 1.5 miles long Bonniville is 5 miles wide open. It is not about over heating .it is about maintaining consistant head temp to prevent detonation..

Slapping on a turbo-charger does not magically transform the ninjette into something that is anywhere fit to be raced around a track at constant full power accelerating and breaking. That's what 600cc supersports are for. Off the shelf, they are approximately $4,000 cheaper than a ninja 250r with a $10,000 ignition system upgrade, yet deliver 3x the power and have 4x better brakes, not to mention the appropriate suspension, controls and tires.

If we wanted a motorcycle that can do what a 600cc supersport can do we'd get a 600cc supersport. What we'll get is a ninjette that can pass a truck a little faster.

[Racer x]

So you should not use the turbo for more than a mile ? Why build it?

[Lowspeed Lowside]

Originally Posted by Racer x

So you should not use the turbo for more than a mile ?

We can use the turbo for as long as the monitoring electronics tell us that it will not result in engine damage, which will depend on how much boost we're running.

Originally Posted by Racer x

Why build it?

Your question has already been answered in this post:

Originally Posted by Lowspeed Lowside

What we'll get is a ninjette that can pass a truck a little faster.

But, once I've completed the project I'm willing to race you for the standard quarter mile.

[Racer x]

You have a lot of faith in the electronics.


My bike weighs in at 295 lb . I am looking for 12 seconds in the 1/4 . I Have gone 14 .1 all motor .But now I am lighter and have nitrous.I love drag racing. Let me find my shoes.


We will be racing the mile in Wilmington Ohio all next year. You can come out and take the blown fuel 250-4 record. I set it at 121mph in 2010. You should be able to break that .

[ducducgooseit]

I will volunteer as a set of eyes to review to the software written for the control system. I have written synchronous and asynchronous control software for many years.

[Lowspeed Lowside]

Originally Posted by Racer x

You have a lot of faith in the electronics.

More or less mandated by the budget constraints. For example we can get 4 pressure sensors for $13 incl. S&H[*], because we can have the USB-Whacker do the processing and the tablet do the displaying.

Speaking of tablets, a device branded Zepad just got delivered way ahead of schedule. It has slightly better features than expected, e.g. Android 2.2 and 4GB of flash. Although we'll need neither as we're most likely going to run Linux with our custom motorcycle dashboard software, which together shouldn't require more than a few hundred MB. Ethernet adapter, stylus pen and Sennheiser MX500 earbuds are the included accessories. No cables for the two USB ports, though.

As for appearances, I would have preferred all of the plastic to be black instead of part silver and the home-button makes the up-to-an-inch-wide bezels in landscape view slightly asymmetric, but maybe I'm being a little too picky.

[*]The following IC is good for up to 44psi of pressure: http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/...code=MPXH6300A

[TnNinjaGirl]

This thread keeps getting better and better.

[Lowspeed Lowside]

...I think we should choose the KP35.

• it's cheap: $228.83 shipped.
• it's a little bigger than the other turbos (RHB31, TD02) in question, but according to the compressor map it isn't too big and it would allow us to run over 14psi of boost (needs intercooling, though) without dramatically shortening the lifespan of the turbo.

If anybody here thinks this is definitely the wrong turbo, now is your chance to show that your judgement is better than mine.

Originally Posted by TnNinjaGirl

This thread keeps getting better and better.

If you're not being sarcastic, thanks for the support. Sorry to break the news that I think the turbo you have on your shelf isn't the best choice.

[Racer x]

Given a choice I would go with a smaller turbo.Getting the turbo to spool up seems to be an issue . Limiting boost to 9 psi will save on the intercooler. But if the compressor map is good then it may be a good choice.Can you post up the maps?

[backinthesaddleagain]

Is there even a bike yet? Pictures? Not sketches.

[Lowspeed Lowside]

Originally Posted by Racer x

Given a choice I would go with a smaller turbo.Getting the turbo to spool up seems to be an issue . Limiting boost to 9 psi will save on the intercooler. But if the compressor map is good then it may be a good choice.Can you post up the maps?

From what I've read, smaller turbos are more usable in the lower RPM range, but a larger turbo should work too, if the rider is willing to keep the RPM high.
I figure a larger turbo will simply amplify the idiosyncratic behavior of the stock bike waking up above 9000 RPM.

Link to map was included in my post. Here it is again: KP35 compressor map

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

Is there even a bike yet? Pictures? Not sketches.

Dude, it was stated several times that we are currently in the R&D phase for a project scheduled for the winter season. Taking our bikes apart now without having a complete picture of what components we'll need and how they are going to fit together is a recipe for frustration, so stop pushing.

[greatwhiteninja]

not to sway away from the turbo topic, but since this is a forced induction thread, why not..ive seen some of the bigger bikes running superchargers, didnt even know that was possible on a bike..lol! is a supercharger a possibility on the 250??

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by Lowspeed Lowside

From what I've read, smaller turbos are more usable in the lower RPM range, but a larger turbo should work too, if the rider is willing to keep the RPM high.
I figure a larger turbo will simply amplify the idiosyncratic behavior of the stock bike waking up above 9000 RPM.

Link to map was included in my post. Here it is again: KP35 compressor map



Dude, it was stated several times that we are currently in the R&D phase for a project scheduled for the winter season. Taking our bikes apart now without having a complete picture of what components we'll need and how they are going to fit together is a recipe for frustration, so stop pushing.

So where's the stock bike? Have you ridden it?is there a bike?
Posted via Mobile Device

[ducducgooseit]

This is an interesting thread to read ...

[Racer x]

Superchargin a 250 ninja would be cool. Adding a pully for the belt is not cheap.

[greatwhiteninja]

cheaper or just as costly as a turbo project?

[Racer x]

Cost about the same BUT more custom made engine parts.so if it blows up yopu have to start over.At least with a turbo . Most will be salvagable. Plus there is some power loss with the belt drive. I have a friend building a 4 cylinder. Honda 250 with a blower.

[Racer x]

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

Is there even a bike yet? Pictures? Not sketches.

It is hard to say there is a bike. I have my bike I can turbo. But I am going to start over with a ground up bike. Starting with a ZZR250 frame.then build every piece.Like I have done with my nitrous bike.
Hans is working on a turbo for the stock bike utilizing as much factory parts as possible. Two very different approches. One street bike One race bike. There is no time limit. Hans needs to spend as little money as possible to keep things within a budget.I have no money and race a full schedual .I am using my nitrous bike to sort out problems with adding power. Like the clutch for instance. We are having. Fun with this but things are moving along