Racer X engine build thread

[lgk]

so whats that like $12 a mile

[Racer x]

Yes but I set a record every time I run the bike. So compared to others it's a good deal.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Racer x

So compared to others it's a good deal.

i agree, racing the 250 is pretty cost effective.
it probably costs 5-10x more to set records in a larger bike, or cars.

[Racer x]

I am a tech inspector with the ECTA. I have done bikes for the last couple years. This year I am a car inspector. Do not even ask how much money it takes to run any car fast. The safety stuff like roll bars fire system seat harness systems cost at least 5000 dollars and that is not the motors or the car. Then there is moving the car from dyno to track and back.

Running this bike is very inexpensive. But time consuming.

[tubarney]

Agreed. 12 bucks a mile is cheap as. Worth every penny.

[tubarney]

With your last dyno run. Was your clutch slipping at all?

[Racer x]

Nope. And I had a new one just incase. It's a Barnett carbon fiber clutch and spring set. I got them from Niche cycles supply.
http://www.nichecycle.com/Items.aspx?code=NCS&key=mr

[tubarney]

quick question x. I know you have researched using bigger valves by 1mm. Which valves did you use? Stock or valves from another engine. Or are they custom made?

btw, my head taking longer than i thought. Should be next week.

[Racer x]

If I was goi g to go to bigger valves I would get them custom made.
I dropped off my motor to a pro in 2008. It is almost finished. Be patient.

[tubarney]

Do you think I could run 13.0:1 J&E pistons on pump gas?

I think custom is the way to go too. Got quoted 50-60 bucks per valve which isn't too bad. I'm going to leave it for now but and see how I go.

I found a set of aftermarket oversized valves for the 250 on a japanese website once before. I can't find it now.

Thanks in advance.

[Racer x]

I think you can get away with 13to1 but it would need high test. do you have an ignition controller?

this is some photos of the head porting.

first photo is the stock exhaust port. second is the modified port. And the polished head. I am building this engine for a massive fifty or sixty shot of nitrous. Preignition is my enemy. I removed all the sharp edges from the combustion chamber The exhaust is opened up to allow it all to go out. There is a small ridge in the exhaust port. I think it is to help with the clean air system. I remove it.

The problem is with all this done on my current motor.I did not get any significant power increase with out nitrous. But with nitrous it works better.

[tubarney]

My goal is to break 40hp with a NA, stock displacement engine.

I have programmable brt. I can get good quality 98 RON octane fuel, with octane booster to 100 RON. Do you think this is high enough?

I think the problem with the head the the amount of lift the exhaust valve gets. Not the ports. I measured lift at 0.260 on exhaust. The Daniel Crower Racing cam has 0.335 lift (short duration but) and R&D make a spring kit for the ninja with max lift of 0.340.

I have a beet cam on the way (posted today). I will measure the lift on the exhaust lobe for you.

[Racer x]

Good luck . Start a thread on it. Call it the 40 hp barrier. Or something. I am dying to try out the Takai coils. I think the stock coils have held me back for a while. The engine would never go past 12000 in sixth gear. And never went above 34 hp. Watching it on the dyno. It nosed over at 12000 and acted just like it did when I tried e 85. Good Idle great power snappy throttle response but top end has flattened out around the same level. And I have had compression levels to 13.5 to one a up to 118 octane fuel. Nothing seems to change. But the coils are the only thing on the bike that is stock. I really am cursors about this.

[tubarney]

"40 hp barrier", I might steal that one.

I can't wait to see these coils perform too. I think they will do big things to engine performance. Only 4 variables. Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow. So its pretty important in a high performance engine at 11 000 rpm in 6th gear.

Biggest thing with ignition is spark duration and how many degrees of crankshaft rotation you get. I doubt the stock system is doing much to help you there.

An interesting side note. I found a sticker on my brt (received today). Maybe this means stock coils output 40k.

[Racer x]

Suck squeeze bang and blow are the four basics. But between each event there is a surprising stuff going on. Like resonance cam over lap and savaging. All black magic stuff that makes power.

[tubarney]

Prob a good idea to get the basics right first. Then worry about the magical stuff. Like you said its the only thing on the bike that is stock.

I know you said your cams are retarded, but have you tried a more aggressive cam? May give you the extra power to get that extra 500 rpm in 6th. When you getting this custom grind?

[Racer x]

The 265cc engines I build have stock cams and stock timing. The current engine I am building will have a slight retard to the exhaust cam.

The 249cc engine I am having built by a pro is having cams made at megacycle. I don't know the specs. First they increase duration ten lift.

[mgentz]

Originally Posted by tubarney

My goal is to break 40hp with a NA, stock displacement engine.

I have programmable brt. I can get good quality 98 RON octane fuel, with octane booster to 100 RON. Do you think this is high enough?

I think the problem with the head the the amount of lift the exhaust valve gets. Not the ports. I measured lift at 0.260 on exhaust. The Daniel Crower Racing cam has 0.335 lift (short duration but) and R&D make a spring kit for the ninja with max lift of 0.340.

I have a beet cam on the way (posted today). I will measure the lift on the exhaust lobe for you.

we have two cams, 1 ex 1 in. I thought the BEET was for intake only? DO they include both?

[tubarney]

Originally Posted by Racer x

The 265cc engines I build have stock cams and stock timing. The current engine I am building will have a slight retard to the exhaust cam.

The 249cc engine I am having built by a pro is having cams made at megacycle. I don't know the specs. First they increase duration ten lift.

Your building so many engines I lose track of whats going on.

Have you had any experience with Wiseco pistons? J&E say that the 13.0:1 will need race gas.

I didn't think it was possible to increase duration with a custom grind.

[Racer x]

I got the engine down and it looks great.

this engine was just built to test the nitrous. I hoped it would make two runs that was all I wanted.

The engine delivered six land speed records. top nitrous speed was 123. The top no nitrous speed was 109.5

plus dyno tuning to get 50 hp took sixty plus pulls. and i did a lot of exhaust testing and carb tuning.

I have a little clean up to do on the valves. The rest I will put back together. I have the head I was working on ready to go. So as soon as my shoulder heals from rotator cuff surgery I will be running.

this is what it looks like right now

[Racer x]

more photos

[Racer x]

i managed to get the top end together.Now It s just a couple days till Its running.

[tubarney]

Have you run it down the mile since you did your last dyno run? When are you going to be breaking this record again?

That copper gasket looks a lot like rust in the photo. Had me thinking wtf for a second before I put 2 and 2 together.

[Racer x]

I ran it in April. But the weather was cold. I made a bad run on the first pass. No nitrous and burned a plug. That messed up the valve sealing on one piston. So I went home.

I just had shoulder surgery. So I won't be racing until September.

[Racer x]

OK its done,
I installed two intake cams. I ran a quick cold no oil compression test and it went to 180 in an couple cranks, I will run it this weekend,

[cuong-nutz]

can't wait on to hear the verdict on the intake cam's performance

[Racer x]

I got the engine running tonight.
This is a stock bottom end with 265cc 4mm over bore.
I have a Brt iginition system and Takai coils.
Ngk Cr10E plugs
CR specials 31 mm carbs
The head is the one done earlier in this thread. Ported and polished. Not much done to it.
The exhaust is a home made two into two system.
also I installed an intake cam on the exhaust side. I am running two intake cams

The Engine started up easy and sounds wicked, I can hear a difference in the way the engine revs, AND the EGT is running very close temperatures cylinder to cylinder. And about 150 deg hotter than before. I have got to get this on the dyno.

http://youtu.be/ff9aggwoDAE

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I got the engine running tonight.
This is a stock bottom end with 265cc 4mm over bore.
I have a Brt iginition system and Takai coils.
Ngk Cr10E plugs
CR specials 31 mm carbs
The head is the one done earlier in this thread. Ported and polished. Not much done to it.
The exhaust is a home made two into two system.
also I installed an intake cam on the exhaust side. I am running two intake cams

The Engine started up easy and sounds wicked, I can hear a difference in the way the engine revs, AND the EGT is running very close temperatures cylinder to cylinder. And about 150 deg hotter than before. I have got to get this on the dyno.

http://youtu.be/ff9aggwoDAE

Sounds bloody wicked!

[choneofakind]

HOLY CRAP Eric!!! That thing revs up so fast!

[Racer x]

The sound is sick. I can hear the difference the cam has made . I was just giving it a little blip. Shoulder surgery sucks. I wanna race.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

HOLY CRAP Eric!!! That thing revs up so fast!

High compression helps

[Racer x]

I always have between 12.5 to 13.75 to 1. This motor is 12.5 to 1. It never had this sound or rev that quick. I hope it does not fall flat when it gets going. That is why the dyno is critical. I made no other changes to this motor except trading the exhaust cam for an intake cam.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I always have between 12.5 to 13.75 to 1. This motor is 12.5 to 1. It never had this sound or rev that quick. I hope it does not fall flat when it gets going. That is why the dyno is critical. I made no other changes to this motor except trading the exhaust cam for an intake cam.

it might be the intake cam has higher lift than the standard exhaust so the intake pull is more effected by the exhaust resonance.

[Racer x]

I dont know what it will do. But i know it is opening a can of worms. I hope it will help with nitrous.

[mgentz]

To note: the grind on web cams intake and exhaust is exactly the same. They told me that it would not matter which I kind installed where.

[lgk]

So you're advising me to swap out my exhaust cam?

[choneofakind]

That's what I'm hearing

[tubarney]

Holy sh** that thing is crazy. Get it on the dyno!

Just goes to show how much Kawasaki had to choke the engine up in order to meet the EPA restrictions. If making the exhaust valves smaller wasn't enough, they even had to take a fair bit of lift out of the exhaust cam. 1mm is a lot. Thats like 12.5%.

I'm glad I wasn't just tripping about my cams. I spent a whole day trying to figure out if they were different. Including figuring out what was different about the stocks. Turns out, not much.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

That's what I'm hearing

I'll do it on my next valve adjustment interval.

Looks like a cheap way to pick up a couple of hp, and improve throttle response.

[tubarney]

what size and type of washer do you use to index your spark plugs? Do you use the same type of washer that is on them or can I just use a regular one.