August 22nd, 2014, 04:12 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Derek
Location: Boynton Beach
Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 08 cbr1000rr, 2008 + 2012 ninja 250, 06 zx6r (636!) track only Posts: 150
|
To those with a 250 and a 600/1000, hows the front braking power?
I feel that the front braking power of the 250 is not in a 70/30 90/10 etc ratio that we are lead to believe. I feel like I always need to add rear brake. Does anyone else feel this way on their 250 that has ridden other bikes? I don't think my front brakes are bad they aren't spongy or anything new fluid less than 6 months ago.
__________________________________________________
http://www.1000rr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=90412 http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/ http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1209877267 |
|
August 22nd, 2014, 04:17 PM | #2 |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16
|
For regular street riding, I only use the front brake of my 2007 Ninja 250.
I practice emergency braking regularly, again, only using the front brake.
__________________________________________________
Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
|
August 22nd, 2014, 04:28 PM | #3 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
|
Something may be not right, my braking feel on a 250 is damn near that on a my r6. Both crazy late and hard, enough to raise the rear. Rotor glazed? How is your brake line? Still stock? And no, I aint talkin' bout endos and stunts, this is straight up corner entry braking.
__________________________________________________
Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. |
August 22nd, 2014, 04:40 PM | #4 |
Participant
Name: Dave
Location: South of Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2012 Motorcycle(s): '94 K75 std Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Aug '15
|
Pre-gen Ninjette brakes are adequate.
My BMW K75 std (750cc old man bike with stock Brembo calipers) has much more responsive, better feeling, better stopping brakes. KLR250 brakes are not as good as Ninjette brakes. |
|
August 22nd, 2014, 05:25 PM | #5 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
|
my front brake on the street bike if AWFUL!!!!! Stainless lines and Galfer pads on the track bike are better but still not great. At the end of a session there is a decent bit of wasted movement at the lever. Its been bled 900 times, rotor cleaned, pads bedded. There is just a bit of slot between the master and caliper flex. I feels NOTHING like my 6R setup in terms of precision. Maybe you got a Wednesday master and I got a Friday master Chris, or the R6 bits are not as good as the 6Rs (could be cause they are VERY good). Outright stopping power is decent though, as is bite once upgraded.
__________________________________________________
Keep it rubber side down and enjoy the ride Get healthy - Get Fit - Change Your Life Click Here Or PM Me To Find More - Advocare |
|
August 22nd, 2014, 05:29 PM | #6 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
|
Neil, I am a freak about break feel. You almost have to be in order to have "real" confidence in your stopping power. Let's face it, deep down... your not gunna feel all that good about ridin' beyond your ability to stop.
My pregen brakes really sucked when I first got it, I kept at it until I liked what I felt. I recommend everyone else do the same. Even if you have to replace the whole lot. My brakes are Friday!
__________________________________________________
Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. |
August 22nd, 2014, 05:34 PM | #7 | |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
Its not necessarily applicable to this thread (if they are that bad then there is likely an issue), but if you have a stock master/caliper and it feels as good as a modern 600 setup ...... I wanna know your secret lol
__________________________________________________
Keep it rubber side down and enjoy the ride Get healthy - Get Fit - Change Your Life Click Here Or PM Me To Find More - Advocare |
|
|
August 22nd, 2014, 05:35 PM | #8 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
|
I am running stock stuff aside of lines and pads, I feel ya about da rulez.
A rubber hose and a 20oz mt dew bottle.
__________________________________________________
Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
|
August 22nd, 2014, 05:36 PM | #9 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
|
__________________________________________________
Keep it rubber side down and enjoy the ride Get healthy - Get Fit - Change Your Life Click Here Or PM Me To Find More - Advocare |
2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. |
August 22nd, 2014, 07:12 PM | #10 |
ran when parked
Name: Katie
Location: DC/MD
Join Date: Aug 2013 Motorcycle(s): Freeride 250R, KLX250SF, mopeds Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '17, Dec '14
|
My 99 250 had front Galfer rotor and Galfer semi metallic brake pads.... braked like a champ, no issues. It's not the sharpest, smoothest, most stunningly effective brake but it WILL stop the bike quick. my 03 SV650 brakes even better up front with dual rotors and fresh fluid and stainless steel lines.. almost too much brake! very even, smooth, and effective...
But when I got my SV the brake sucked. It took a lot of pull to get the brake to bite, and when it did, it was in stages. I flushed and replaced the fluid which helped but then a couple weeks later it started feeling crappy again, so I worried there was an air leak in the lines.. but then I put some lube in the brake lever pivot and it made a HUGE difference. Since then I've had awesome brakes, sometimes I brake hard coming up to a stoplight just cause it feels so good to stop so effectively lolol Try lubing that brake lever... I do use my rear brake just out of habit and mostly lightly when coming to a stop at lights or whatever. definitely use it a lot while turning slowly in parking lots too. It aint there for no reason! |
|
August 22nd, 2014, 07:38 PM | #11 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: W
Location: Austin, TX
Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250R (sold), 2012 Tuono V4R Posts: 512
|
When I had my 250, I put in stainless steel lines both in the front and in the rear at about 5000 miles or so when I was replacing the brake pads. Now going to my liter bike, I feel that the rear brake has about the same amount of stopping power as my 250 with the stainless steel lines. The only big difference is since my literbike is at least 150lbs heavier in wet weight, it's not as effective.
The front brakes, on the other hand, are a monster. Having adjustable levers for feel is a must with bigger bikes.
__________________________________________________
2010 Kawasaki Ninja 250R - "Aria" (sold) 2012 Aprilia Tuono V4R - "Perrine" Proof that Harleys and Ninjettes are friendly with each other |
|
August 22nd, 2014, 08:06 PM | #12 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Derek
Location: Boynton Beach
Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 08 cbr1000rr, 2008 + 2012 ninja 250, 06 zx6r (636!) track only Posts: 150
|
That may be part of the problem, both my 636 and 1k have aftermarket lines as well lol.
__________________________________________________
http://www.1000rr.net/forums/showthread.php?t=90412 http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/ http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1209877267 |
|
August 22nd, 2014, 08:28 PM | #13 |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
Location: Towson, MD
Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Mar '14
|
I'm about to attempt this method
let's hope it works out new pads and finally switching to my SS brake lines on my 300 with new fluid
__________________________________________________
I see you over there seeing me, do you see the me I think you see? |
|
August 22nd, 2014, 08:30 PM | #14 | |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
Location: Towson, MD
Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Mar '14
|
Quote:
I have been surprised multiple times on track how well that thing brakes, the r6 felt similar except with more outright stopping power
__________________________________________________
I see you over there seeing me, do you see the me I think you see? |
|
|
August 22nd, 2014, 08:31 PM | #15 |
ran when parked
Name: Katie
Location: DC/MD
Join Date: Aug 2013 Motorcycle(s): Freeride 250R, KLX250SF, mopeds Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '17, Dec '14
|
I don't 'feel' the SS brake lines. Supposedly they only matter under very hard braking where rubber would expand or flex a little and absorb some of the braking power. But I don't know too much about it but I don't think it's true that SS brake lines increase braking power under all levels of braking more than rubber lines do, only hard braking.
|
|
August 22nd, 2014, 08:33 PM | #16 | |
ran when parked
Name: Katie
Location: DC/MD
Join Date: Aug 2013 Motorcycle(s): Freeride 250R, KLX250SF, mopeds Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '17, Dec '14
|
Quote:
|
|
|
August 22nd, 2014, 08:37 PM | #17 | ||
Private Joker
Name: Ben
Location: Towson, MD
Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Mar '14
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________________________________________
I see you over there seeing me, do you see the me I think you see? |
||
|
August 23rd, 2014, 02:15 AM | #18 |
Certified Troublemaker
Name: Teri
Location: Hamilton, NJ
Join Date: Oct 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250r "Pikachu", 2017 Ninja 650 "Epona" Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Aug '13, Aug '14, Feb '17
|
After putting SS lines on the 300 I think they feel much better.
I still have the stock pads and rotor. My braking confidence has improved with the stopping power. I think SS lines will be on of the first mods I do on any future bikes.
__________________________________________________
Raven's Rejuvenation A bruise is a lesson... and each lesson makes us better... |
|
August 23rd, 2014, 05:10 AM | #19 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: .
Location: .
Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14
|
I think I need to go wrap some threading in teflon tape, because my brake lever isn't as firm as Chris's. I've got lever envy! The feel is good. The response is good. But it's just not... firm. It also got worse with heavy use. Screams to me water in the fluid or a system that isn't tight.
hmmmmmm. |
|
August 23rd, 2014, 05:44 AM | #20 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16
|
Quote:
The spring effect of the rubber hose does not absorb braking power. Braking power depends only on the hand force that is applied to the lever and the actual coefficient of friction between the pads and the disc. Old braking mechanisms were a direct connection, via a steel rod or Bowden cable and secondary levers, to the braking pads. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowden_cable http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_law All the modern hydraulic systems do is replacing that steel rod or cable and cumbersome levers, so a straight run between lever/pedal and pads' pivot is not longer needed. The spring effect of rubber hoses is equivalent to inserting a strong spring in that old steel rod: the initial muscular effort will be used to expand the spring/rubber hose, introducing some spongy or non-linear feedback, but at the end, all the force of your hand/foot is reaching those pads.
__________________________________________________
Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
|
|
August 23rd, 2014, 06:43 AM | #21 | |
Certified Troublemaker
Name: Teri
Location: Hamilton, NJ
Join Date: Oct 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250r "Pikachu", 2017 Ninja 650 "Epona" Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Aug '13, Aug '14, Feb '17
|
Quote:
__________________________________________________
Raven's Rejuvenation A bruise is a lesson... and each lesson makes us better... |
|
|
August 23rd, 2014, 07:17 AM | #22 | |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
|
Quote:
Now you know one of the little secrets to how I brake the way I do. I simply have 100% faith and confidence in my braking system. If you liked how it felt in the paddock, you should feel it while out there riding. And don't forget... that is even with those 99.9% spent pads on there.
__________________________________________________
Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
|
|
August 23rd, 2014, 08:21 AM | #23 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: .
Location: .
Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14
|
Dude.... Those pads. Hahahaha
|
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
August 23rd, 2014, 09:15 AM | #24 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
|
__________________________________________________
Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
|
August 23rd, 2014, 09:16 AM | #25 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
|
@Runeknight95 - sorry to kinda jack your thread. So how you doin' with yours?
__________________________________________________
Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
|
August 23rd, 2014, 10:47 AM | #26 |
ninjette.org member
Name: John
Location: Australia
Join Date: Feb 2014 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 Posts: 48
|
I jump on my 300 about once a month for track days. I panic every time at the start because it feels like the front brake isn't working at all
You just have to squeeze a shitload harder on the 300 compared to my 600. That said, braking power is still adequate. Only "mods" are brake lines and EBC HH pads. About the same braking power as stock but waaay less brake fade. |
|
August 23rd, 2014, 06:15 PM | #27 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
|
__________________________________________________
Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
August 23rd, 2014, 09:39 PM | #29 |
Private Joker
Name: Ben
Location: Towson, MD
Join Date: Nov 2012 Motorcycle(s): '99/'01 Ninja 250 "sketchy", '13 Ninja 300 "yoshi", '03 GSXR 600 "merlin" Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Mar '14
|
those look almost as bad as the first set of pads from my N300
...if only I had taken a picture :/ due to lack of photographic evidence I defer to your efficient use of brake pads
__________________________________________________
I see you over there seeing me, do you see the me I think you see? |
|
August 25th, 2014, 06:06 AM | #30 |
Old and slow
Name: Lohman
Location: Aiken, S.C.
Join Date: May 2014 Motorcycle(s): Suzuki TL1000R, Honda CBR600F3, Ninja 250 Posts: 889
|
Got all 3.
Understand that the 250 is a single side duel pot. the CBR600F3 are dual side dual pot. and the TLR is a dual side 310mm rotor, 6 pot calipers. The 600 and the 1000 will lift the rear with two fingers on the lever. here is a little trick that may help. the night before you are going to bleed/replace your brakes... Tie a bandanna or zip tie around your lever, or put something heavy on the peddle. the idea here is to place the system under pressure for an extended period of time (over night) what this does is force any moisture, or small air pockets into the brake fluid... the next day, when you do the bleed/change... all the "badness" goes out with the used fluid and the system is as clean and moisture free as it can be. this also works on "soft" brakes even with out a replacement, tie it up, should be good and grabby in the morning. Prepping the bike for a rear brake change |
|
August 25th, 2014, 06:41 AM | #31 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
I do the zip tie wrap periodically on my bikes as well. Sometimes it helps, sometimes not so much. But its easy enough to do and well worth the effort.
__________________________________________________
Keep it rubber side down and enjoy the ride Get healthy - Get Fit - Change Your Life Click Here Or PM Me To Find More - Advocare |
|
August 25th, 2014, 06:47 AM | #32 |
motorcycle rider
Name: Bruce
Location: Victoria, BC
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '14 Yamaha V-Star 650 Custom (silver) Posts: A lot.
|
I've rode quite a few bikes. In comparison, the stock brakes of the newer 250 are okay; not too weak, not too strong. The bike is fairly small and light, so that helps.
If I have any complaint, it's that the brakes don't have great 'feel', even with fresh fluid and pads. They grab okay, but you just don't get the same feedback as on other brakes. Things feel a bit 'dull'.
__________________________________________________
'14 Yamaha V-Star 650 Custom (silver) |
|
August 25th, 2014, 07:33 AM | #33 | |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
__________________________________________________
Keep it rubber side down and enjoy the ride Get healthy - Get Fit - Change Your Life Click Here Or PM Me To Find More - Advocare |
|
|
August 25th, 2014, 08:25 AM | #34 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Alan
Location: Gwinnett County, GA
Join Date: Jul 2014 Motorcycle(s): 04 Ninja 250 Posts: 42
|
|
|
August 25th, 2014, 09:05 AM | #35 |
Cat herder
Name: Gort
Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): Aprilia RS660 Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 6
MOTM - Jul '18, Nov '16, Aug '14, May '13
|
Because the rear brake doesn't do all that much when you're braking really hard. Even under optimal (i.e. non-emergency) conditions. something like 70% of your braking force comes from the front.
In an emergency braking situation, there is very little (or even no) weight on the rear wheel. A small misjudgment could cause the wheel to lock, which could then lead to a highside once it regains traction. Careful modulation of the rear brake can avoid a lock and also avoid a highside, but remember this is an emergency scenario. Few riders have the presence of mind to carefully control rear brake pressure in such a situation.
__________________________________________________
I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12 Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est. Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem. |
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
August 25th, 2014, 09:27 AM | #36 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '15
|
Are the 250R brakes Radial or non Radial? I know my ZX6R and S1000RR both have radial brakes. but for some reason i am thinking the 250R does not.
|
|
August 25th, 2014, 09:39 AM | #37 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
|
not radial mounted calipers on the ninjette
__________________________________________________
Keep it rubber side down and enjoy the ride Get healthy - Get Fit - Change Your Life Click Here Or PM Me To Find More - Advocare |
|
August 25th, 2014, 09:40 AM | #38 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
|
also
not radial master either
__________________________________________________
Keep it rubber side down and enjoy the ride Get healthy - Get Fit - Change Your Life Click Here Or PM Me To Find More - Advocare |
|
August 25th, 2014, 09:55 AM | #39 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Mark
Location: Portland
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): Cheap Italian Suit. Otherwise known as Dew Kitty Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
|
|
|
August 25th, 2014, 09:55 AM | #40 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Mark
Location: Portland
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): Cheap Italian Suit. Otherwise known as Dew Kitty Posts: A lot.
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Braking power at different speeds? | Miles_Prower | Riding Skills | 3 | July 5th, 2012 02:47 PM |
Losing braking power | randomwalk101 | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 21 | December 25th, 2011 10:11 AM |
1000 vs 600 | CC Cowboy | General Motorcycling Discussion | 29 | December 31st, 2010 01:16 PM |
600 vs 1000 | Apex | General Motorcycling Discussion | 79 | June 5th, 2010 06:10 PM |
[sportrider - latest stories] - Late Braking: Michelin Power Pure | Ninjette Newsbot | Motorcycling News | 0 | May 20th, 2010 06:40 PM |
|
|