2007 or Newer? [Trade-offs]

[Frank06]

Hi Everyone,

I'm thinking of picking one of these little bikes up. From what I know, the newer bikes use 17" wheels but weigh a bit more than the older ones. There seem to be more older (do you call these 2nd generation or ?) available around here. I'd appreciate any thoughts or opinions. I would ride it on the street a bit but would ultimately do some land speed racing with it.

Thanks!

Frank

[VaFish]

Well for the land speed racing, talk to @RacerX.

The 1988-2007 bikes are often referred to as Pregen's.

I like the Pregens because they are generally much cheaper than the later models and great little bikes.

[Frank06]

Yeah, thanks. I'm reading his turbo build thread right now. Lots to learn about these things!

[Triple Jim]

Hi Frank! Funny to see you here, but your name, location and LSR post gave you away. I wish I knew more about which version is better for your application, but all I have experience with is the '05 I bought last year. I got it to have something for my daughter to ride, but I have more miles on it than she does. I'll be watching your threads with great interest!

(old friends from the Kaw triples forum)

[spent_too_much]

The pre-gens are plentiful, can be inexpensive, and if you like to tinker, parts are readily available.

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

In addition to the updated looks, the NewGen also has 17" wheels, slightly bigger forks, and more realistic (though still not ideal) spring rates.

The NewGen's 17" wheels offer more tire options, the bigger forks support some aftermarket products that are available now, and the springs at least fall into the range of soft but usable. For me, the appearance is the biggest thing.

I think for an average rider, the NewGen will make life a little easier, but a PreGen will be a little cheaper. For something specialized like LSR, I'd have to look more into the details of it and the bikes. I know there were some minor tuning changes made over the years - a certain vintage might be best for your specific needs. Depending on what changes are allowed by the rules, a certain year/gen might be best - lightest, with certain features stock, etc.

While there's definitely tons of info here (and even some LSR knowledge), I think this is quite different from what the average rider is looking for in a street bike. Things that matter a lot here might not even register over there, and vice versa.

Paging @Racer x (since VaFish's mention didn't take)

[Frank06]

Hi Jim!

Small world, isn't it?! One of the east coast racers has one of these and has a ton of records up at Loring. BTW, I ran 201/206 on my E_Busa over Labor Day weekend. I think I have the widest speed disparity in one season: 77 mph on my RD125 -> 206 with the electric.

My understanding is that the pregens have a bit more power but the later models have a bit more torque. It does seem that the 17" wheels with better tire choices might be an advantage.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by Frank06

Hi Jim!

Small world, isn't it?! One of the east coast racers has one of these and has a ton of records up at Loring. BTW, I ran 201/206 on my E_Busa over Labor Day weekend. I think I have the widest speed disparity in one season: 77 mph on my RD125 -> 206 with the electric.

My understanding is that the pregens have a bit more power but the later models have a bit more torque. It does seem that the 17" wheels with better tire choices might be an advantage.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Welcome Frank.

Congrats on the 200+. Got some pix and info about your E Busa you can share? Sounds really interesting. Feel free to start a thread about it in the Ex-Ninjetters Lair section if you like.

77 isn't bad for the little RD 125 as well. I've got a modded 75cc Derbi that might be a good challenger.

[CrazyCanuckGoat]

I had a 2001 ZZR version (17" wheels) and now a 2012.

The 01 suspension was softer for touring, but the 12 is stiffer and corners better.

Fuel mileage was about the same for both.

Brakes both feel the same for stopping power.

The 01 definately had more topend as I spend most of my time on the highway. The 12 has more mid range, but runs out of steam quicker at speed.

I could feel the weight difference between the 2 bikes at a stand still.

01 seat was comfier, but I still just did a 1100 km ride on the 12 with an extra cushion on the seat.

If you are mechanically inclined, the older motors had adjustable rockers for adjusting valve lash, new ones, shims.

Any of the above can be corrected/improved with aftermarket parts. If you have mod restrictions for land speed racing, I would pick a pregen just for more topend grunt. Otherwise, it just depends on what's available for your area.

[Frank06]

(thanks)

Here's a story from dragbike:

http://www.dragbike.com/lta-electric...reaks-200-mph/

BTW, the shot of me talking with another guy on his bike is the EX250 I mentioned earlier.

[Triple Jim]

Amazing, Frank, and congratulations! I'd love to hear a few details about things like real-world range and the cost of the parts to power it.

[JohnnyBravo]

300 all day every day

Congrats on making the 200 mph club

[Racer x]

Hi Frank
I guess you would be racing with the Loting timing Assocation. The Loring Maine track is the big 1.5 mile track and you will have a lot of fun
Bottom line. Pregen is faster new gen has mor potential.

I would first get a rule book. Then you should think long and hard about land speed racing. Once you pick it up you will never put it down. It can be very addictive and change your life. Be very careful. You have been warned

Now if you want to ride on the street and use you bike for LSR then maybe production is a good place to start
Just buy a bike and get it through tech and race. After that you can go any direction.

By the way
Greg Neal TLN racing has a 250 ninja. I personally did some of the tuning work and have been very good friends with Greg for many years. That bike went an astounding 116 mph on a basicly stock engine .

[Frank06]

Thanks for your comments. I've been involved with the LTA since 2009 as bike tech and timer and have made many passes on a bunch of different bikes. I know Greg too as he races up here a lot (as you well know)!

I've had the same impression about the pregens vs. newgens and am just keeping an eye out for a bike that makes sense locally.

[Frank06]

Speaking of pregens... I've noticed that some bikes (2004?) have two mufflers and some seem to have one. Did Kawasaki change this or am I just seeing years of modifications start to show up? I've seen several pics of the '04's with twin mufflers... just curious.

[Z1R rider]

Originally Posted by Frank06

Speaking of pregens... I've noticed that some bikes (2004?) have two mufflers and some seem to have one. Did Kawasaki change this or am I just seeing years of modifications start to show up? I've seen several pics of the '04's with twin mufflers... just curious.

All US model pre-gens have two mufflers I beleive, new-gen (2008 and newer) are single.

[VaFish]

Stock pregen should have 2 mufflers, if it only has 1 it is an aftermarket exhaust system.

[Frank06]

Thanks guys.

[Frank06]

Originally Posted by VaFish

Stock pregen should have 2 mufflers, if it only has 1 it is an aftermarket exhaust system.

Does a 2:1 aftermarket system give up much mid-range compared to the OEM exhaust (assuming it's properly jetted)? I've had bikes where the single best mod was returning it to stock exhaust. I know these things aren't exactly earth movers anyway but...

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by Frank06

Does a 2:1 aftermarket system give up much mid-range compared to the OEM exhaust (assuming it's properly jetted)? I've had bikes where the single best mod was returning it to stock exhaust. I know these things aren't exactly earth movers anyway but...

Frank,

I really don't know. All of my Ninjettes have stock exhaust on them. For me the cost benefit analysis of putting a full exhaust system on the bike just isn't there. I'm not racing, just riding on the street, so the little bit of horsepower gain by adding the exhaust just really isn't worth it to me. If I really want to go faster that money would be better spent on a bigger bike.

For someone like yourself that wants to race in a 250cc class, then mods like a full exhaust might make sense.